It's always fascinated me how a really high quality card with a lovely photo can be worth next to nothing whilst a plain uninteresting card can be worth loads of money purely down to rarity.
I just got the new Bond cards and the quality of the cards in the Solace base set is really good and yet the set is being virtually dumped by the dealers due to the amount made.

Would you or have you spent loads of money on something you didn't really like that much just because it was allegedly rare?

Never always buy what I like! Could be a dollar or a thousand dollars just as long as I like it.

No, not me, and I think there are a number of factors in play when it comes to that question of quality vs. rarity. Supply is certainly one factor, but it is nothing without demand.

Rarity can be documented, if 25 cards were made that is the supply and it is set in stone. Demand on the other hand can not only fluctuate due to normal factors, but it can be influenced and can be exceeding stupid. Demand can be like the lemmings running for the sea.

Sometimes demand is based on hype alone. Sometimes it is sparked by an event that will have a short life span. Sometimes demand has it's roots in something that concerns the set, rather than the card itself. A short printed autograph of a very minor actor can have great demand for collectors building the complete set. I hate when card companies pull that one.

And then there are the cases where rarity means absolutely nothing. Check eBay and see how many 1/1s, 1/5s, 1/10s are listed. Many are sticker autographs from hodge-podge sets. You can't get more rare than a 1/1, yet there is zero interest because demand does not exist for whatever reason, even if there is quality.

Speaking of quality, that is also undefinable. What I regard as a great autograph card someone else might see as a filler. I have often said that I prefer secondary autographs to the primary role because it is the same authentic signature, but the card may cost 20% of the price. Others want only a primary card because they regard that as the quality product.

And sketches, let's not even go there. That market is totally subjective and nearly all sketches can be called 1/1s.

It's a good subject, I could ramble on, but I'll leave it for others.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
It's always fascinated me how a really high quality card with a lovely photo can be worth next to nothing whilst a plain uninteresting card can be worth loads of money purely down to rarity.
I just got the new Bond cards and the quality of the cards in the Solace base set is really good and yet the set is being virtually dumped by the dealers due to the amount made.

Would you or have you spent loads of money on something you didn't really like that much just because it was allegedly rare?

I saw a UK seller offering the Quantum sets for £4 with FREE postage, so practically giving them away. I agree the quality is great: a large set for a modern film, loads of great images, quality thick card stock, different images + text on the cardbacks... it seems almost criminal a set can be had so cheap. I'd happily pay a tenner for a set as nice as these if dealers were brave enough not to dump the 'common' stuff.

I have spent a few more quid more than I would like on the odd autograph card here and there for completion's sake, but I'm done doing that. I much prefer paying exactly what I want for cards I REALLY like. I might have to wait a while to get particular cards at the price I think they're worth, but I certainly don't overpay (or try not too!) and certainly do not buy cards I don't like or want!

To be honest I can only think of two examples of having done so:

1. Inkworks Tomorrow Never Dies Instant Winner Card: A pretty unremarkable looking card but as rare as rocking-horse-****. Hard to put a price on it given its rarity. It doesn't look like a £75 card (what I paid for it), although it is certainly 'worth' more. But it was case of thinking whether it was worth paying the asking price just because I was unlikely to get the chance to obtain one again, so I ponied up to complete the master set.

2. You'll hate this wolfie(!) but Halle Berry WOB auto from Bond Archives 2014. Not a big fan of the actress or her character in Die Another Day, but I am aiming for every main/memorable Bond Girl card so she is an essential addition. Unfortunately her widespread popularity and the rarity of the card meant I paid a lot more than I thought it should have cost.

But what about you wolfman???

I wish I could say this tactfully, But I Can't.... for almost Every dealer I know....
Base Sets are Industrial garbage...basically can't give a base set away.

I got in a lot of trouble for saying this on a different forum. Most Collectors buy a box...so they have a Base set (Most sets you get a base set in every Box).

I bust cases..... I have tons of base sets....Noone wants them.

There are rare sets where the base is wanted..... but that's beyond rare...

people want the Autos or Sketches or some other Chase card.

I wish it was different, can't give away Base sets... I even tried putting in an Auto in every set....doesn't work anymore.....

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Rarity can be documented, if 25 cards were made that is the supply and it is set in stone.

This is where you have to be careful, if the manufacturer states only 25 were made that is one thing, however, if you assume only 25 were made because that's how many were put in the boxes or were numbered you can come unstuck big time

Kryten67 - Now you are getting to the heart of the matter, which might seem to be going off topic, but it really is the biggest part of it. Just who are card manufacturers designing these current products for, dealers or collectors? The secondary market or the front line collector? The box buyer, the case buyer, or the multiple case buyer?

As a box buyer, there is no question in my mind that all new premium, major title sets are designed for the dealers and secondary market sellers. The inserts, the gold parallels, the short printed autographs, the sketches and autographs that are randomly seeded, the multi-case incentives, they are all configured for case breakers. Even the larger base sets done in some premium products require more than one box to complete.

I can certainly see from your point of view why you would complain about those products that still have a full base set in a box. The example here was the Bond QoS base, but that same premium product has three other retro sets in it that are virtually uncompletable through box buying.

As a small collector, I'm still spending $60 - $80 a box on an average product, so there has to be something in it to give me some minimum level of value back. I do expect a cheap base set at the very least. Don't forget, dealers are still selling the boxes to collectors. Box buying has not been cost effective for a long time already, but I still do it to get a chance at a big hit and to get a base set. However when it comes to the point that I lose too much money for too little value and I can't complete anything, I must stop. It will not benefit dealers when small collectors cut back, it won't benefit anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

Rarity can be documented, if 25 cards were made that is the supply and it is set in stone.

This is where you have to be careful, if the manufacturer states only 25 were made that is one thing, however, if you assume only 25 were made because that's how many were put in the boxes or were numbered you can come unstuck big time

Well I was talking about those cards that have numbers etched on the backs. Manufacturers almost never give you hard numbers, sometimes ranges like RA for Ls and ELs, etc., but they will always have extras that are not seeded. And they can still play games with the same card, or almost the same card, getting numbered 1 of 5, and then another batch 1 of 25, etc.

So it's still documented, but who are you going to sue if you find another 100 come out in the next set? Bottom line is that you buy what you like at a price that is reasonable to you and don't believe that it will be an heirloom some day.

I mentioned this a while back with regards to the number of parallel sets out there. There may be a card with an image you love. The base card is worthless, but the exact same card, with with a different color border, and stated number (1/100, 1/10, 1/1) can become very pricy.

Its interesting when showing off my collection to family and friends who are not really into the hobby. I will show them a card of some obscure person or character and say this is valuable because it's got a blue or red border (and would be even more valuable if it had a pink or rainbow border), but this other card of a famous character with a standard border is not worth anything. To them the card with a picture of James Kirk or Luke Skywalker is much more interesting then one of Trulane or Mon Mothma (regardless of the border color).

As far as overpaying for a particular card, I may eventually spend the money for the Star Trek 35th Kirk / Spock auto (a combination of a card from a popular set, having big time stars, Having autos, and being rare), but other than that, cannot see myself breaking the bank for any card regardless quality, and who is on the card, (and especially for something that almost seems forced like a 1/1 Rainbow Border card #36)

There was a time where I would bust a case or three. Those times are long gone. Now I can't remember the last box I bought. As someone above described, cost and return had something to do with me quitting. However, there is an AMAZING array of decent inexpensive sets from decades past out there. Sometimes I let the theme subdue my interest, then I see them and my mind changes. Gimmickry used from numbering to foil-stamping, or insert the gimmick of your choice doesn't even have the luster it once had. IMHO, the days of manufactured collectibles being investments (yes...even our precious collections) are long gone. Does that investment mindset drive product...like you wouldn't believe. Is it reality? You can just about type anything into ebay, craigslist, or go to a show and see stuff that it almost costs a seller to bring to give away. Now if you're a collector, that could be an opportunity. But it isn't sustainable...also MHO. People have dropped out of various collecting arenas like crazy. Remember how many card shops there used to be? ...how many card magazines there were? ...card manufacturers? shows? etc? How many can honestly say they make a living solely on collectibles these days? I spoke to a former card shop owner in Canada who got more from burning the remainder of his stock in his woodstove than he could have recovered selling at steep discounts...IF people wanted them.

Don't get me wrong, I still have a collector's appreciation. I would just rather have a cheap card I got someone to sign in-person, than an expensive card someone else got signed in person...even if that means there are a lot of people out of reach. I realize I am not the one driving sales these days. As someone who lives near the center region of the US...those opportunities don't come often either.

It is amazing to me that I can find an artist on this forum who will make me a custom OOAK for far less than a Wacky-Vision (TM) insert card with genuine simulated nose hair braids from someone standing next to a celebrity at a photo op. And the folks who are doing their own customs for topics...especially with limited market appeal is fantastic. I'm still trying to amass images for my first attempt.

Sorry...did I ramble?