Non-Sport Update's Card Talk
Scott Harben Cards
December 02, 2013, 05:18 PM
Tommy CScott Harben Cards
Anyone know anything about these cards sold at shows, which depict Marvel and DC superheroes, Star Wars characters, etc. ?
Specifically, I have seen people selling "sets" of cards #1-16. but I have also a seen a card # 20 of Darth Vader
How many are there ? Where are cards #17-19 ?
December 02, 2013, 11:05 PM
TattooxI only seen and have 1-16. I love them. But be careful talking about these. I made the mistake on facebook. Some people say that these are illegal and damage the card community. I disagree. There's a fine line on what's legal and what's not. Basically no different than prints, which makes nearly every artist out there breaking the law.
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December 02, 2013, 11:26 PM
webjonPrints of trademarked and copyrighted material are absolutely illegal -- any artist that produces them is definitely breaking the law -- there isn't even a gray area there.
On topic -- I've never heard of these cards.
December 02, 2013, 11:51 PM
Tattooxquote:
Originally posted by webjon:
Prints of trademarked and copyrighted material are absolutely illegal -- any artist that produces them is definitely breaking the law -- there isn't even a gray area there.
On topic -- I've never heard of these cards.
Because they're part of the illegal underbelly of the art world.
Well, some people state that it is legal if less than 100 are produced. I use to read when it came to statues, that less than 10 was okay.
Illegal or not, the license holders are not prosecuting. It's been going on for years.
There was a time that California was prosecuting those that sold promo cards.
Call the cops, because I have bought prints, sold promos, and have driven over the speed limit. Looks like most of us will be going to jail.
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December 03, 2013, 01:10 AM
webjonquote:
Originally posted by Tattoox:
quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
Prints of trademarked and copyrighted material are absolutely illegal -- any artist that produces them is definitely breaking the law -- there isn't even a gray area there.
On topic -- I've never heard of these cards.
Because they're part of the illegal underbelly of the art world.
Well, some people state that it is legal if less than 100 are produced. I use to read when it came to statues, that less than 10 was okay.
Illegal or not, the license holders are not prosecuting. It's been going on for years.
There was a time that California was prosecuting those that sold promo cards.
Call the cops, because I have bought prints, sold promos, and have driven over the speed limit. Looks like most of us will be going to jail.
Uhh. . . why would I call the cops. . . I'm not making any judgements here. . . Just stating facts.
While a lot of this activity isn't pursued by the license holder some of it is, in fact very recently (in the last few months) a license holder went through a big show and stop the sale of a pile of prints and originals of materials they owned the licenses to.
No one got sued (to my knowledge), but some people did lose gigs over it (reportedly). . .
There isn't even a gray area here. . . 1 is not legal, let alone 10 or 100. . .
December 03, 2013, 01:30 AM
Tattooxquote:
Originally posted by webjon:
quote:
Originally posted by Tattoox:
quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
Prints of trademarked and copyrighted material are absolutely illegal -- any artist that produces them is definitely breaking the law -- there isn't even a gray area there.
On topic -- I've never heard of these cards.
Because they're part of the illegal underbelly of the art world.
Well, some people state that it is legal if less than 100 are produced. I use to read when it came to statues, that less than 10 was okay.
Illegal or not, the license holders are not prosecuting. It's been going on for years.
There was a time that California was prosecuting those that sold promo cards.
Call the cops, because I have bought prints, sold promos, and have driven over the speed limit. Looks like most of us will be going to jail.
Uhh. . . why would I call the cops. . . I'm not making any judgements here. . . Just stating facts.
While a lot of this activity isn't pursued by the license holder some of it is, in fact very recently (in the last few months) a license holder went through a big show and stop the sale of a pile of prints and originals of materials they owned the licenses to.
No one got sued (to my knowledge), but some people did lose gigs over it (reportedly). . .
There isn't even a gray area here. . . 1 is not legal, let alone 10 or 100. . .
I wasn't implying you personally call the cops. And FYI, AMC stopped licensed products from being sold. Well, requested it stopped. The artists should have sold what they wanted. Anyway, big deal that it was so called banded from one convention. AMC hasn't hit any others at this point.
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December 03, 2013, 09:51 AM
David RWebjon,
Here are pictures of the artwork on some of the cards. Someone mentioned elsewhere on Card Talk that he sells these at conventions
http://harben-pictures.deviantart.com/gallery/December 03, 2013, 10:54 AM
David RThe cards I have seen are
1- Captain America
2- Wonder Woman
3- Han Solo
4- Darth Talon
5- Red Skull
6- Wonder Woman
7- Black Lantern Batman
8- Slave Leia
9- Catwoman
10- Cyborg Maul
11- The Hulk
12- Ms. Marvel
13- Supergirl
14- Iron Patriot
15- Yoda
16- Hawkgirl
20- Darth Vader
December 03, 2013, 01:13 PM
JakeI like these. I saw them at his table during SDCC this year. Would have sworn he was upto 27 so far but don't quote me.
He sells them but also uses them as business cards too. Which is how I got 1 when we were talking about metal possibilities
December 03, 2013, 11:14 PM
TattooxUpdated your list.
quote:
Originally posted by David R:
The cards I have seen are
1- Captain America
2- Wonder Woman
3- Han Solo
4- Darth Talon
5- Red Skull
6- Wonder Woman
7- Black Lantern Batman
8- Slave Leia
9- Catwoman
10- Cyborg Maul
11- The Hulk
12- Ms. Marvel
13- Supergirl
14- Iron Patriot
15- Yoda
16- Hawkgirl
17- Iron Man
18- Thanos
19- Bat Woman
20- Darth Vader
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December 04, 2013, 08:58 PM
RavenI've never seen or heard of these cards, but if they lack copyright it puts them in the catagory of novelty items at best. By that I mean, they will never be worth more than what you paid for them and they can be printed forever, so the production number is unknown.
In short, they have zero value.
That doesn't mean that they might not be attractive or have enough fans to create a market. I believe it is the responsibility of license holders to enforce their rights and if they don't want to do it they are only hurting themselves. As long as buyers know that these types of cards are illegal and therefore worthless, they can spend their money as they choose.
Just don't confuse the issue, no copyright means no pricing, no value. This has always been true in the card industry and as webjon said, its not a gray area.
December 04, 2013, 10:02 PM
Tattooxquote:
Originally posted by Raven:
I've never seen or heard of these cards, but if they lack copyright it puts them in the catagory of novelty items at best. By that I mean, they will never be worth more than what you paid for them and they can be printed forever, so the production number is unknown.
In short, they have zero value.
That doesn't mean that they might not be attractive or have enough fans to create a market. I believe it is the responsibility of license holders to enforce their rights and if they don't want to do it they are only hurting themselves. As long as buyers know that these types of cards are illegal and therefore worthless, they can spend their money as they choose.
Just don't confuse the issue, no copyright means no pricing, no value. This has always been true in the card industry and as webjon said, its not a gray area.
You never watch those pawn and storage shows? Everything has value.
You never bought any prints from conventions and/or ebay?
I guess I'm a renegade. I have all sorts of prints. Signed "illegal" cards from releases that where later sued over and ones that where supposed to have been destroyed. That reminds me, I found my extra Star Wars stamps yesterday that I should sell soon. Slip them by Disney on the Bay.
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December 05, 2013, 07:11 AM
allenderI watch the pawn and storage shows, and most of the contents of a storage room go straight to the nearest dumpster. They only show film for the interesting stuff. Auction Hunters even started with the message "these are the guys' most valuable finds".
On the whole, trading card collections have not done well.
December 05, 2013, 07:44 AM
Tattooxquote:
Originally posted by allender:
I watch the pawn and storage shows, and most of the contents of a storage room go straight to the nearest dumpster. They only show film for the interesting stuff. Auction Hunters even started with the message "these are the guys' most valuable finds".
On the whole, trading card collections have not done well.
That's not my point. Everything has some sort of monetary value to someone.
I bought the first 16, and I'm working on the last 4. Just like with most cards I buy, it's a great way to own art that I appreciate.
I doubt there's a single collector on here that doesn't own something that could be considered illegal or bought it illegally.
How about those old promos that said "not for resale" or something to that affect. Basically, promos are not meant to be sold, and at one time was illegal to do so in California. Might still be.
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December 05, 2013, 11:20 AM
RavenWell this thread was started to talk about some cards that apparently were produced without a copyright permission. As I said, these are novelity items and if collectors want to knowingly mingle unlicensed cards with their genuinely produced cards that is their choice. If they are unknowingly doing it, they are being scammed.
Cards or prints reproduced without proper licenses are generally poorly made and will not appreciate in value. They are counterfeit merchandise. Is there a market for such merchandise? Sure there is! Just look at all the fake designer bags and clothes and bootleg DVDs. People buy them all the time. Are they as good as having the original? No. If your girlfriend takes her diamond engagement ring to be appraised and she finds out you gave her a CZ will she be happy?
No matter how you may try to spin it, unlicensed cards hurt manufacturers who have to pay huge sums for the permission to make authentic cards. They should be enforcing their rights, but that's up to them. If people want to buy unlicensed stuff that's up to them also, but I would never advocate it because the items are just not genuine collectibles. They are fakes and that makes them worthless, even if there is a market for fakes.
December 05, 2013, 02:24 PM
David RRemember back in the early 90s all of those illegal Bart Simpson cards ?
Bart knows this, Bart knows that, etc. I believe some are listed in PCE
December 05, 2013, 03:11 PM
Tattooxquote:
Originally posted by Raven:
Well this thread was started to talk about some cards that apparently were produced without a copyright permission. As I said, these are novelity items and if collectors want to knowingly mingle unlicensed cards with their genuinely produced cards that is their choice. If they are unknowingly doing it, they are being scammed.
Cards or prints reproduced without proper licenses are generally poorly made and will not appreciate in value. They are counterfeit merchandise. Is there a market for such merchandise? Sure there is! Just look at all the fake designer bags and clothes and bootleg DVDs. People buy them all the time. Are they as good as having the original? No. If your girlfriend takes her diamond engagement ring to be appraised and she finds out you gave her a CZ will she be happy?
No matter how you may try to spin it, unlicensed cards hurt manufacturers who have to pay huge sums for the permission to make authentic cards. They should be enforcing their rights, but that's up to them. If people want to buy unlicensed stuff that's up to them also, but I would never advocate it because the items are just not genuine collectibles. They are fakes and that makes them worthless, even if there is a market for fakes.
That's your opinion on value, and that's true about the legal stuff. Yet as I said before, I highly doubt you or anyone here has not had some sort of so called illegal transaction.
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June 06, 2014, 11:31 AM
David RAnyone know if there are any more cards in this set ? Anything beyond # 20 ?
June 06, 2014, 04:54 PM
TattooxScott says he will have new ones at SDCC.
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June 09, 2014, 03:00 AM
Justice41most of the so called art is just manipulated cosplay pics. ask the guy to draw something as you watch at the next con, if he can't he's a fraud.