I agree with you, a lot of people on this forum don't understand the BS that Upper Deck has pulled in the sports card world for the last 10+ years. They could have easily made the Thor autos in this set a redemption in the Thor set, and then saved some of the stickers and made the same autos from the same people on Avengers stock in this set. Pretty simple solution. But they didn't get enough pre sales of Thor and Captain America, so they decided not to include them which is an insult to the people who DID spend their money on Thor and Captain America.
Also I want to clarify, this is mostly about Thor. The captain america autograph included in this set I agree would not have made that set any stronger. The manufactured patches in that set are a joke. However the 4 Thor autographs, had they been included, would have made that set a homerun.
You seem to be under the assumption that UD knew they were going to be getting the Thor autographs for certain. And what if they didn't ever show up, despite commitments. Then they'd be evil all over again. It's not as simple a solution as you think.
Do you know for a fact that they chose to hold back the autographs because of low pre-sales? Getting a commitment from someone to sign and actually getting the signatures are two totally different things. And while I do remember seeing Dennings' name pop up briefly on an unofficial list, none of the others now in Avengers were. So I don't see how that's misleading to anyone. In fact, it's the opposite. Was the final lineup for Thor and Captain America disappointing. Yes - I'd agree with that. But it delivered what they advertised, which is a totally different thing.
And you're right, UD has been far from perfect over the years. Far from perfect. So now they're trying to make up for it by making an effort to avoid something that everyone complains about - redemptions - and they still take heat. They load up a product with three times the hits they promise, and they still take heat.
Ryan,
Well said.
I think certain people just need something to ***** about, and UD seems to be to easy target. It would have been the same arguing had the "Thor cardstock" cards been inserted in the Thor set.
I'm sorry but did you actually PURCHASE any of the Thor product or is the only way you are connected with it your stencil "sketches" that you contributed?
I actually spent my money on the set, and now to find out there were autographs that weren't inserted pisses me off and I have every right to complain about it.
In response to Ryan, I follow Jamie Alexander on Twitter and have been since well before Thor came out. She tweeted a photo of herself signing the upper deck sticker sheets saying how she was so excited to get an autographed "baseball card" coming out when the movie does. This was at least 3-4 months before the set released. So yeah, unless she/her agent didn't get back those stickers to UD in the couple months between the photo and the release date, then Upper Deck had them in house, and just decided not to use them. She even told people on twitter to send her their base cards and she would sign them for free since her autograph card didn't make it into the product. Can't speak for Dennings Elba or Colm but something tells me that Upper Deck had them in house and just decided not to include them. Pre orders on both sets were horrible. That is why the manufactured patches were added to captain america, the pre orders on that were about 40% of what thor was, and thor wasn't that great for them either. Also 3 times the hits? From the time I ordered I was told there would be 3 hits per box. A sketch, a single or dual costume, and a triple/quad/printing plate as the third hit. The only place that it seems like they added more value was the autographs, as they seem to fall 1 per 6 box case and the comic cuts are just a bonus if you pull one. I pre ordered based on the 3 hits per box that they said would happen, and that is what happened. I don't know where you get 3x the hits from...
Also again going back to the sports card market that Upper Deck has been in for years now, they put redemptions into every single product they have ever released, and MANY MANY times they do not come through. I had a redemption pending for TWO YEARS before they finally sent me a replacement. They had contracts with those actors, so they could have easily inserted redemptions for them into Thor, and kept half the stickers for this release and still had the same amount of signers as they do now.
In response to Chuck, no, I don't think Dennings or Alexander will appear in Avengers, but it is possible. I know for a fact some of the people on the costume cards will NOT be in Avengers. They are just using up costumes from IM2 Thor and Captain America to make new costume cards.
Oh, it's Bryan. Hi.
Yeah, I purchased some Thor product. Yeah, I contributed some "sketches" (but no stencils sorry).
And yes, you have the right to complain. I've seen it on at least 4 different websites so far. I'm sure I'll find more eventually.
But you also have the right to embrace a cool product loaded with hit galore. You have the right to purchase as much of the Avengers product you can get your hands on. You have the right to proudly display the hits you get, or sell the hits you get.
Enjoy it. Embrace it. Write a letter. Be an advocate of change. You have the right to act as you see fit.
Do what you think you need to do.
March 21, 2012, 02:45 PM
TheMetatrOn
Really? Every card for sale on eBay looks like a stencil was used as every "sketch" is near identical. What part of your sketches are actually sketched? Your website homepage has 4 different stencils you have used lately on other projects, so saying your Thor "sketch" cards aren't stencils is pretty hard to believe. Same goes for this set.
The point is no one can buy avengers. It is short printed, and it is being funneled mostly through a couple online retailers who have jacked up prices more than 35% over cost.
I pre ordered a good amount of Avengers, that doesn't change the fact that I also spent money on thor, and am having to spend MORE money on avengers just to get the hits that should have been included in ThorThis message has been edited. Last edited by: TheMetatrOn, March 21, 2012 02:55 PM
March 21, 2012, 02:49 PM
jadams
quote:
Originally posted by TheMetatrOn: The point is no one can buy avengers. It is short printed, and it is being funneled mostly through a couple online retailers who have jacked up prices more than 35% over cost.
I pre ordered a good amount of Avengers, that doesn't change the fact that I also spent money on thor, and am having to spend MORE money on avengers just to get the hits that should have been included in Thor
Ok
March 21, 2012, 03:02 PM
jadams
quote:
Originally posted by TheMetatrOn: Really? Every card for sale on eBay looks like a stencil was used as every "sketch" is near identical. What part of your sketches are actually sketched? Your website homepage has 4 different stencils you have used lately on other projects, so saying your Thor "sketch" cards aren't stencils is pretty hard to believe. Same goes for this set.
The point is no one can buy avengers. It is short printed, and it is being funneled mostly through a couple online retailers who have jacked up prices more than 35% over cost.
I pre ordered a good amount of Avengers, that doesn't change the fact that I also spent money on thor, and am having to spend MORE money on avengers just to get the hits that should have been included in Thor
Oh goody, you edited your post to take a pot shot.
In regards to your comments on the THOR "sketches". For the THOR release, I chose to do linocuts. Linocut is a printmaking technique, a variant of woodcut in which a sheet of linoleum (sometimes mounted on a wooden block) is used for the relief surface. A design is cut into the linoleum surface with a sharp knife, V-shaped chisel or gouge, with the raised (uncarved) areas representing a reversal (mirror image) of the parts to show printed. The linoleum sheet is inked with a roller (called a brayer), and then impressed onto paper or fabric. The actual printing can be done by hand or with a press.
Does this help?
And yes, for the AVENGERS release, I switched over and used stencils.
In summary, I didn't use stencils on the THOR release. I used stencils on the AVENGERS release.
Coming from the person that hand crafted every bit of each card why is that so hard to believe?
March 21, 2012, 03:15 PM
TheMetatrOn
Oh my bad so stencils for this set, and essentially a stamp for the Thor set. Not to far off. Neither involve sketching anything onto the card.
March 21, 2012, 03:22 PM
jadams
quote:
Originally posted by TheMetatrOn: Oh my bad so stencils for this set, and essentially a stamp for the Thor set. Not to far off. Neither involve sketching anything onto the card.
Haha, ok. It's very far off. The two methods are nothing alike. At all.
And both involve hand creating each card. No two are the same.
Why all the negativity and hatred?
You really should take the time to actually learn and educate yourself on different mediums of art. There is a bounty of beauty out there. So much incredible work.
March 21, 2012, 03:25 PM
TheMetatrOn
One is a stamp, the other is a stencil. Yeah I get it, very different. However neither involve any sketching being done on the card. Both involve simply repeating an image. I'm pretty sure I could do that. Wish I had thought of the stencil route and gotten into the sketch card game...its almost too easy.
March 21, 2012, 03:27 PM
DeathStorm
What does any of this have to do with UD or Avengers?
March 21, 2012, 03:30 PM
jadams
quote:
Originally posted by TheMetatrOn: One is a stamp, the other is a stencil. Yeah I get it, very different. However neither involve any sketching being done on the card. Both involve simply repeating an image. I'm pretty sure I could do that. Wish I had thought of the stencil route and gotten into the sketch card game...its almost too easy.
See, now you're just being an internet troll. I was genuinely attempting to help you understand. And you are going to toss insults my way. Nice try, I'm not taking the bait.
March 21, 2012, 03:47 PM
H_Toser
TheMetatrOn:
I did not realize until today you are Bryan Shaffer. We have banned you previously and ask you not to post here any further. You have not listened and signed up with a fake name ("Christopher Winn" this time; I have several other aliases on file). This account is now banned as well. Please do not post here on NSU Card Talk any further.
By the way, calling someone out like this is not my usual thing. But I've emailed Bryan before saying the same thing and apparently that did not work.
So to restart this topic, when will the cards actually be shipping/in hand for sale?
I believe today is the official release date, a number of cards have shown up on the auction site, my dealer will have them tomorrow so I hope to have mine on Friday. They have also started to show up at retail outlets.
____________________ "The problem, I'm told, is more than medical."
March 21, 2012, 04:35 PM
igman7
Actually, yesterday was the street date which is how I was able to pick up my case and post my break.
____________________ Feeling happy? Then rip open a box. Feeling blue...then rip 2!
March 21, 2012, 05:33 PM
Batman
Thanks, Iggy!
____________________ "The problem, I'm told, is more than medical."
March 23, 2012, 12:09 AM
Arvin Sloane
I'll have my case on Friday morning. A nice surprise to see several unexpected cards show up in this set.
March 23, 2012, 11:23 AM
Chris Cline
So is this the Avengers Movie release or is there going to be a "movie" release as well?
____________________ Ok 1 more pack then I'am done...no really..wait how many are left in that box?
So is this the Avengers Movie release or is there going to be a "movie" release as well?
This is the movie release but it's also including the events of Thor, Hulk, Captain America and Iron Man prior to the Avengers assemble as a recap.
So the base cards are split in 2; 1 part cover all heroes as list above in their respective movie and the second part cover the Avenger Assemble movie.
March 23, 2012, 07:00 PM
riddler_149
This set looks really nice
I'm hoping that the box prices come down a bit before I indulge.
Question for all of you- Should I wait, or should I bite the bullet now? I know I bought a lot of Thor last year, and now the box prices are MUCH lower, which made me feel like an idiot when I bought the boxes right after release. I ended up waiting on Captain America and was able to get some boxes for a reasonable price. I know that the MSRP is higher for this release and that production numbers seem to be lower, but do you guys think that the prices will come down once the UD "waiting period" is over and more store can stock this, or do you think all the product will be gone by then? Like I said, I want to get a box or two for my personal collection but I don't want to feel like an idiot down the line when I spend a small fortune now and nine months down the road the boxes are on clearance. On the other hand, I don't want to wait too long and have the box prices be astronomical. Either way, I thought that I would consult the experts for their opinions
My opinion(and I stress it is only an opinion,I am wrong as much as I am right! ) is that you should buy now but only from dealers you trust not to have cherry picked the autos out of the cases.
The fact that even the boxes without the big hits will still have a minimum of one sketch and two costume cards means box prices will not fall and the gamblers looking for the autos are likely to force prices up.
March 24, 2012, 08:34 AM
DeathStorm
If you intend to buy at some point I'd buy now as it seems to be a hot product and I don't expect there to be many cases available. I can't be certain of course because they don't state how many cases are available but everything I've seen so far is saying demand is higher than supply.
You can tell Thor and Captain America weren't great products because the cases are half their original price and still aren't selling but the hits look good for this set.
