@ Starchild & Chesspiece As much as I respect your opinions I still must point out that when you compare the cost of the cards we are talking about versus the seriously low chance of the parcel going astray (or being scammed) there is really no justification in stopping all low dollar card value shipping. Some of your comments assume that a buyer who truly did not receive hi/her goods would even bother making a claim for a couple of bucks. I'm damn sure that for the hassle involved I wouldn't do it. What ratio compared to amount of parcels shipped have you ever been 'burned' on? If it's more than 1:100 I would be stunned.
StarChild, I wasn't trying to put a guilt trip on you by saying that if you won't sell internationally it will kill the hobby, it's simply a reality. If you won't sell to me and you are the only game in town then that really is the death of my hobby. All I'm asking for here is to avoid the knee-jerk reaction of saying "Aaarrrghhh I've been burned for a few bucks once. Right! that's it then, no more overseas shipping"

I do most of my business outside the U.S. now but dont use ebay's horrible GSP. Waste of time and money.

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:


If sellers sell $2 cards and mail them with a stamp in a regular envelope with a top loader, they can be sent for $1.35 I think it is. That's well and good, but remember Ebay is taking 20 cents off the top and then another 13.5 cents out of the postage. Not a lot of people have the time to mail even simple letters for which they make $1.50. Add to the fact that the card isn't very well protected, and it's just not worth it. A little padded envelope with the card between two thin pieces of cardboard that comes in under 2 ounces still costs $7 to mail because it is considered a package and not a letter.


But the days of $1 and $2 cards sold internationally, one at a time, through Ebay anyway, are over for just about all sellers, and you are right, it does suck.

This is pennywise and pound foolish. If customers aren't worth your time what's the point of being in business? If you give customers a good experience for 99 cents, they will often come back and spend more- sometimes a lot more. No way to tell who will and who wont. The amount of sellers who look at "bottom feeders" with disdain on ebay message boards surprises me. I blame partly ebay for poisoning the relationship between buyers and sellers. The more customers the better... sure, there are going to be problems, loss and headaches, but that's business. If it's not worth their time maybe sellers would be better off working for wages.

I do work for wages, quite hard, and I am not in the card selling "business". I sell to be able to collect. Many small-timers on Ebay do the same thing, and this is especially true of sellers of niche collectibles like non-sport trading cards.

The business sellers with thousands of listings and with hundreds of thousands of feedback for completed transaction I'm sure would agree with you, and with their staffs of employees, they can send out $1 packages all day, but I am not one of them.

I have about 3,000 feedbacks on Ebay and it took 13 years to get those, with a sizable percentage of them having been giving to me for stuff I bought. No one would like to ship all items worldwide more than me, but it is not worth the trouble on lower priced items.

quote:

Originally posted by btlfannz:
@ Starchild & Chesspiece As much as I respect your opinions I still must point out that when you compare the cost of the cards we are talking about versus the seriously low chance of the parcel going astray (or being scammed) there is really no justification in stopping all low dollar card value shipping. Some of your comments assume that a buyer who truly did not receive hi/her goods would even bother making a claim for a couple of bucks. I'm damn sure that for the hassle involved I wouldn't do it. What ratio compared to amount of parcels shipped have you ever been 'burned' on? If it's more than 1:100 I would be stunned.
StarChild, I wasn't trying to put a guilt trip on you by saying that if you won't sell internationally it will kill the hobby, it's simply a reality. If you won't sell to me and you are the only game in town then that really is the death of my hobby. All I'm asking for here is to avoid the knee-jerk reaction of saying "Aaarrrghhh I've been burned for a few bucks once. Right! that's it then, no more overseas shipping"

I appreciate that, but all I can tell you is, amass a collection of cards that lets you list maybe a hundred auctions a month (where you personally do all the work of listing, answering questions, and mailing out the packages). Do that for 10 years, and then let me know if your opinion of what is worth what has changed. I think you'll find time is the only real commodity, and it is very valuable indeed.

And at the risk of incurring the righteous wrath of the moderators, I would love to sell cards to you in New Zealand, including plenty of inexpensive ones I have, and would gladly ship them to you at the lowest possible rate on a handshake deal that says if they are lost in the mail, that was a risk you were willing to incur for the purposes of getting a good deal. Unfortunately, that can't be done through Ebay, without the seller still bearing 100% of the responsibility for every single thing they ship without tracking, both the value of the item and the total amount of shipping costs, no matter what the buyer may have previously agreed to. Ebay does not recognize honor, only tracking numbers.

I wouldn't expect anyone to just "trust me" where there time and money is concerned, and I try very hard not put myself in that position either.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chesspieceface,

quote:

Originally posted by Starchild:


This new feature includes free electronic international tracking (as you have described) for sellers who print labels at home. The problem I see with it, other than it being a little time consuming, is that you need to be able to print the customs forms and place them inside the customs pouches that you need to obtain from USPS. Now, if I'm sending cards in a small bubble envelope, the customs pouch is way too big for the small package.)

Just a small aside You only need the envelope/ 3 pages of customs forms for pirority mail or express. First class international doesn't need an envelope. When cut down it fits fine in a basic bubble envelope.

OK, I read all the messages. And I'm not posting a moderator with righteous wrath, Chess. In fact, to make you feel better, I want to sell cards to New Zeland, too...ok, now that that's over
First off, I use endicia.com to print my postage.
I have two methods of selling overseas. I deal with mostly the same people all the time. We trust each other. My desire to protect myself is very low and my eagerness to get them cards is very high and in fact, I ship expensive items uninsured alot. The expectation is that they will bear the loss.
On ebay, I'm a bit more protective and send insured for most things. I do that because if I'm using ebay, which I don't do alot of, it's expensive, might be on consignment and is a good chance of being someone I don't know winning it.
However, for lower end items, (say under $50). I take my chances. The benefits of shipping to an international audience is more then worth the occasional lost package. And it's so darn rare for it to go wrong and it's rare to have a rip off artist. Cards are a passion and to ignore all the passion on the other side of the world is just..sad for the cards who want homes I totally respect that no one wants to lose money in any way, and to stay on topic, the ebay program may not be the way to go, but I totally suggest taking a chance on international buyers.
Endicia offers insurance. You can send it without signature confirmation or whatever rules ebay/paypal has about the *covered* way to ship. The best part is if you insure it and ebay dips into your account to take your money, you file your claim with endicia and get your money back. You're out the money for a few weeks, which sucks, but it's nice not having to go through ppaypal's process since they always side with the buyer. Endicia is more on my side. If the buyer won't work with you to file the proper paperwork endicia needs, they will accept a copy of the ebay/payapl dispute since they feel that is the same thing anyway. All while sitting at your desk
Sometimes it's eems like our community is getting smaller. We need everyone. I encourage as broad an audience as possible for ourselves and our hobby.

quote:

Originally posted by btlfannz:
@ Starchild & Chesspiece As much as I respect your opinions I still must point out that when you compare the cost of the cards we are talking about versus the seriously low chance of the parcel going astray (or being scammed) there is really no justification in stopping all low dollar card value shipping.

If they are selling on eBay, then even a handful of problem shipments can be disastrous. It's not just the loss of money on the items that go astray but the feedback and DSRs that can be left by the buyer. Even a single negative feedback can put off other potential buyers from making bids on the items they have on offer. Worse still can be the punishment that can be handed out by eBay for poor DSRs which only need to be in the low single figures to be significant.

I sell on eBay and do sell and ship low value cards internationally. For anything below £20 in value, I will use regular airmail but always get a proof of posting so that if it does go missing I can claim the money back from the Royal Mail. Standard cover on Airmail is upto £20 insurance included in the price of the 'stamp'. When the value goes over £20, things get a bit more complicated and decidely more expensive

quote:

Originally posted by STCardGeek:

quote:

Originally posted by Starchild:


This new feature includes free electronic international tracking (as you have described) for sellers who print labels at home. The problem I see with it, other than it being a little time consuming, is that you need to be able to print the customs forms and place them inside the customs pouches that you need to obtain from USPS. Now, if I'm sending cards in a small bubble envelope, the customs pouch is way too big for the small package.)

Just a small aside You only need the envelope/ 3 pages of customs forms for pirority mail or express. First class international doesn't need an envelope. When cut down it fits fine in a basic bubble envelope.

Ahh....thank you!

The other side of the coin...I had some cards up for trade. A prospective buyer contacted me and offered a fair price (wasn't going to sell, but they weren't shifting). I recognised the name, and refused to sell because the buyer wouldn't sell abroad on Ebay. I copied and pasted the quite snotty reply I got via Ebay about how untrustworthy foreign buyers, espically UK buyers were. Never heard from him again. A good 95% of my purchases are from the USA.

Oh and as much as the tracking feature is nice... to be fair....even if it says delivered...if the customers complains to ebay it didn't arrive, they will still find in their favor. Which kinda mkes it useless? Not completely useless though, I jsut had a client yesterday ask me to check on a package that hadn't arrived. It showed delivered, he looked around some more and found it. So, it can help...when the buyer is holding up their end!

quote:

Originally posted by STCardGeek:
Oh and as much as the tracking feature is nice... to be fair....even if it says delivered...if the customers complains to ebay it didn't arrive, they will still find in their favor. Which kinda mkes it useless? Not completely useless though, I jsut had a client yesterday ask me to check on a package that hadn't arrived. It showed delivered, he looked around some more and found it. So, it can help...when the buyer is holding up their end!

Are you sure about that? Got to say that goes against what I hear from UK eBay sellers, that if there is delivery confirmation a buyer will lose a case.

Ok I'm just going to through this one out there and you guys can debate it if you want.

I hate eBay. I hate PayPal. I have made more than a few contacts over the years, some dealers, some just collectors who also sell. They can all be contacted without a middleman.

Back before we had eBay you placed mail orders with known, reliable sources. And guess what, I still do. There is no buyer protection to be sure, but there is mail tracking, and I haven't lost anything yet.

While that may not be an ideal option for expensive cards, why can't you trust it for a couple of commons? Why can't you say I know this person, and they know I will pay it, and I know they will send it without jumping through hoops to get a guarantee that you are unlikely to need anyway?

Because no one wants to take any risk at all I guess. So eBay gives the guarantees, and makes up all the rules, and takes a healthy cut, while sellers have to protect themselves from eBay's rules, and certain buyers find that sellers are afraid to service them.

That is progress. I prefer the old way and I'll take my chances.

Ironically every sale as a buyer or seller i have had trouble with has been through ebay/paypal. Never had any trouble before ebay with lousy sellers or lost payments or packages using traditional mail order and money orders.

quote:

In fact, to make you feel better, I want to sell cards to New Zeland, too...ok, now that that's over
My desire to protect myself is very low and my eagerness to get them cards is very high and in fact, I ship expensive items uninsured alot. The expectation is that they will bear the loss.
However, for lower end items, (say under $50). I take my chances. The benefits of shipping to an international audience is more then worth the occasional lost package. And it's so darn rare for it to go wrong and it's rare to have a rip off artist. Cards are a passion and to ignore all the passion on the other side of the world is just..sad for the cards who want homes Sometimes it's seems like our community is getting smaller. We need everyone. I encourage as broad an audience as possible for ourselves and our hobby.

Thank you thank you thank you (for everything) You have expressed with this post my every sentiment on this issue. The world would be a better place if there were more people with your attitude.
PS We usually spell New Zealand with two 'a's but I forgive you!

I avoid those sellers who adopt this new way of shipping. I heard that first class now has tracking, so I hope sellers will offer it instead of the very expensive Priority mail, esp for low value item. Since I buy overseas, I always considered items lost until they arrive. I had happened but very very rarely. I always pay insurance for high end items.

quote:

Originally posted by WarriorBabe:

quote:

Originally posted by STCardGeek:
Oh and as much as the tracking feature is nice... to be fair....even if it says delivered...if the customers complains to ebay it didn't arrive, they will still find in their favor. Which kinda mkes it useless? Not completely useless though, I jsut had a client yesterday ask me to check on a package that hadn't arrived. It showed delivered, he looked around some more and found it. So, it can help...when the buyer is holding up their end!

Are you sure about that? Got to say that goes against what I hear from UK eBay sellers, that if there is delivery confirmation a buyer will lose a case.

Well, the only thing I'm sure of is my husband recently lost a claim to the Netherlands that online tracking shows as delivered and paypal took the money out of his account and put a *black mark* on his account.

quote:

Originally posted by jademaliburoad:
I heard that first class now has tracking,

This is currently only true for online label purchasing and printing those labels yourself. This is not true for items bought to the post office for postage purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by btlfannz:
@ Starchild & Chesspiece As much as I respect your opinions I still must point out that when you compare the cost of the cards we are talking about versus the seriously low chance of the parcel going astray (or being scammed) there is really no justification in stopping all low dollar card value shipping. Some of your comments assume that a buyer who truly did not receive hi/her goods would even bother making a claim for a couple of bucks. I'm damn sure that for the hassle involved I wouldn't do it. What ratio compared to amount of parcels shipped have you ever been 'burned' on? If it's more than 1:100 I would be stunned.
StarChild, I wasn't trying to put a guilt trip on you by saying that if you won't sell internationally it will kill the hobby, it's simply a reality. If you won't sell to me and you are the only game in town then that really is the death of my hobby. All I'm asking for here is to avoid the knee-jerk reaction of saying "Aaarrrghhh I've been burned for a few bucks once. Right! that's it then, no more overseas shipping"

Thank you and I appreciate that.

I can also understand what you are saying and respect how you feel. I am not in your predicament where you, for the most part, rely on sellers from overseas to maintain your hobby, but I can imagine it would drive me nuts not to be able to have the cards I want because someone won't sell to me.

However, I am just a seller (without a store)who primarily sells off her spare cards or items from her collections of comics, cards, whatever, that she no longer wants or needs. So, in my case, every dollar counts. Also, just the stress and worry alone about a shipped package until it does or doesn't reach it's destination outside of my country is just not worth it to me. As I said before, the thought of loss of the item, money and even the potential negative feedback that hurts me even more is too much of a risk.

Also, I'd like to add that I believe that yes, many people would file a claim over $1 or $2. There is a prevailing sense of justice needed when one feels they have been slighted. To some, getting their money back, being able to leave feedback telling others of their experience and having a middle man (ebay/paypal) backing them up is a true sense of justice for some people. I can't say I blame them, but that is how some feel.

For example, you lose $1 in a soda machine. It's aggravating in any sense, but some may choose to kick the machine, swear and walk away $1 lighter. Some try in vain to track down the store's proprietor or manager and try to get their $ back. Some may write the vendor and complain. It may not be about the money itself but a wrong "righted" instead.

Agreed that Ebay Global Shipping is a money grabbing scheme by ebay.

I recently saw a great deal on some cards for $150 and saw that postage was $20 and assumed it was USPS Priority Shipping so I thought great. But I then tried to pay and noticed that it was via ebays Global Shipping and that they wanted an extra $45 in custom fees so I stayed away.

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous to have to pay $65 in shipping fees. In Ireland we only ever get charged customs when shipped via USPS if it is a large parcel (eg. shipping sealed boxes) and even then its fifty fifty whether you get stung with fees or not. But when shipping a couple cards even if the cost is $150 we won't be hit by customs and therefore I give my business to sellers who ship via USPS. I've only ever had a problem with one package going missing and that was because the seller sent it to Iceland and not Ireland however we are a small country with a pretty good postal system so post rarely gets lost once in the country.

When selling (mainly to the US) I always use tracked shipping as I've been burned big time (I've no doubt the cards arrived and the buyer just said they didn't). It was my own fault for not sending tracked with signature confirmation which only costs $10 compared to the $20-30 in the states