quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
This is exactly the stuff that drives people away. This policy change had to be in the works for a long time, so UD shouldn't have taken your order a month ago and then go and spring it on you now.

If UD had refused to take Ed's order a month ago, someone would have had to explain to him the reason why. UD wasn't ready to unveil the new program then. The best option would have been to allow all current pre-orders to go through up to a specified date, then institute the policy.

I think this is program is going to fail. My parents owned a manufacturing plant in the 1980s and 90s. They had a decent distribution system, but decided to tinker with it, resulting in fewer distributors. Sales fell and, eventually, my parents decided to close the business and retire. The moral of the story is that every distributor and dealer acts as a salesperson for a company. They advertise or talk-up the products. The more entities that sell the goods, the more goods you will sell. Reducing that number just doesn't make sense.

Besides, collectors will scream when they can't find the products they want at decent prices (since the new system will most definitely result in higher prices). It won't drive sales -- it will make collectors lose interest in UD cards when they can't get them through their usual sources.

Just to echo some of Batman's observations about comic book/card stores here in NJ.

I have noticed that in the past 5 years, several large stores that were in existence since the 1990s have closed their doors.

Very, very few stores that I have been to over the past 10 years carry non-sports cards. Maybe a box of a major release on the counter, but that's about it. Usually a Topps product. Very rare to see anything by Rittenhouse or anyone else. I rarely saw Inkworks products, either (when they were still around).

Even back in the 1990s, the stores charged about twice as much for packs and boxes as what you could get from dealers and at shows.

Part of the problem I see is that you have a generation now that has grown up buying almost everything on the internet. I don't think a lot of them will even look for a brick and mortar store to get what they want. Many of the ones who do look won't find it. I can't name one store in Birmingham that stocks non-sport cards. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't one in Alabama.

quote:

Even back in the 1990s, the stores charged about twice as much for packs and boxes as what you could get from dealers and at shows.

That's another problem. If they have to buy through Diamond, which is where most comic shops would get them, the cost is very high. Collectors who are used to internet prices are going to get serious sticker shock.

I remember back in 1994-95, going to a comic store near where I went to college where they would charge about $ 85 a box for a new non-sport release, when my dealer or a store in New York City that I would also go to, would charge around $ 55. And this was pre-ebay.

Over the years, I have often wondered if comic stores in NJ are the exception to the rule. I see people posting all over Card Talk about seeing non-sports at the comic stores near where they live. However, I am being completely truthful when I say that I NEVER see Rittenhouse or ArtBox cards for sale at any of the places I have gone to. No Star Trek, Lost, Xena, James Bond, Harry Potter, etc. Where are the stores that carry these cards ? Not around here--not for the past 10 years, at least.

Within 1 hour of me I have 2 large sports card shops and maybe 3 or 4 smaller shops. Of those only 1 carries non-sports cards at all and they are very limited. The 2 larger shops are both local distributors and I contacted one of them and was told that they would continue to be able to sell UD products on their website. That means that the smaller shops that were buying from them will not be able to sell if their own retail shop can't sell them.

There are maybe 4 or 5 comic shops and none of them carry non-sports cards. I used to buy tons of non-sports cards at these same comic shops during the mid to late 90's. I went in about 6 years ago and was told that they stopped selling non-sports cards because with ebay and online stores they couldn't compete with pricing. They actually gave me a few sites and ebay sellers to look at.

As a hockey card collector I can say without a doubt that UD getting an exclusive license killed my enthusiasm for the hobby, along with several other collectors that I know. I paid over $125 for a box of mid-end cards (9 packs), pulled a game worn patch card numbered out of 5 and it was 1 color. I can understand if this was a team like the Red Wings with only 2 colors, but this was a team with 4 colors. I won't even get too much into redemption cards problems or when the NHL / NHLPA mandated that a rookie had to actually play in a game before they could make a card.

All in all I think that if this happened when the internet sales were starting years ago it might have made sense, but now it really doesn't. If anything like you all have said, it will make cards more scarce. Also - what does this mean for Target, Meijer, Wal Mart etc.? From what I can see it is a secondary market person that stocks these - will these stop also?

quote:

Originally posted by Nathan MacKeller:
Also - what does this mean for Target, Meijer, Wal Mart etc.? From what I can see it is a secondary market person that stocks these - will these stop also?

Big retail stores sell the retail boxes, not the hobby product. I would doubt that it would change if the contract is with the manufacturer. If its one of these combination boxes that I see at these places now and then, well I really don't know what company throws them together.

Fewer distributors means fewer sellers, fewer sellers means fewer cases/boxes. Throw in the AIR program and it's still only a percentage of dealers who can sell directly to collectors.

All this "fewer" means higher prices for those of us who buy the boxes and cases.

Yay.

I'm working on a few things right now that's involving UD. If all goes well, I might be able to help some poeple out.

and then there are some stores like mine that carry over 50 boxes of non-sport packs and over 20 sealed boxes for sale along with sets and binders and more AND still only a few collectors come regulary to buy.

As more people look on-line to save time and money these types of stores will not have the cash flow to keep up with expenses and cut back
and more of these stores will be closing.

People need to support their local stores.

quote:

Originally posted by comiczone:
and then there are some stores like mine that carry over 50 boxes of non-sport packs and over 20 sealed boxes for sale along with sets and binders and more AND still only a few collectors come regulary to buy.

As more people look on-line to save time and money these types of stores will not have the cash flow to keep up with expenses and cut back
and more of these stores will be closing.

People need to support their local stores.

Unfortunately your shop isn't the norm. I live in one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country, and the nearest sports card or comic shop is over 30 minutes away from my house, and they don't carry non-sport cards.

There are a couple of places that are about an hour away that have a limited selection of non-sport cards. I have to imagine even with those odds I'm better off than a lot of people. Sadly, for most people, there isn't a 'local' shop to support.

I remember a comic store not far from me who, 10 years ago, bought boxes of the latest Star Trek, and other hot sci-fi sets at the time.

He had plenty of customers, but I doubt if he sold 1 or 2 packs of these cards

After a year or so of this, he stopped carrying cards all together and focused on the comics. Who could blame him, if they didn't sell ?

I talked to an actual live person in the Upper Deck Entertainment division today. I learned lots of things:

There are more entertainment card stores in the US than there are sports card stores.

All comic shops will carry UD products

And my favorite:

I CAN still buy UD products. 90 days after the initial release so physical stores have the first shot at customers.

I was also told that there would be NO exceptions to this new policy.

He had the nerve to tell me to "just open a small shop, it doesn't have to be big."

I'm still sorting out what to do about Beginnings, but I'm a little ticked off about this.

I hope everyone quits buying UD products until this silly program dies a quick and natural death.

Ed

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That's great news, Ed! After 90 days most of the product should be selling at a hefty discount for you!

Entertainment card stores? Where?

I believe them when they say they won't make exceptions (although I bet that only lasts a few months). One major online retailer announced they were converting part of their warehouse to retail just so they can sell UD stuff.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: webjon,

I would not shed a tear if Upper Deck and Topps decided to leave the non-sport industry altogether. Leave the licenses to Rittenhouse and Breygent, where a set can be done justice rather than become a side project.
Sorry to any internet dealer that gets caught up in this nonsense.

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
I talked to an actual live person in the Upper Deck Entertainment division today.

He had the nerve to tell me to "just open a small shop, it doesn't have to be big."

Ed

Maybe its just me... but I think it would be a much more savvy business decision to simply do without their product than to spend serious money on the monthly overheads needed for a store.

What a tool. Its all very draconian this new idea of theirs and shows they really don't have a clue.

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
I talked to an actual live person in the Upper Deck Entertainment division today.

He had the nerve to tell me to "just open a small shop, it doesn't have to be big."


Ed

Wow. What an a**.

Did you ask if UD would loan you the money to get started?

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:

There are more entertainment card stores in the US than there are sports card stores.

All comic shops will carry UD products


Ed

I didn't realize UD had the authority to mandate what products comics shops will carry. Unless they are sending out free product I wouldn't count on it.

What I find funny is that UD would even call them "comic shops". There is no such thing anymore. When you are lucky enough to have a hobby store in your area, they are selling a variety of products. These stores can not support themselves on comics alone, that market has crashed too. They sell toys, sportcards, non-sport cards, gaming cards, models, figures, books, graphic novels, novelties, stuff they just pick up from walk-ins, and comics. The merchandise has to be diversified to survive.

To simply refer to them as comic stores shows that UD is not in touch with what is happening in the brick and mortar shops it wants to have as customers.

quote:

Originally posted by SBelcher:
I would not shed a tear if Upper Deck and Topps decided to leave the non-sport industry altogether. Leave the licenses to Rittenhouse and Breygent, where a set can be done justice rather than become a side project.
Sorry to any internet dealer that gets caught up in this nonsense.

UD yes, Topps no. Have you missed the recent EXCELLENT Galaxy 6?