Please, no personal attacks, people. There's no call for it and it's against our rules.

quote:

Whether intentional or not, labeled or not the end result is the same.

Wouldn't mini archive boxes stick out regardless?


Also, you obviously know this cause you're so smart and in the know, but decoy cards don't work. Sure they're inserted but all those sellers on Ebay that advertise a hit in a sealed pack are from my experience and seeing others nearly always accurate. It doesn't take the fun out either I still don't know what hit I'm getting, just the type. It also eliminates all those crappy base cards and you only buy what you want. I'm sick of filling up garbage bins with base cards.

Clearblue what do you mean honest people don't pack search? So what if someone searches packs, it's not a crime.

It's plain English and I shouldn't need to explain it further. Obviously nothing's a crime, but if you're a retailer and this is how you conduct business, by taking everything good out of a box, then it's just wrong. If a retailer is letting their customers pick and pillage a box dry, where the inserts are obvious, then that's their own problem and they're only hurting themselves.

This is going way off tangent now.

My point is, I just don't think there needs to be any added benefit or neon sign to make a box stand out for retailers or even wholesalers. They're already making money by buying cheaper and selling at market value or retail price to customers. Any advantage should be towards the end consumer. The hobby is trading cards after all, not trading boxes.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt_Blue:

Chuck everything I posted in my previous post is true so I don't get the need to attack,especially as I was praising them for the innovation just questioning their motives behind the decision.

I don't see where I attacked you personally. All I stated is that it seems like most of your posts are directed negatively at Rittenhouse (and that I find that funny), and that it would be silly to mark these mini archive boxes. I stand by both of those statements.

I would love for you to post something positive and useful rather than all the negative comments directed toward a card company that seems to put out sets that collectors like, and are somewhat inexpensive to put together even when case incentives are included (as compared to Cryptozoic sets which are hard and expensive to put together).

You also seem to have some kind of dislike towards dealers. It is not enough for them to just make their money back. Dealers are in it to make a profit. If they aren't making a profit then then why the heck would they be in this business.

And of course you would be okay with pack searching. While it's not technically a crime it is basically stealing. You may not be taking something without paying for it, but your are taking money out of someone's pocket by doing so either because the other packs in the box don't sell or because someone comes in and buys the other packs thinking there are still autos or costume cards to be had.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt_Blue:

Chuck everything I posted in my previous post is true so I don't get the need to attack,especially as I was praising them for the innovation just questioning their motives behind the decision.

I don't see where I attacked you personally. All I stated is that it seems like most of your posts are directed negatively at Rittenhouse (and that I find that funny), and that it would be silly to mark these mini archive boxes. I stand by both of those statements.

I would love for you to post something positive and useful rather than all the negative comments directed toward a card company that seems to put out sets that collectors like, and are somewhat inexpensive to put together even when case incentives are included (as compared to Cryptozoic sets which are hard and expensive to put together).

You also seem to have some kind of dislike towards dealers. It is not enough for them to just make their money back. Dealers are in it to make a profit. If they aren't making a profit then then why the heck would they be in this business.

And of course you would be okay with pack searching. While it's not technically a crime it is basically stealing. You may not be taking something without paying for it, but your are taking money out of someone's pocket by doing so either because the other packs in the box don't sell or because someone comes in and buys the other packs thinking there are still autos or costume cards to be had.

How are Cobalt_Blue's posts being critical of RA any different than those by several posters who always seem to have something negative to say about Topps and UD?

quote:

Originally posted by Arvin Sloane:

How are Cobalt_Blue's posts being critical of RA any different than those by several posters who always seem to have something negative to say about Topps and UD?

It's not, and he's free to post his opinion on any company he wants. I just find it funny that you can't seem to have a thread about a Rittenhouse product without a negative comment from Cobalt about it. It seems personal in his case.

Does it really matter if he has a personal dislike of Rittenhouse? If he has valid points to make about his dislike of their business model, then he certainly has the right to express them. The whole point of this forum is to share news, new acquisitions and opinions about card related stuff. We've all had good and bad experiences with related card companies or dealers and that will naturally have an effect on our opinions in relation to various products coming out. Instead of getting caught up in "he has a personal problem" or "he's always has something negative to say", how about we just accept the fact that people are not always going to agree about things and move on?

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

alot of that has to do with the way people have been conditioned to collect since the internet market age began. In the early 90's and before collectors bought cards mainly from hobby stores and card show dealers. Much of it was hit and miss. Common, inexpensive cards could be more difficult to find than expensive ones. The excitement was in the hunt and every collector had a want list.

Today finding any card, no matter how scarce, is not really a problem. They turn up often on the Bay or in various website searches. The only restriction is the cost, and prices are pretty uniform because every seller is watching every other seller. If you are a buyer and you are willing to spend enough money any set can be done with fast, but I think that it does take away from the collecting aspect of it.

I mean its just acquiring because you can afford it. Its neither challenging nor rewarding and its part of the reason why a slew of collectible markets have just imploded. Easy availibility on items that were assumed to be limited took away interest and destroyed pricing on everything from coins to plates to beanie babies to Hummel figurines.

Having said all that, I think mini archive boxes are a good idea and they certainly shouldn't be marked. I may prefer the old days in general, but we must adapt or die.

Do you know i could have typed this myself, i'm glad to know there is someone who thinks the same way as i do.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

alot of that has to do with the way people have been conditioned to collect since the internet market age began. In the early 90's and before collectors bought cards mainly from hobby stores and card show dealers. Much of it was hit and miss. Common, inexpensive cards could be more difficult to find than expensive ones. The excitement was in the hunt and every collector had a want list.

Today finding any card, no matter how scarce, is not really a problem. They turn up often on the Bay or in various website searches. The only restriction is the cost, and prices are pretty uniform because every seller is watching every other seller. If you are a buyer and you are willing to spend enough money any set can be done with fast, but I think that it does take away from the collecting aspect of it.

I mean its just acquiring because you can afford it. Its neither challenging nor rewarding and its part of the reason why a slew of collectible markets have just imploded. Easy availibility on items that were assumed to be limited took away interest and destroyed pricing on everything from coins to plates to beanie babies to Hummel figurines.

Having said all that, I think mini archive boxes are a good idea and they certainly shouldn't be marked. I may prefer the old days in general, but we must adapt or die.

Do you know i could have typed this myself, i'm glad to know there is someone who thinks the same way as i do.

Well said Wolfie!

This is a positive post about something that's great for the normal collector and I think its a great idea.I've decided to pre-order a case just because I feel I have a better chance of feeling like a valued customer.

A funny thing happened on the way to your local card show. It's called the internet and this conversation like most on this forum isn't new. We're talking about the evolution of the hobby and as we've discussed before the internet is a double edged sword. It has advantages and disadvantages. Dealers have a larger selling audience and buyers have more choices. Yes. there has been a major effective on pricing and depending on which side of the table you're on you may view that as good or bad.

I'm sorry, but collecting has always been about money and being able to find something. Things just move at a quicker pace with the internet and one has to be able to make the necessary adaptations to that fact. I also don't buy into the claim about money, because if it was true, we wouldn't have a Holy Grail thread. There are still challenges to be had. I know that I'm still looking for my fourth and final David Day, "Star Wars Galaxy 6" sketch card.

Are we still talking about the mini archives box? Someone alert me when the thread gets back on task!

I like the idea and would be very pleased to get one

love archive, loaded, or hot boxes. will take any value added items we can get in products!

quote:

Originally posted by Clearblue:

It's plain English and I shouldn't need to explain it further. Obviously nothing's a crime, but if you're a retailer and this is how you conduct business, by taking everything good out of a box, then it's just wrong. If a retailer is letting their customers pick and pillage a box dry, where the inserts are obvious, then that's their own problem and they're only hurting themselves.

This is going way off tangent now.

My point is, I just don't think there needs to be any added benefit or neon sign to make a box stand out for retailers or even wholesalers. They're already making money by buying cheaper and selling at market value or retail price to customers. Any advantage should be towards the end consumer. The hobby is trading cards after all, not trading boxes.

Clearblue it's just strange to hear a person react so strongly to something that doesn't hurt anyone. Buying packs from an open box is always a risk and when a company makes it easy to locate hits of course some people are going to exploit it. Early bird catches the worm.

You're giving the impression that all dealers will get them and sell them for exorbitant prices. They haven't with archive boxes so I doubt they will with mini archive boxes. I do see where you're coming from though and I don't want dealers to get anymore benefits either I just think marked mini archive boxes would benefit consumers as well. They would still generate a surprise if you opened a case.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:

I don't see where I attacked you personally. All I stated is that it seems like most of your posts are directed negatively at Rittenhouse (and that I find that funny), and that it would be silly to mark these mini archive boxes. I stand by both of those statements.

I would love for you to post something positive and useful rather than all the negative comments directed toward a card company that seems to put out sets that collectors like, and are somewhat inexpensive to put together even when case incentives are included (as compared to Cryptozoic sets which are hard and expensive to put together).

You also seem to have some kind of dislike towards dealers. It is not enough for them to just make their money back. Dealers are in it to make a profit. If they aren't making a profit then then why the heck would they be in this business.

And of course you would be okay with pack searching. While it's not technically a crime it is basically stealing. You may not be taking something without paying for it, but your are taking money out of someone's pocket by doing so either because the other packs in the box don't sell or because someone comes in and buys the other packs thinking there are still autos or costume cards to be had.

Chuck man you have a dig about my views on Rittenhouse nearly every chance you get. I was actually impressed with them for taking a step in the right direction with these mini archive boxes.

Chuck last time I checked this forum wasn't a dictatorship so I'll post something positive if I think Rittenhouse deserves it, but I'm not going to brown nose a company just to please you. The reason why Rittenhouse sets are cheap to complete suggests a soft demand which contradicts your claim that most collectors like them.

I don't care about dealers except for a few on this forum because I look after number one just as they do. I don't care if they make a profit I want a bargain.

Yep I support pack searching so feel free to call me a Judas and spit on me. Pack searchers do actually pay so it isn't stealing. Get a dictionary and look up the word. If people choose to buy from an opened box assuming they'll get hits then they're pretty stupid. Caveat Emptor.

Apologies for deviating off topic so to reiterate, mini archive boxes are a great idea, I would prefer them labelled but if not that's still cool too.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt_Blue:

Chuck man you have a dig about my views on Rittenhouse nearly every chance you get. I was actually impressed with them for taking a step in the right direction with these mini archive boxes.

Chuck last time I checked this forum wasn't a dictatorship so I'll post something positive if I think Rittenhouse deserves it, but I'm not going to brown nose a company just to please you. The reason why Rittenhouse sets are cheap to complete suggests a soft demand which contradicts your claim that most collectors like them.

I don't care about dealers except for a few on this forum because I look after number one just as they do. I don't care if they make a profit I want a bargain.

Yep I support pack searching so feel free to call me a Judas and spit on me. Pack searchers do actually pay so it isn't stealing. Get a dictionary and look up the word. If people choose to buy from an opened box assuming they'll get hits then they're pretty stupid. Caveat Emptor.

Apologies for deviating off topic so to reiterate, mini archive boxes are a great idea, I would prefer them labelled but if not that's still cool too.

Actually I don't. I've only posted in this thread and the Voyager thread, and in the Voyager thread I only posted that I disagreed with your views on that product and on Rittenhouse in general.

And it's not soft demands that make Rittenhouse sets cheap, it's the volume that they produce. If they had stuck with their original box run on GoT I don't think you would have seen the fall in prices you did on some of those cards.

And it's perfectly obvious that you only care about yourself. I bet you are also one of those guys who feels perfectly justified giving a kid $5 for a $100 card because "hey the kid must be stupid to accept that."

And just because you pay for the packs after pack searching doesn't make it right. And calling people stupid who buy from open boxes isn't right either. I believe there is a thread on these board dedicated to pulls from open boxes.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt_Blue:
Chuck man you have a dig about my views on Rittenhouse nearly every chance you get. I was actually impressed with them for taking a step in the right direction with these mini archive boxes.

Chuck last time I checked this forum wasn't a dictatorship so I'll post something positive if I think Rittenhouse deserves it, but I'm not going to brown nose a company just to please you. The reason why Rittenhouse sets are cheap to complete suggests a soft demand which contradicts your claim that most collectors like them.

I don't care about dealers except for a few on this forum because I look after number one just as they do. I don't care if they make a profit I want a bargain.

Yep I support pack searching so feel free to call me a Judas and spit on me. Pack searchers do actually pay so it isn't stealing. Get a dictionary and look up the word. If people choose to buy from an opened box assuming they'll get hits then they're pretty stupid. Caveat Emptor.

Apologies for deviating off topic so to reiterate, mini archive boxes are a great idea, I would prefer them labelled but if not that's still cool too.

You know, I have to say after reading this...You might not be breaking any rules here, stealing, or doing anything illegal as you have alluded to but you are breaking the spirit of what we want for our forum (the one we at Non-Sport Update pay for). And I do have a dictatorship on that.

I think im fine with the main archive boxes being labelled, aren't they mostly dealer incentives anyway? I mean as a 1-box at a time buyer i guess it would be better for me if they weren't, but i certainly understand why they are.

These mini-arhive boxes and hot boxes though, should definitely not be.


Also whats all this about pack searching? Apart from the shadow box cards, how can anyone actually tell if there is a sketch or an auto etc inside a pack?

Getting back ON TOPIC, I think the mini archive boxes are a great idea. Back when archive boxes were new, there wasn't really a lot of difference between them and a normal box from the outside. Now, archive boxes are very heavy with all the extra cards (eg parallel set) and sometimes 2 boxes are needed. Clearly, it's not reasonable to include them as surprise hits.

It seems to me that hot box (puzzle sketches) and mini archive boxes are a return to the bonus for buyer approach to increase the excitement of breaking and perhaps get away from just buying an archive box or a master plus whatever sketches in the secondary market. Breaking should be fun. So I'm hoping for unmarked.

Also, please don't read this as a criticism of archive boxes as dealer incentives. I like having incentives that give dealers extra money as it means I can buy boxes cheaper. The dealer has to make their profit over the whole run, so if the incentives for 18 cases can be sold for $2400 (archive box plus multiple 3/6 case incentives), then a case is $150 cheaper to me, and a box is over $10 cheaper to me. It's not like I miss out on anything.

I like the idea of mini archive boxes, but I think they would need to be somewhat common for me to buy off on them as added value. If they are one every 2 or 3 cases that could make breaking more fun, but if they are really rare (like one in 6 cases) then I don't see the added value. I would think they would need to be at least one in two cases so that they are more common than the three case incentive.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:
I like the idea of mini archive boxes, but I think they would need to be somewhat common for me to buy off on them as added value. If they are one every 2 or 3 cases that could make breaking more fun, but if they are really rare (like one in 6 cases) then I don't see the added value. I would think they would need to be at least one in two cases so that they are more common than the three case incentive.

There's 200 hot boxes and 200 mini archive boxes.if the production run is 6000 boxes??that means 1 hot or mini archive every 15 boxes.I like those odds.

I've skimmed through this thread and have this to say.

I like base cards. Yeah, you end up with extras. I only see that as a big issue for those trying to get many of the htf chase cards, but that's your choice. I use extras to get autographed. They can always be donated too.

Cherry picking boxes. Well, that's not often an issue now days. There's not many shops out there that have open boxes for buying packs. My LCS shuffles packs. I won't buy a box off ebay, unless it says sealed. Otherwise it's pretty much guaranteed it's been pillaged.