Wow. My concern is that someone is printing fakes of high quality. I may have to review my purchases. How can I even be sure what I have if real?

Oh no, now I'm worried. What's the chance of someone having TWO DeForest Kelley's for sale at the same time?

http://www.ebay.com/csc/happyg...=p3911.c0.m270.l1313

Thats remarkable,there all exactly the same.that is strange.Anyone with low feedback like the 2 sellers that have been highlighted today everyone should stay will clear!!

quote:

Originally posted by ajdedo:
Wow. My concern is that someone is printing fakes of high quality. I may have to review my purchases. How can I even be sure what I have is real?

If something is worth a lot of money somebody will be producing fakes. If you are going to deal in high end autographs you should know exactly what you are doing before parting with any money.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:

quote:

Originally posted by ajdedo:
Wow. My concern is that someone is printing fakes of high quality. I may have to review my purchases. How can I even be sure what I have is real?

If something is worth a lot of money somebody will be producing fakes. If you are going to deal in high end autographs you should know exactly what you are doing before parting with any money.

Dont forget,it happens in all walks of life.i also collect coins and ive seen fakes of them.if something is expensive,there will always be people wanting to 'cash in' with fake copies..

See anyone faking a 1p coin??100% no,but a gold coin??100% yes!!

Just be careful,use your common sense!ask lots of questions and do research on the items your interested in!

quote:

Originally posted by goldenavenger:
Well if it was a scam surely I would have lied saying it was authentic?! I dont state its authentic or its a replica but surely the price speaks for itself as where can you buy an authentic one for £99??... hope this helps, Scott

This guy sees nothing wrong with what he's doing, which the worst is not describing exactly what you're bidding on. I have no intention of buying the card but hate to think of someone getting taken.

This is a common rationalization that I have heard before from people who knowingly peddle fakes, oh excuse me, replicas.

"It is the buyer's fault for being fooled, but you're losing less than you would be if I was a real crook, so you should happy with your purchase."

Kind of adds insult to injury.

One upon a time you could warn buyers on ebay because their username was listed in those bidding, but now it is coded you can't.

You can find the buyer's ID when the seller either receives feedback from the buyer or leaves feedback for the buyer. I don't know what recourse the buyer would have if he or she leaves positive feedback. I thought there was some sort of exclusion in the buyer protection policy that prevents the buyer from filing a claim after leaving positive feedback.

Hrmm. Looks like someone placed a bid. Too bad, I really feel sorry for them.

This really ticks me off. I hate how people are cheapening the hobby. This really ruins it for everyone.

Wow, that is an amazing catch. . .

I'll be posting this on webjon later, does anyone care if I quote their conversations with this guy?

Jon

No problem webjon but I would suggest not using our names!!! I personally think this is a fraud rather than someone trying to sell fake cards.

I don't mean to direct any blame towards the buyer but come on...

...stock photo
...cheap price
...no info on card in the main listing (rarity or set it came from)
...no mention of condition
...doesn't accept PayPal
...low feedback
...almost no feedback as a seller
...no history of selling cards, let alone ones as rare as these

The listing has 'buyer beware' written all over it! Even if I was a Trek fan and wanted this card I'd blast the seller a few e-mails to ascertain some more details to make me feel a little less uneasy about the transaction. Given the seller is honest to a fault (re: basically admitting he's a crook) I don't see why anyone who was even a little bit savvy would be duped by a listing as poor or by a scam-artist as clueless.

What are the rules in the UK? Can you run an auction without taking PayPal?

The auction details says PayPal is the payment option but the description says otherwise. Hope the buyer pays with PayPal and can file a claim against this clown.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by X:
I don't see why anyone who was even a little bit savvy would be duped by a listing as poor or by a scam-artist as clueless.

You're right of course, but the curse of wishful thinking makes fools out of a lot of people who should have known better. They believe against all evidence because they want to believe and, when they finally realize that they have been taken, they are shocked and angry.

So yes, a fool and his money are soon parted, but the con man shouldn't get away with it either. As silly as this listing is, somebody fell for it. And what's worse, this junk gets into the secondary market and will be passed around like a hot potato. That's assuming that there even is a card, which in this case there might not be.

eBay will let it go until someone complains and then it may shut it down or the seller may just disappear for another year. That's not saying much, but its probably the best you can do.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Wow, that is an amazing catch. . .

I'll be posting this on webjon later, does anyone care if I quote their conversations with this guy?

Jon

No problem Jon, you can use what I posted.

(From other posts) No matter what you say about the buyer I think the seller was very deceitful. He knew the details, he knew it was a copy(replica), he knew it wasn't official....yet he left all those details out of the description. His intention was to screw someone over. Period.

It's not fair at all to say the buyer should know better, this is quite clearly fraud, the seller lists that you are buying "You are bidding on the A9 William Shatner autograph card ONLY"

The bold is mine. Obviously this breaks all kinds of eBay rules and laws, but to say 'buyer beware' unfair.

This is the time of year my wife goes out and tries to look for nice cards for my collection. Is it fair to say that she should know better? This whole blame the consumer/poster/etc kind of ignores the basic problem that this guy is committing fraud.

I just hope the buyer discovers the fraud before leaving feedback and before their time limit to getting their money back expires.

Thank you for catching this, and pointing it out. . . Getting information out helps the entire community.

Jon

And thank you guys for letting me use your quotes (actually mostly his, probably), I'll look at posting tomorrow.

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
It's not fair at all to say the buyer should know better, this is quite clearly fraud, the seller lists that you are buying "You are bidding on the A9 William Shatner autograph card ONLY"

The bold is mine. Obviously this breaks all kinds of eBay rules and laws, but to say 'buyer beware' unfair.

This is the time of year my wife goes out and tries to look for nice cards for my collection. Is it fair to say that she should know better? This whole blame the consumer/poster/etc kind of ignores the basic problem that this guy is committing fraud.

Jon

Of course its fair to say the buyer should know better. Mark knew better enough to start this topic didn't he? All the information that set off the alarm bells for him were available for the eventual buyer weren't they? Yes the title makes it clear what you'll supposedly be getting but everything else about the listing ticks every box for a classic dodgy auction.

Plus, its not like the seller went to any effort to make a professional/convincing looking listing, its a straight copy and paste job with next to no information, and if this thread has proven anything it is that there should be NO reason a buyer should be taken in by this auction as the seller even admits he is selling a fake if you so much as ask.

Lets get one thing straight, I'm not "blaming the consumer" and thereby excusing the seller. The sellers actions are unambiguously wrong because as you say, he's committing fraud. That said, if buyer's had a little more common sense and hesitated at such obviously suspect listings, nobody would buy from the fraudster no matter what **** they are peddling, no matter how 'tempting' the price.

I admire the fact that you try to look out for the interests of consumers Jon but what so wrong about saying I think buyers should screen their sellers a bit more thoroughly (especially when spending this kind of money?

To answer your question, if your Mrs was not the Star Trek expert I'd hope that if shopping on eBay she might at least be familiar with the tells of a dodgy auction... low feedback, rubbish pictures, next to no information on the item, refusal to accept PayPal, oh wait as I've already said, everything that exists in this listing. Plus I'd hope she'd be familiar with the completed listings facility which with even a cursory glance would show the original listing from which this fake card has been replicated.

Nobody likes being duped or ripped off but I'm sorry, I have absolutely no sympathy for lazy buyers who are taken in by sellers who are this unprofessional in their efforts to con you. In an unregulated market place like eBay you have to rely on yourself to make sure you get what you think you're getting. I don't mean to be such a cynic but I often think buyers who are taken in by such obviously bad listings need to learn some eBay lessons the hard way.

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
What are the rules in the UK? Can you run an auction without taking PayPal?

The auction details says PayPal is the payment option but the description says otherwise. Hope the buyer pays with PayPal and can file a claim against this clown.

Ed

Ed

You can't run a sale without paypal - the seller originally didn't have paypal as a payment option but I think a few people reported the "no paypal" and the seller has added it. Of course they might ask for another payment - hopefully the buyer will insist on paying by paypal.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Obviously this breaks all kinds of eBay rules and laws, but to say 'buyer beware' unfair.

This is the time of year my wife goes out and tries to look for nice cards for my collection. Is it fair to say that she should know better? This whole blame the consumer/poster/etc kind of ignores the basic problem that this guy is committing fraud.

Getting information out helps the entire community.

Jon

I don't think you were reading our posts in the vein that they were intended. No one said that the seller should be allowed to commit a fraud, quite the opposite. He is a con man who is cheating people by giving them a worthless "replica" of the card they thought they had, or more likely perhaps giving them nothing at all. Bringing public attention to it will hopefully end it.

Having said that, eBay buyers have a certain amount of responsibility to protect themselves. I am in total agreement with X here, this was a pitiful listing with red flags waving all over the place. I'm sorry that anyone fell for it, but to acknowledge that people have to act smarter when they are buying anything on eBay is just the truth.

Getting out that information does help get people to be more cautious and ask more questions, but they have to walk away when something doesn't look right. And if they are buying high end items and can't tell what looks right and what doesn't, either with the seller's data or the item itself, then they should run away and come back when they know more. Buyer beware is always excellent advice, but especially so on the internet.