To me, this is a MUCH better product than Marvel Greatest Heroes. While the cost is higher, I am walking away with 12 sketches that are comparable (sales wise) to what I pulled from RA's set but also two autos, two plates, a comic cut and 22 costumes.

quote:

Originally posted by simpsonscardman:

quote:

Originally posted by Breygent Marketing:
Here are 2 autograph cards from Avengers

TOM

What an awful company upper deck are!!

Dreadful way to treat fans and collectors!!

I wish i could say i was surprised!!what a joke you are upper deck!!

Why does this make Upper Deck Awful???

If they had Thor cards that didn't make it into the set, then why not put them in this one? Better than letting them out the back door isn't it.

These boxes seem loaded with hits. Other than the fact I'm not allowed to sell sealed boxes, I don't see the problem here.

Ed

I agree, I like that they included these extra autos, this set is a winner, lots of cool stuff to chase, I upped my order to a full case when I saw the hits coming from these boxes. I should have it on Friday, looking forward to it!

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
Why does this make Upper Deck Awful???

If they had Thor cards that didn't make it into the set, then why not put them in this one? Better than letting them out the back door isn't it.

These boxes seem loaded with hits. Other than the fact I'm not allowed to sell sealed boxes, I don't see the problem here.

Ed

I would say that there are a couple of problems with UD Ed, starting with the fact that a collector can not trust its pre-release ads and has no idea whether a product will even contain something they want. You have to wait until the boxes are opened and by then you are stuck with it if its bad or you are scrambling to find some if its good. I remarked in this thread a couple of pages back when posters were saying that the Johannson autograph card was so beautiful, be careful, it may never even exist. Yet people said there must be an autograph, there is a picture of it on the sell sheet. Well, unless something drastically changes it looks like that's all it is, a picture.

Second problem, I like the Thor autograph cards for Dennings and Alexander, but why weren't they in Thor? Those boxes contained mainly costume cards, a sketch if you were pretty lucky, and then the short list of autographs came in at about one per case. Thor could have used those autos, but they were held back for this release I guess.

Now Captain America was even worse, with manufactured patch cards masquerading as premium hits and had even fewer autographs of main actors.

Finally, I agree that the autographs that have apparently now been confirmed to be in Avengers Assemble are not bad at all, although other previous signers that might have been expected are missing. I still wouldn't mind picking up at least a couple of the new ones, but what is the ratio? If they are seeded like Thor and Captain America, you are looking at one per case or not even. That may be alright for collectors able to buy multiple cases, but box buyers will have a slim chance of pulling any autographs. The market price on individual autograph card purchases should be high due to limited supply.

Since UD got the license for Marvel products their formula for set construction has been pretty consistent going back to Iron Man 2. In that regard collectors should know what to expect by now and either go along with it or just don't buy it. I don't think it does anything to complain and still buy it.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
Why does this make Upper Deck Awful???

If they had Thor cards that didn't make it into the set, then why not put them in this one? Better than letting them out the back door isn't it.

These boxes seem loaded with hits. Other than the fact I'm not allowed to sell sealed boxes, I don't see the problem here.

Ed

I would say that there are a couple of problems with UD Ed, starting with the fact that a collector can not trust its pre-release ads and has no idea whether a product will even contain something they want. You have to wait until the boxes are opened and by then you are stuck with it if its bad or you are scrambling to find some if its good. I remarked in this thread a couple of pages back when posters were saying that the Johannson autograph card was so beautiful, be careful, it may never even exist. Yet people said there must be an autograph, there is a picture of it on the sell sheet. Well, unless something drastically changes it looks like that's all it is, a picture.

Second problem, I like the Thor autograph cards for Dennings and Alexander, but why weren't they in Thor? Those boxes contained mainly costume cards, a sketch if you were pretty lucky, and then the short list of autographs came in at about one per case. Thor could have used those autos, but they were held back for this release I guess.

Now Captain America was even worse, with manufactured patch cards masquerading as premium hits and had even fewer autographs of main actors.

Finally, I agree that the autographs that have apparently now been confirmed to be in Avengers Assemble are not bad at all, although other previous signers that might have been expected are missing. I still wouldn't mind picking up at least a couple of the new ones, but what is the ratio? If they are seeded like Thor and Captain America, you are looking at one per case or not even. That may be alright for collectors able to buy multiple cases, but box buyers will have a slim chance of pulling any autographs. The market price on individual autograph card purchases should be high due to limited supply.

Since UD got the license for Marvel products their formula for set construction has been pretty consistent going back to Iron Man 2. In that regard collectors should know what to expect by now and either go along with it or just don't buy it. I don't think it does anything to complain and still buy it.

stickers came in late so they weren't held back,i am just glad they are adding to a awesome set,can't for the life of me see this as a problem

quote:

Originally posted by archifou:
So far confirmed:

Chris Hemsworth, Jeremy Renner, Cobie Smulders, Colm Feore(on unreleased Thor card), Kat Dennings(on unreleased Thor card), Jaime Alexander(on unreleased Thor card), Bruno Ricci(on unreleased Captain America card).

OK, so you are saying that no autos were held back, they just didn't make the deadline of the previous sets. So that would mean that Hemsworth, Renner and Smulders were they only three confirmed for Avengers Assemble and that would be too small a list, right? So are there more signers or not?

I don't get why its so hard to post a checklist when the packing has to be done.

Here is why this is a problem: Some people actually spent money on Thor cases and the product was lacking. These autographs would have made the Thor set MUCH better. Upper Deck inserts redemptions into 100% of every sport product they do, don't see why they couldn't add redemptions for the signers they knew would be coming in.

Also, what really irks me is that they put it on the Thor and Captain America card stock. Some people are saying if it didn't come in Thor, it isn't part of a set. To me, the four unreleased Thor autographs in this set ARE part of the Thor set. How hard would it have been to put all these new signers on Avengers card stock? They did it with the costume cards....I have seen costume cards with characters/costume pieces that are NOT in the Avengers movie.

I am glad the autographs are released, I am glad they are out there now, but this is an insult to the people who spent their money on Thor and Captain America and ended up opening two poor products that could have been made better by the cards that were being held back for this set, which is short printed and a lot of people cannot even get their hands on.

quote:

Originally posted by igman7:
To me, this is a MUCH better product than Marvel Greatest Heroes. While the cost is higher, I am walking away with 12 sketches that are comparable (sales wise) to what I pulled from RA's set but also two autos, two plates, a comic cut and 22 costumes.

It's also 50% more expensive so without these hits this set would have been utterly doomed. The sketches so far don't seem much better than what we saw from Thor/CA etc but I know there's some good new artists on this set and I'm looking forward to seeing what people break.

quote:

Originally posted by DeathStorm:

quote:

Originally posted by igman7:
To me, this is a MUCH better product than Marvel Greatest Heroes. While the cost is higher, I am walking away with 12 sketches that are comparable (sales wise) to what I pulled from RA's set but also two autos, two plates, a comic cut and 22 costumes.

It's also 50% more expensive so without these hits this set would have been utterly doomed. The sketches so far don't seem much better than what we saw from Thor/CA etc but I know there's some good new artists on this set and I'm looking forward to seeing what people break.

50%? I paid $670 for my MGH case and $800 for the Avengers case...less than a 20% difference for a whole lot more bang for the buck.

quote:

Originally posted by TheMetatrOn:
Here is why this is a problem: Some people actually spent money on Thor cases and the product was lacking. These autographs would have made the Thor set MUCH better. Upper Deck inserts redemptions into 100% of every sport product they do, don't see why they couldn't add redemptions for the signers they knew would be coming in.

Also, what really irks me is that they put it on the Thor and Captain America card stock. Some people are saying if it didn't come in Thor, it isn't part of a set. To me, the four unreleased Thor autographs in this set ARE part of the Thor set. How hard would it have been to put all these new signers on Avengers card stock? They did it with the costume cards....I have seen costume cards with characters/costume pieces that are NOT in the Avengers movie.

I am glad the autographs are released, I am glad they are out there now, but this is an insult to the people who spent their money on Thor and Captain America and ended up opening two poor products that could have been made better by the cards that were being held back for this set, which is short printed and a lot of people cannot even get their hands on.

So they can't win then, I guess. Sure, they would have made Thor better. Captain America - the one card I've seen so far wouldn't have made a difference.

UD should get credit where it's due. When this set was originally solicited, it looked pretty lackluster. Now it's loaded. It's gone from one "hit" to three. Yes, there was a mock-up for an autograph that never materialized. But they also mentioned to anyone who asked that it was just a mock-up and never promised it anywhere on their solicitations. Could it have been handled a bit differently? Definitely. Maybe a disclaimer. But with this set no false promises were made. In fact, it's better than promised.

While I can't speak for UD, I'd guess they wanted these autographs in the earlier sets. I'm guessing they wished that they were delivered when they were promised. My guess is that the license is extremely tight and didn't allow for any date shifts so they had to go with what they had.

I'm not trying to be a homer for UD, but it's important to remember that they're probably not trying to insult their customers. They're delivering the best they can with what they're given.

The other option would likely be to sell them as a mini factory set. The price would likely be huge and people would still complain.

This way, at least, some kid at Walmart or Target or a card show might pick up a pack pull an autograph and get excited for the hobby.

I believe that the only hits in retail are the costume cards, but a good point nonetheless.

quote:

Originally posted by igman7:
50%? I paid $670 for my MGH case and $800 for the Avengers case...less than a 20% difference for a whole lot more bang for the buck.

Where can you obtain it at that price?

You most likely can not anymore. I pre-ordered my case from a show dealer who has a card shop. At this point, boxes/cases will be quite a bit more because of Upper Deck's distribution policy that funnels product through certain online dealers. Actually, due to the policy, you should not be able to buy sealed product for a year after release unless it comes from an approved UK seller.

quote:

Originally posted by igman7:
You most likely can not anymore. I pre-ordered my case from a show dealer who has a card shop. At this point, boxes/cases will be quite a bit more because of Upper Deck's distribution policy that funnels product through certain online dealers. Actually, due to the policy, you should not be able to buy sealed product for a year after release unless it comes from an approved UK seller.

An approved UK dealer? I won't hold my breath for that! Don't take what I said the wrong way, I just think these hits make sense given the box price and if they'd put less in the set it would have been a really glaring mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan Cracknell

UD should get credit where it's due. When this set was originally solicited, it looked pretty lackluster. Now it's loaded. It's gone from one "hit" to three. Yes, there was a mock-up for an autograph that never materialized. But they also mentioned to anyone who asked that it was just a mock-up and never promised it anywhere on their solicitations. Could it have been handled a bit differently? Definitely. Maybe a disclaimer. But with this set no false promises were made. In fact, it's better than promised.

While I can't speak for UD, I'd guess they wanted these autographs in the earlier sets. I'm guessing they wished that they were delivered when they were promised. My guess is that the license is extremely tight and didn't allow for any date shifts so they had to go with what they had.

I'm not trying to be a homer for UD, but it's important to remember that they're probably not trying to insult their customers. They're delivering the best they can with what they're given.

The other option would likely be to sell them as a mini factory set. The price would likely be huge and people would still complain.

This way, at least, some kid at Walmart or Target or a card show might pick up a pack pull an autograph and get excited for the hobby.

The Thor and Captain America autographs should have been redemptions, plain and simple. And the Scarlet auto display is simply unforgivable. They used it at shows to promote the set (and drive sales). It's fine if it's a mock up, if you produce the actual card. But if they had pulled that on a sports card set, collectors would have been up in arms.

UD has never cared about insulting their customers. They have counterfeited cards, produced cut signature cards with fake autos, reprinted popular cards and back doored them as originals (in singles and pack form), and the list goes on. There's a reason why they don't have an NBA, MLB or NFL license anymore.

We as collectors need to stop letting this stuff slide, and hold them responsible. Speak with your wallet.

quote:

Originally posted by ScoobyDew79:

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan Cracknell

UD should get credit where it's due. When this set was originally solicited, it looked pretty lackluster. Now it's loaded. It's gone from one "hit" to three. Yes, there was a mock-up for an autograph that never materialized. But they also mentioned to anyone who asked that it was just a mock-up and never promised it anywhere on their solicitations. Could it have been handled a bit differently? Definitely. Maybe a disclaimer. But with this set no false promises were made. In fact, it's better than promised.

While I can't speak for UD, I'd guess they wanted these autographs in the earlier sets. I'm guessing they wished that they were delivered when they were promised. My guess is that the license is extremely tight and didn't allow for any date shifts so they had to go with what they had.

I'm not trying to be a homer for UD, but it's important to remember that they're probably not trying to insult their customers. They're delivering the best they can with what they're given.

The other option would likely be to sell them as a mini factory set. The price would likely be huge and people would still complain.

This way, at least, some kid at Walmart or Target or a card show might pick up a pack pull an autograph and get excited for the hobby.

The Thor and Captain America autographs should have been redemptions, plain and simple. And the Scarlet auto display is simply unforgivable. They used it at shows to promote the set (and drive sales). It's fine if it's a mock up, if you produce the actual card. But if they had pulled that on a sports card set, collectors would have been up in arms.

UD has never cared about insulting their customers. They have counterfeited cards, produced cut signature cards with fake autos, reprinted popular cards and back doored them as originals (in singles and pack form), and the list goes on. There's a reason why they don't have an NBA, MLB or NFL license anymore.

We as collectors need to stop letting this stuff slide, and hold them responsible. Speak with your wallet.

I agree with you, a lot of people on this forum don't understand the BS that Upper Deck has pulled in the sports card world for the last 10+ years. They could have easily made the Thor autos in this set a redemption in the Thor set, and then saved some of the stickers and made the same autos from the same people on Avengers stock in this set. Pretty simple solution. But they didn't get enough pre sales of Thor and Captain America, so they decided not to include them which is an insult to the people who DID spend their money on Thor and Captain America.

Also I want to clarify, this is mostly about Thor. The captain america autograph included in this set I agree would not have made that set any stronger. The manufactured patches in that set are a joke. However the 4 Thor autographs, had they been included, would have made that set a homerun.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TheMetatrOn,

quote:

Originally posted by TheMetatrOn:

I agree with you, a lot of people on this forum don't understand the BS that Upper Deck has pulled in the sports card world for the last 10+ years. They could have easily made the Thor autos in this set a redemption in the Thor set, and then saved some of the stickers and made the same autos from the same people on Avengers stock in this set. Pretty simple solution. But they didn't get enough pre sales of Thor and Captain America, so they decided not to include them which is an insult to the people who DID spend their money on Thor and Captain America.

Also I want to clarify, this is mostly about Thor. The captain america autograph included in this set I agree would not have made that set any stronger. The manufactured patches in that set are a joke. However the 4 Thor autographs, had they been included, would have made that set a homerun.

You seem to be under the assumption that UD knew they were going to be getting the Thor autographs for certain. And what if they didn't ever show up, despite commitments. Then they'd be evil all over again. It's not as simple a solution as you think.

Do you know for a fact that they chose to hold back the autographs because of low pre-sales? Getting a commitment from someone to sign and actually getting the signatures are two totally different things. And while I do remember seeing Dennings' name pop up briefly on an unofficial list, none of the others now in Avengers were. So I don't see how that's misleading to anyone. In fact, it's the opposite. Was the final lineup for Thor and Captain America disappointing. Yes - I'd agree with that. But it delivered what they advertised, which is a totally different thing.

And you're right, UD has been far from perfect over the years. Far from perfect. So now they're trying to make up for it by making an effort to avoid something that everyone complains about - redemptions - and they still take heat. They load up a product with three times the hits they promise, and they still take heat.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan Cracknell:

quote:

Originally posted by TheMetatrOn:

I agree with you, a lot of people on this forum don't understand the BS that Upper Deck has pulled in the sports card world for the last 10+ years. They could have easily made the Thor autos in this set a redemption in the Thor set, and then saved some of the stickers and made the same autos from the same people on Avengers stock in this set. Pretty simple solution. But they didn't get enough pre sales of Thor and Captain America, so they decided not to include them which is an insult to the people who DID spend their money on Thor and Captain America.

Also I want to clarify, this is mostly about Thor. The captain america autograph included in this set I agree would not have made that set any stronger. The manufactured patches in that set are a joke. However the 4 Thor autographs, had they been included, would have made that set a homerun.

You seem to be under the assumption that UD knew they were going to be getting the Thor autographs for certain. And what if they didn't ever show up, despite commitments. Then they'd be evil all over again. It's not as simple a solution as you think.

Do you know for a fact that they chose to hold back the autographs because of low pre-sales? Getting a commitment from someone to sign and actually getting the signatures are two totally different things. And while I do remember seeing Dennings' name pop up briefly on an unofficial list, none of the others now in Avengers were. So I don't see how that's misleading to anyone. In fact, it's the opposite. Was the final lineup for Thor and Captain America disappointing. Yes - I'd agree with that. But it delivered what they advertised, which is a totally different thing.

And you're right, UD has been far from perfect over the years. Far from perfect. So now they're trying to make up for it by making an effort to avoid something that everyone complains about - redemptions - and they still take heat. They load up a product with three times the hits they promise, and they still take heat.

Ryan,

Well said.

I think certain people just need something to ***** about, and UD seems to be to easy target. It would have been the same arguing had the "Thor cardstock" cards been inserted in the Thor set.

My only complaint about this is that they had a Johannson mock up auto on the sell sheet, and don't have it in the product.

I also have to wonder...do the people from the Thor and Captain America products even appear in this movie? I mean is Cat Dennings or Jaimie Alexander even in The Avengers? There are also costume cards from Thor and Captain America. Do the people on those cards appear? I know I saw a triple costume with Jane, but I don't see The Avengers on Portman's IMDb page. Maybe this is not a movie specific product, but even so I don't remember Sif ever being a part of The Avengers.

quote:

Originally posted by jadams:

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan Cracknell:

quote:

Originally posted by TheMetatrOn:

I agree with you, a lot of people on this forum don't understand the BS that Upper Deck has pulled in the sports card world for the last 10+ years. They could have easily made the Thor autos in this set a redemption in the Thor set, and then saved some of the stickers and made the same autos from the same people on Avengers stock in this set. Pretty simple solution. But they didn't get enough pre sales of Thor and Captain America, so they decided not to include them which is an insult to the people who DID spend their money on Thor and Captain America.

Also I want to clarify, this is mostly about Thor. The captain america autograph included in this set I agree would not have made that set any stronger. The manufactured patches in that set are a joke. However the 4 Thor autographs, had they been included, would have made that set a homerun.

You seem to be under the assumption that UD knew they were going to be getting the Thor autographs for certain. And what if they didn't ever show up, despite commitments. Then they'd be evil all over again. It's not as simple a solution as you think.

Do you know for a fact that they chose to hold back the autographs because of low pre-sales? Getting a commitment from someone to sign and actually getting the signatures are two totally different things. And while I do remember seeing Dennings' name pop up briefly on an unofficial list, none of the others now in Avengers were. So I don't see how that's misleading to anyone. In fact, it's the opposite. Was the final lineup for Thor and Captain America disappointing. Yes - I'd agree with that. But it delivered what they advertised, which is a totally different thing.

And you're right, UD has been far from perfect over the years. Far from perfect. So now they're trying to make up for it by making an effort to avoid something that everyone complains about - redemptions - and they still take heat. They load up a product with three times the hits they promise, and they still take heat.

Ryan,

Well said.

I think certain people just need something to ***** about, and UD seems to be to easy target. It would have been the same arguing had the "Thor cardstock" cards been inserted in the Thor set.

I'm sorry but did you actually PURCHASE any of the Thor product or is the only way you are connected with it your stencil "sketches" that you contributed?

I actually spent my money on the set, and now to find out there were autographs that weren't inserted pisses me off and I have every right to complain about it.

In response to Ryan, I follow Jamie Alexander on Twitter and have been since well before Thor came out. She tweeted a photo of herself signing the upper deck sticker sheets saying how she was so excited to get an autographed "baseball card" coming out when the movie does. This was at least 3-4 months before the set released. So yeah, unless she/her agent didn't get back those stickers to UD in the couple months between the photo and the release date, then Upper Deck had them in house, and just decided not to use them. She even told people on twitter to send her their base cards and she would sign them for free since her autograph card didn't make it into the product. Can't speak for Dennings Elba or Colm but something tells me that Upper Deck had them in house and just decided not to include them. Pre orders on both sets were horrible. That is why the manufactured patches were added to captain america, the pre orders on that were about 40% of what thor was, and thor wasn't that great for them either. Also 3 times the hits? From the time I ordered I was told there would be 3 hits per box. A sketch, a single or dual costume, and a triple/quad/printing plate as the third hit. The only place that it seems like they added more value was the autographs, as they seem to fall 1 per 6 box case and the comic cuts are just a bonus if you pull one. I pre ordered based on the 3 hits per box that they said would happen, and that is what happened. I don't know where you get 3x the hits from...

Also again going back to the sports card market that Upper Deck has been in for years now, they put redemptions into every single product they have ever released, and MANY MANY times they do not come through. I had a redemption pending for TWO YEARS before they finally sent me a replacement. They had contracts with those actors, so they could have easily inserted redemptions for them into Thor, and kept half the stickers for this release and still had the same amount of signers as they do now. People who only collect Non Sports have NO IDEA how good they have it compared to the sports card world. People bitched about Brendan Gleeson not signing for Harry Potter, that happens to people on a daily basis in the sports card hobby. I have gotten over 20 redemptions replaced by Upper Deck over the years and around 10 from Panini. Redemptions not being honored is NOT a new thing to me, so for Upper Deck to not include them when they had the actors under contract to sign baffles me as this is an everyday occurrence in the sports card hobby.

In response to Chuck, no, I don't think Dennings or Alexander will appear in Avengers, but it is possible. I know for a fact some of the people on the costume cards will NOT be in Avengers. They are just using up costumes from IM2 Thor and Captain America to make new costume cards.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TheMetatrOn,