I ran across this trying to find a current value for the Jay Chou auto and actually passed by the auction multiple times. . .

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-...4:g:z7gAAOSwWPteZLOB

When I finally paid attention I just shook my head.

Why would anyone grade a set like this?

You can't even see the key card.

Also what are they even grading? The top of the top card bottom of the bottom card? The condition of the cellophane?

How could PSA grade a set? Are they certifying that EVERY card in that set is a least a grade 9?

Since most people wouldn't "unslab" the set, how can it be guaranteed that every card in the set is actually in there?

I would think they just grade what they can see...of the cards. I hope they're not looking at the cellophane but then again I don't know how or what they would grade it if the cellophane had a tiny tear in it. So maybe they are. But I also am wondering, how does anyone know for sure the Chou is even still in there? I would imagine those cello packs are easily resealable for someone that knows how. And having it graded knocks down the odds of someone ever opening that pack to about .01%. So no one would ever know one way or the other. I wouldn't trust that in a million years.

Well, I just found PSA's grading standards for unopened packs. Apparently they do indeed look at the cellophane. But I still wouldn't trust it.

For your enjoyment ....

GEM-MT 10: Gem Mint. A PSA Gem Mint 10 pack is a virtually perfect pack that should exhibit pristine corners and edges, which are free of any holes, tears or wear of any sort (including not having any wear to the corner folds). The seal on the reverse must be virtually undisturbed and free of any soiling or toning. The sealed folds on the reverse must also lay flush to the pack and not exhibit any lift from the seal. In addition, the pack must be "fresh" in appearance and free of any water or mildew damage to the wrapper or gum in order to qualify for this grade. There may be an allowance made for a small printing imperfection as long as the pack still shows superb eye appeal.

Note: The top card within a cello pack must be centered approximately 65/35 or better.

MINT 9: Mint. A PSA Mint 9 pack is a pack that appears to have all the attributes of a PSA Gem Mint 10 but it may exhibit one of the following flaws: a slight touch of wear on one corner (absent a hole or tear in the wrapper), minor toning or soiling to the seal on the reverse or a slight centering imperfection to the wrap. In addition, the pack must be "fresh" in appearance and free of any water or mildew damage to the wrapper or gum in order to qualify for this grade.

Note: The top card within a cello pack must be centered approximately 80-20 or better.

NM-MT 8: Near Mint-Mint. A PSA NM-MT 8 pack is a pack that exhibits similar attributes to a PSA Mint 9 but it may possess one or more of the following technical imperfections upon close inspection: Slight wear at one or two corners, a pin-sized hole at one of the corners, a wrinkle in the surface of the wax/cellophane wrapping, slight toning or soiling on the seal, very slight toning of the wrapper itself and/or a slight centering imperfection to the wrap. In addition, the pack must be "fresh" in appearance and free of any water or mildew damage to the wrapper or gum in order to qualify for this grade.

Note: The top card within a cello pack must be centered approximately 90/10 or better.

NM 7: Near Mint. A PSA NM 7 pack is a pack that exhibits similar attributes to a PSA NM-MT 8 but it may possess one or more of the following flaws: There may be slight wear on all four corners, a few pin-hole sized tears on the corners or edges, a very minor tear in the wrapper itself, light toning or soiling on the seal, and/or a small stain, possibly due to water or mildew damage. A small allowance may be made for very light gum bleeding or soiling through the wrapper, not to reach the size of the gum contained within. Note: This is also the highest grade a cello pack can receive if the top card is 100/0(miscut). Note: This is the highest grade a pack can receive if the wax wrapper is a complete manufacturer miswrap, where there is a severe centering imperfection to the wrap.

PSA EX-MT 6: Excellent-Mint. A PSA EX-MT 6 pack is a pack that exhibits similar attributes to a PSA NM 7 but it may possess one or more of the following flaws: Wear may be present on all four corners and/or the pack may show light tearing on multiple corners. In addition, the pack may exhibit light tears on the edges of the wrappers, wrinkles on the surface of the wax/cellophane wrapper along with other types of small surface defects. The reverse seal may have soiling or toning as a result of water or mildew damage, as long as it is not deemed severe. The gum or wax wrapper can begin to show bleeding or soiling through the wrapper, but it must be limited to the size of the gum.

PSA EX 5: Excellent. A PSA EX 5 pack is a pack that exhibits similar attributes to a PSA EX-MT 6 but it may possess one of more of the following flaws: Wear may be present on all four corners along with one or two clear corner tears and/or edge tears. Under this grade, a pack may exhibit staining or discoloration of the wrapper, possibly due to water or mildew damage. The surface of a cello pack may exhibit a large split through the protective wrapping. That wrapping may also be misaligned but, in order to qualify under this grade, a sizeable portion of the seal must remain secure. In addition, the surface of the wrapper may show soiling damage from the gum or wax.

PSA VG-EX 4: Very Good-Excellent. A PSA VG-EX 4 pack is a pack that exhibits similar attributes to a PSA EX 5 but it may possess one or more of the following flaws: Wear will, most likely, be present on all four corners along with holes and/or tears on the corners and edges. A severe tear to one of the edges may be acceptable under this grade. The seal may be misaligned and partly raised but a somewhat sizeable portion of that original seal must remain intact. The surface of the pack may exhibit some discoloration, staining or soiling, possibly due to water or mildew damage. A cello pack may have a couple of severe splits through the protective wrapping as long as all the contained cards are held securely in their package.

PSA VG 3: Very Good. A PSA VG 3 pack is a pack that exhibits similar attributes to a PSA VG-EX 4 but it may possess some additional, severe flaws such as moderate tears on all four corners and along the edges. The seal may be heavily worn and the pack may be visibly soiled. The surface can be discolored, stained and have heavy mildew damage that begins to bleed from the surface of the wrapper into the edges of the pack.

PSA Good 2: Good. A PSA Good 2 pack is a pack that exhibits similar attributes to a PSA VG 3 but it may possess some additional, severe flaws. Major tears may appear on all four corners and along the edges. The seal may have heavy soiling or even residue from a foreign source, which hinders the eye appeal substantially. The corners and edges of the contained cards may be exposed; however, the cards must still be held in place by the package and cannot show any evidence of removal.

PSA PR-FR 1: Poor to Fair. A PSA PR-FR 1 pack is a pack that exhibits similar attributes to a PSA Good 2 but it may possess some additional, severe flaws. Severe water damage may be present where it has seeped into the pack itself, affecting the cards contained within. In fact, the pack may show signs of warping as a result of the water damage. The wrapper may not be completely legible from staining, discoloration or other wear and tear but it must remain legible enough for the experts to determine authenticity. In addition, while the pack itself may be severely damaged, some portion of the original seal must be intact.

The PSA Unopened Pack Grading Approach
First and foremost, authentication is the most crucial step to the PSA grading process. With the prices generated by unopened packs in the marketplace, most notably in relation to vintage material, resealing and the outright counterfeiting of packs have been major industry problems. PSA will not grade any pack that has been deemed by the experts to be resealed, repaired or altered in any way. If a pack cannot pass this first step in the PSA process, the packs will not be eligible for encapsulation.

PSA does indeed grade sealed packs, sealed boxes and sealed cello packs, among other things. For the most part the reason is to ensure that the item has not been opened, searched, cherry picked and expertly resealed. That's very important to vintage issues or packs with the possibility of containing a high value card. Basically its a grade on the quality of the packaging and that it hasn't been tampered with. The cards inside are unknown, as is their grading condition, but with a cello pack some cards may also be visible. Not enough to allow grading though.

I don't know what this item is meant to be beyond the Mint 9 Cello Pack on the PSA label. The description says it has two #397 relics and the Chou autograph. Maybe you could tell all that before grading, maybe you couldn't. I don't know, but the PSA label doesn't say it either. Unless you break it open you can't confirm it and, if you break it open, there goes the grading.

I guess you could take that PSA number and ask them what it means to them or question the seller better, but I don't know if anybody would want to waste their time.

Makes my eye twitch a little.

First thing I would do is crack open that case.

You think that is dumb
I have actually seen wax unopened packs graded and slabbed for sale
How dose that equate what is the seller thinking
It was a couple of years ago and cant remember what it was, but it had the usual sales pitch inserts etc

piko, there really is a good reason to get an unopened pack graded. Ideally you are grading either a rare vintage pack or a more modern pack that MAY CONTAIN some very expensive card or cards. The allure of the unopened pack is the same as the attraction of the sealed box. It's "Schrodinger's Cat", you don't know what's inside until it's opened. Therefore such packs and boxes can be sold, not for what they are worth, but what they COULD be worth.

Now if you have such an unopened pack, whether it's 1952 Topps Baseball or a 2008 Ironman pack, you would get a premium over the going price if it got a decent grade. The most important aspect of such grading is the guarantee that the packaging has not been tampered with or opened and resealed. The whole point is that the important cards MAY be in there, not already searched and pulled out. With vintage wax packs it was really easy for an expert to open and reseal them in good order. Ideally grading services are supposed to be able to tell that and disqualify the pack. Do they? Hope so.

As to the grade, a higher package grade just means the hope of better card condition inside. If the packaging shows water damage, or looks bent or crushed in places, or is discolored, or filthy, maybe the cards might have damage too. If you see stains or water marks outside, there is a good chance the cards may have gotten wet. So its good to have packaging that grade high enough to show at least normal shortage.

While I did see a graded pack, I have personally not seen a graded box, but I do believe sealed boxes can be done for exactly the same reasons.

Now I do agree that if somebody is grading packs or boxes for the sole purpose of getting some gem mint rating, that is a waste of money. This "I must have only the best of the best" lunacy is beyond my understanding.

quote:

Originally posted by piko:
You think that is dumb
I have actually seen wax unopened packs graded and slabbed for sale
How dose that equate what is the seller thinking
It was a couple of years ago and cant remember what it was, but it had the usual sales pitch inserts etc

Coming from someone that hates card grading, I do think vintage wax packs look cool slabbed, it's a nice presentation.