Steve Charendoff stated on RA's website today that the autopenned card will not be returned in the exchange. "Sorry to disappoint anyone who wants to have both cards, but that's how it needs to be."

He doesn't say why it needs to be that way, it just does.

He goes on, "Of course, anyone is free to keep the cards they have and not return them to us . . ."

Wonder how many collectors might think holding on to that original card, which will probably have few copies after the exchange period is over, is a good idea? You know some will.

Not to belabor the point, but just to be transparent, I really think RA has to go on record as saying what they intend to do with the exchanged autopenned cards. Only because some collectors may decide that they will keep one or two that they have.

If those cards will be destroyed by RA upon return, then the number not returned will be small and some people may see that as worth the rarity. It isn't, the hand signed autograph is the one you want, but it's still your choice.

If on the other hand RA doesn't say what they will do with the returns, its fair to imagine that those cards are going to appear again, some time, somewhere, in some form. If that isn't true, RA should shut down the possibility and just commit to the fact that they won't ever be brought back. Having started a redemption process when there was none, they at least have to end the speculation of "where did they go?" in my opinion.

Hey Raven,

I don't avidly collect autograph cards but I wouldn't want an autopenned card because it is essentially a fake. I used to watch "Pawn Stars" and that was something the guys wouldn't buy to resell. As a collector, I see the other side which is that the autopenned card was pulled from a pack so it has official status and it is being talked about. It has an attraction. It's being treated as an error card and a corrected card is being made available. I would trade in the autopenned card in a heartbeat. Yes, the error could be viewed as a novelty likely rarer than the corrected card in the long run but it's unlikely the error will increase in value and will most likely sink in value. Autograph collectors want a real signature more than a famous fake.

RA might not say what it's doing with the autopenned cards because they don't want to give them any added boost in perceived value by saying the ones they have will be destroyed. I agree with you, though. RA should say they've been destroyed. Yes, some people are going to want that card after that. They might want one of both, but over time, interest will drop off and you might find it for $10 down the road or some sellers are going to try to resell it as the real one by that time. What non-sports error card of the past is on anyone's want list now? The person who held onto that autopenned one is going to wish he traded it in when he had the chance.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Not to belabor the point, but just to be transparent, I really think RA has to go on record as saying what they intend to do with the exchanged autopenned cards. Only because some collectors may decide that they will keep one or two that they have.

If those cards will be destroyed by RA upon return, then the number not returned will be small and some people may see that as worth the rarity. It isn't, the hand signed autograph is the one you want, but it's still your choice.

If on the other hand RA doesn't say what they will do with the returns, its fair to imagine that those cards are going to appear again, some time, somewhere, in some form. If that isn't true, RA should shut down the possibility and just commit to the fact that they won't ever be brought back. Having started a redemption process when there was none, they at least have to end the speculation of "where did they go?" in my opinion.

Hey Jess,

Although I hadn't thought of it in those terms before, I think you might have something with your error card comparison. The circumstances here are unusual, but CZE had a similar problem with their Katie Cassidy Arrow autographs, which were also replaced with hand signed cards after discovery. She had returned cards with a rubber stamp as I recall.

Anyway I think it would be somewhat misleading to just call licensed certified autograph cards with mechanically produced signatures like these two fakes. They are "authorized fakes". They managed to go out with the approval of the signer or the ignorance of the signer allowing someone else to do it. Then the card maker didn't catch it and distributed it. That's a lot more than a fake or forgery because the licensed card is genuine and the process was completed by authorized persons.

Since there is no such thing as an "authorized fake" yet , if you consider them error cards now that there are or will have corrected versions, that kind of makes a better fit. So good point.

I would trade it in too, but the autopenned card should wind up as being the shorter print if most people exchange them. The limited rarity is bound to interest some collectors, but for what price I couldn't even guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
He doesn't say why it needs to be that way, it just does.

They initially advertised the set as having 150 McFarlane cards. If they return the autopenned cards with the real autos, then that means there are 300 cards out there.

So keeping the autopenned cards may have something to do with making sure that they don't get into false advertising troubles.

Maybe the reason for not returning the autopenned MacFarlanes might simply be that they just don't want them out there in the hobby. After all it's not exactly a good promotion for the company.

quote:

Originally posted by Logan:
Maybe the reason for not returning the autopenned MacFarlanes might simply be that they just don't want them out there in the hobby. After all it's not exactly a good promotion for the company.

I'm leaning towards this as well, RA is not Panini, and they have always advertised themselves as card collectibles with integrity.

Granted the fake card could go into super rare status but it is very difficult to see it gaining more value than a real Seth autograph.

Seriously, who here would take that bet if you are currently holding a fake card?

It's RA's bat and ball. If they don't want to return the autopenned cards, that's up to them. Personally I think it would be more a matter that they don't have the full staff or resources to coordinate the return properly and so they don't want to commit to it.

All I would like RA to do is say what they are doing with the original autopenned cards. It makes a difference if they are being destroyed, being returned to McFarlane or being vaulted. If no one guarantees destruction, no one else should assume it.

I think that it is in RA's best interest not to reveal what they are going to do with the returned cards until all the "wrong" cards are returned or they are advised that the card is being kept or the expiry date of the offer has been reached. In this way they are likely not to breach any contract they may have that is enforceable in law.

But as its been said, its entirely up to them.

Personally I would want both cards if I was in a similar situation with cards that I collect.

regards

John

Someone on Blowout posted a scan of the "new" Seth MacFarlane autograph, and it's the same exact image/card as before - just with an authentic signature this time obviously. And it comes in a gold-sealed top loader - just like the incentives.

I got an email from USPS saying that I was getting a package from Rittenhouse. It has to be the replacement Seth auto card.

The card looks good -- I might have to pick one up. Congrats on those who are getting it!

It is great that Rittenhouse was able to get the replacements done and I am sure it was cost effective to use the same card but it needed to be different somehow. Those gold seals are not tamper proof and someone could easily swap out the card.

Of course the irony about the autopen signature is that it looks more complete and attractive than the one on the hand signed card.

While not exactly readable, there are more letters involved in the autopen. The authentic signature is really initials, with the "SM" there and the "F" appears better or worse depending on the card.

Yes RA should have made a different card, but that wasn't going to happen and They were probably lucky just to get him to sign for real. I don't think that the autopen couldn't easily be picked out with all the publicity and the fact that it really is a better autograph, but it does mean that collectors will have to keep the replaced hand signed card in the same sealed top loader or it will probably earn a subtracted discount in price.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

but it does mean that collectors will have to keep the replaced hand signed card in the same sealed top loader or it will probably earn a subtracted discount in price.

Yes i agree with that, any autograph taken out of the sealed holder will be treated as the fake even if it is not.

quote:

Originally posted by ifish73:
It is great that Rittenhouse was able to get the replacements done and I am sure it was cost effective to use the same card but it needed to be different somehow. Those gold seals are not tamper proof and someone could easily swap out the card.

Apart from one RA gold seal I got last year that seems to have magically unsealed itself, every other seal of theirs I have had, I have not been able to open without absolutely destroying the seal!

Curious to hear if yourself and others have come across seals that are easy to peel away/remove? It certainly has not been my experience over the years.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: X,

quote:

Originally posted by X:

quote:

Originally posted by ifish73:
It is great that Rittenhouse was able to get the replacements done and I am sure it was cost effective to use the same card but it needed to be different somehow. Those gold seals are not tamper proof and someone could easily swap out the card.

Apart from one RA gold seal I got last year that seems to have magically unsealed itself, every other seal of theirs I have had, I have not been able to open without absolutely destroying the seal!

Curious to hear if yourself and others have come across seals that are easy to peel away/remove? It certaining has not been my experience over the years.

I have two or three where the seal has partially unstuck from the top loader. Would have to dig them out of my binders. I am a fan of a seal, just not the huge gold one. I really liked the seals that Topps used on the Walking Dead and Star Wars Signature releases a couple years back.

I quite like the large gold RA seal but they do obscure the card so I'm not fussed about breaking the seal to get the card out.

These new Seth cards will cause confusion for collectors later down the line I reckon. A completely different card design or RA insisting on blue ink for the sigantures would have been the best ways to tell the auto-pen and real signatures apart.

quote:

Originally posted by X:
I quite like the large gold RA seal but they do obscure the card so I'm not fussed about breaking the seal to get the card out.

To break the seal or not to break the seal, that is the question.

I always break the seal because I would rather put the card in a binder page with related cards. However if considering selling the particular card, I believe potential buyers would rather have it in the original sealed top loader.

As already said, for this replacement autograph, you almost have to keep sealed, but how many collectors will turn around and send it in for grading? If they do, they had better pay for the autograph authentication too, or someone could still question it. Remember that condition grading and signature authentication are two different things in the wonderful world of slabbing.

quote:

As already said, for this replacement autograph, you almost have to keep sealed, but how many collectors will turn around and send it in for grading? If they do, they had better pay for the autograph authentication too, or someone could still question it. Remember that condition grading and signature authentication are two different things in the wonderful world of slabbing.

I wonder if they would grade the autopen?

It IS an officially released card. If they aren't grading the sig, then the card should get a grade.

That's a little twisted.

More likely they'll refuse to do anything but keep your fee, and call it ungradable.

Ed