quote:

Originally posted by Kevin F:
There is another line to this discussion that just popped up in my daily emails from eBay. What do people think about after market autograph cards ? My email from eBay was about new arrivals for Blake's 7 cards. It contained 8 new cards autographed by memebers of the cast. No real problem there except that two of them were clearly dated 2018 and used gold ink which was not part of the original set release back in 2014. The asking prices are quite eyewatering too

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125420500989

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125420500999

I am not familiar with these cards, but to me if they were released by an actual licensed manufacturer they are all good.

quote:

I am not familiar with these cards, but to me if they were released by an actual licensed manufacturer they are all good.

That's the problem. The autographs have been acquired long after the original sets were released. The seller, presumably, obtained some blank autograph cards somehow and then got them signed at a convention or similar. While the right person appears to have signed the card, there is no guarantee that that was the case. Only the autographs that were put on the cards by the manufacturer are 'guaranteed' as being authentic. A fan getting one signed at a con is not. Selling these as authentic autograph cards for the official release is basically a lie.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin F:

quote:

I am not familiar with these cards, but to me if they were released by an actual licensed manufacturer they are all good.

That's the problem. The autographs have been acquired long after the original sets were released. The seller, presumably, obtained some blank autograph cards somehow and then got them signed at a convention or similar. While the right person appears to have signed the card, there is no guarantee that that was the case. Only the autographs that were put on the cards by the manufacturer are 'guaranteed' as being authentic. A fan getting one signed at a con is not. Selling these as authentic autograph cards for the official release is basically a lie.

Agree -- if they weren't released signed by the manufacturer I'd avoid them.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin F:
There is another line to this discussion that just popped up in my daily emails from eBay. What do people think about after market autograph cards ?

Personally I would never use the term "aftermarket autograph card". I don't know that anyone is doing that and, if they are, I'd watch out. Something is not right.

This is a whole other topic, and it combines the preferences and established standards of two separate hobbies. You had card collectors and autograph collectors, and the autograph card collector was a bastard son. Then along came the hybrid certified autograph card and autograph card collectors got legitimate. People don't realize that card collectors did not want genuine in-person autographs added to their cards. They felt it destroyed the card's mint condition and rendered the card value actually worthless and now priced solely by the value of the signature.

Autograph collectors wanted 8x10 display photos signed if they were high end, or it was index cards, scrape books and programs for the old school guys. For sports stars the big money autos were on jerseys, balls, bats and whatever game used stuff they could find.

The certified pack pulled autograph card didn't show up until the early 90s and the odds were generally 1 out of 1000s of packs. The concept of 1 per box or 1 per premium pack didn't take hold till the late 90s sports cards and wasn't widely used in non-sport products until we crossed 2000. I remember Inkworks started me off for real, but I had many signed cards from comic artists that came out of packs way before I got my first certified entertainment autograph card.

It was only after certified autograph cards became the primary hit that it became a whole different in-demand collectible by itself. That was because for the autograph was guaranteed authentic and the entire item became its own licensed card with both parts of card value and signer value merged as one offering.

Now to me, to claim something as an aftermarket autograph card really means nothing because you are right back where you started from with an unauthenticated signature on a damaged card. If the signature is not on a certified card its either a Through The Mail (TTM) or an in-person. In-person is either going to be "I got it signed in front of me" or "Someone else told me it was signed in front of them". Each one of those is much, much less reliable than having a licensed certified autograph card and that's why you are paying hundreds and thousands of dollars more in some cases. It's for not having to prove that the signature is real and for having a fully licensed card with a verified print run that will not be reproduced. The shorter the print run the better, with numbering better still.

A signed base card isn't aftermarket. The card is merely the material used and it never was licensed for the autograph, so it's not a modification. A custom card made for the purpose of getting a signature is not aftermarket. As nice as it may look, the card was never licensed and approved by any one and the autograph has no guarantee. A custom cut card would be the same thing.

If you took a blank autograph card and got it signed at a show it's still an in-person with better documentation. The blank card was either never officially issued by the card maker or it was released without the signature, so that card in that form when signed by someone has lost all licensing. It's a dangerous card to have and it's ripe for forgeries because the card stock has not been counterfeited. I hate un-voided blank cards and wouldn't give them the cover of suggesting there could be an aftermarket designation for them if they got signed by somebody.

That's just my opinion, except for the evolution of the acceptance of the autograph card, which is fact. If those Blake cards were not signed coming out of the product, and I don't know those cards either, you don't have the guarantee of the card maker or the signer without seeking further proof.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

My biggest problem with unsigned cards being released is that it lowers the integrity of the manufacturer which is generally out of business when the cards are dumped. For cards that were actually inserted in packs the question of why there are still blanks is probably a good one.

Because card companies are supposed to represent the business of the collector the right thing to do with cards not used is to destroy them. Fortunately we don't see this sort of dumping with too many sets.

I have no real problem with getting these cards legitimately signed. In most cases the cost of a con signature rivals the value of a pack pulled card. If the card was never part of the set it is up to the collector to know that.

In the few cases where the card is super valuable or the celebrity has passed away a slab will be required.

I have almost a complete set of blank Blake's 7 auto cards for both series. I got them from one of the usual sellers of Unstoppable cards some years ago. I cannot remember however if they have been "holed". I will have to find them and check.

regards

John

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
I have almost a complete set of blank Blake's 7 auto cards for both series. I got them from one of the usual sellers of Unstoppable cards some years ago. I cannot remember however if they have been "holed". I will have to find them and check.

regards

John

There is a complete set of unsigned Blake's 7 autograph cards up on eBay right now. They have got a hole punched in each card.

I only have original signed autograph cards from the Blake's 7 releases in-hand. Though I also have an unsigned, unreleased autograph card from the somewhat controversial Strictly Ink Ray Harryhausen set. But it does have a hole punched in it

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Because card companies are supposed to represent the business of the collector the right thing to do with cards not used is to destroy them. Fortunately we don't see this sort of dumping with too many sets.

I think the dumping happens a lot more than people know.

I just did a quick search on ebay in the non-sport card section for "unsigned" -sketch -- had to put unsigned in quotes otherwise it was returning all kinds of garbage. . . but right now there are hundreds of unsigned cards listed on eBay from just about any manufacturer you can think of: Topps, Artbox, Breygent, Comic Images, Rittenhouse, Dart, Strictly Ink, Inkworks, Donruss, etc.

Many of these are being sold by large dealers, and I would bet that most of these dealers are sitting on many copies of these cards.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:

If the card was never part of the set it is up to the collector to know that.

Yeah, I agree with you. . .

That said. . .

It isn't always exactly easy to figure that out -- I mean, sure we are all savvy, and we know where to look, but I imagine for a new collector it has to be daunting.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Because card companies are supposed to represent the business of the collector the right thing to do with cards not used is to destroy them. Fortunately we don't see this sort of dumping with too many sets.

I think the dumping happens a lot more than people know.

I just did a quick search on ebay in the non-sport card section for "unsigned" -sketch -- had to put unsigned in quotes otherwise it was returning all kinds of garbage. . . but right now there are hundreds of unsigned cards listed on eBay from just about any manufacturer you can think of: Topps, Artbox, Breygent, Comic Images, Rittenhouse, Dart, Strictly Ink, Inkworks, Donruss, etc.

Many of these are being sold by large dealers, and I would bet that most of these dealers are sitting on many copies of these cards.

Still doesn't represent that many sets. Most of the Breygent stuff with the gold sticker states just a few copies and that everything else was destroyed. Seller has a long running good reputation.

Also using unsigned can bring up products that were legitimately offered as both. I think in most cases many of these cards are still super limited. I would consider it legitimate collectible. Not something I would be interested in but still.

Further to my comment about blank Blakes's seven cards on the 19thn July I have now looked at my blanks and I have a complete set for both series One and Two and none of them have a hole punched in them, I also have some blanks from The Saint that also have no holes.

Interestingly I also have from Unstoppable's The Avengers 50th an autograph card that appears to be unsigned until you turn it over where it has been autographed on the back!

regards

John