So I must admit I am a little stumped when it comes to grading cards. Maybe it only matters for older/vintage cards, but when is it important for newer cards?

For instance if I have a modern common I personally consider it a "9" and any flaw on it makes it a "0". Am I right in assuming this is the case for most collectors? In the comic world (where I am more versed) people will collect all grades all the time...but I just can't see this in the card world (except for the oldies).

In comics you can say that a 9.0 might only be worth 90% of a comic in 9.4 condition. But in cards is an 8 x% less than a 9?

Well in my personal opinion once you start trying to decide if a $1 promo that came out last week is a 9 or an 8.5 then you should immediately go out and get a life or simply shoot yourself.

There, I think we know where I stand.

I don't find 0, 9 and 10 as the only grades acceptable because there are many ways a card would have little flaws but still very attractively collectable.

Lower grade is easier to spot if the card has boarders, the more the image is oriented towards one side, the lower the grade. After that corner points and edge sharpness would be the next easy to spot, then the surface smoothness. Faded colors, especially yellowish whites would probably come next.

This pretty sums up the grading:



Personally, I only give much importance to the corners and edges for my collection when buying and as long as the surface has no noticeable scratches.


Let's say int this card the image is off-centered, it will definitely be graded lower than a centered one. The centered one is more visually-appealing, right?




Also, I think comics are more prone to lower grades because of their size. Plus, the staples and fold crease may create crease marks if not immediately backed with cardboard.


So, it all comes down to visual attractiveness.
The high grade, I think, is more of a guarantee of the quality for long distance transactions and also for bragging rights.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: juke,

I'm a little baffled myself as to the importance of grading modern non-sport. With certain cards it does seem to bring a premium. Examples I've seen are 1997-1999 Star Trek TOS autographs, 2000 Topps X-Men autographs, Dark Angel Jessica Alba, Transformers Megan Fox, Tomb Raider Jolie, certain Star Wars autographs, etc. But for most other modern cards it means nothing. If anything it hurts the value. And with Beckett grading so many fake non-sport autographs it may be having the opposite effect as intended. Some people are actually avoiding graded cards because they think they're fake. I used to be a fan of grading but once I realized the so many other collectors would not want or buy a graded card, it changed my perspective. I know if grading makes me happy I should do it, but I don't feel comfortable voluntarily doing something that may actually hurt the value of the card if I ever wanted to resell down the road.

Yeah I agree trying to grade a NSU promo isn't worth it. But say it is a $100 card. Theoretically if it is say 9.0 it is $100, maybe a 9.5 makes it $110, and a 10.0 makes it $125. If it is a 2.0 does that make it a $5 card? Or is there really just no market for it?

So when I track my collection I just track everything as 9.0. I have seen a few other collectors collections and they just track as to whether they own it or not. Is it essentially this simple for the most part? I either own it or I don't and the condition doesn't necessarily correlate with the value?

The best thing about grading is the protection aspect of the case.

quote:

Originally posted by dough boy:

Yeah I agree trying to grade a NSU promo isn't worth it. But say it is a $100 card.

It is a big thing with sports cards as to the grading / price ratio but in non sports an autograph card with a guide value of $100 is just that, there is no special price because it is graded 9 instead of 8. If the card is not obviously damaged in some way then it is still a $100 card.

Grading non sport cards, sport cards, comics and coins are all unique.
Comics: a 9.8 and above on Silver and Gold age usually sparks insane 1000's of dollars in difference in price.
Coins: a point difference in grade can mean the difference in hundreds of dollars.
With Non sport cards with the exceptions of a number of sketch/prop/autograph cards a large majority of the hobby is below the 100.00 mark. Grading just doesn't make that much of an impact in my opinion. The encapsulation is nice.

Thank God grading of non-sport cards never took off like it did in the sportscard market for awhile. There is a place for it with very specific cards and under certain circumstances, but it makes no sense for the vast majority of cards in my opinion.

First of all, the big plus for grading was supposed to be that you would get a premium on the selling price of a high grade card. Two problems came up. If you are a collector, you are probably not selling right now, so why pay the fee for grading? And sometimes grading has the opposite effect of a premium. If your modern era card did not get that 10, or 9.5, or even 9, no one would want to buy it. You wouldn't be able to get book price, so plenty of people were busting the slabs when they came back with less than perfect grades.

Now modern era cards must get 9 and higher to be acceptable. That's because those cards were manufactured to be collectibles, had few printing errors and generally went from pack straight to plastic holder or binder. Its debatable what you call modern era, but I like to say after 1985, because that's when everyone knew there was a market for cards and adults were collecting.

Prior to 1985 you have vintage cards and they are judged differently because they were not being kept in pristine condition and many were in short supply because they were handled and destroyed. If you have a 1960's baseball card an 8 might be a great rating. Many years were prone to specific problems like double lines, off colors, chipping on black borders, wax stains etc. If the majority of the cards had these same problems it has a lesser effect on the grading. If its a really old card from the 1930's a 4 might be the best grade you can find and it might earn a premium.

A great reason to get a vintage card graded is to ensure that it is not a counterfeit and has not been repaired. A lot of times chipping on black borders was "fixed" with black marker. Holes were filled in, tears glued together. Not all collectors know enough to see repairs or pick out conterfeits. Graders are supposed to be able to do it, so here is a good reason to have a vintage card graded if it has enough value to warrant it.

I would not grade a modern non-sport card, not even the valuable ones. I would not buy a graded non-sport card if there was a non-graded card available. I would not pay any premium for the grading. I really don't trust the experts doing the grading to get it right.

And when it comes to autograph cards, you have to know that most graders do not verify the autograph, only the condition of the card. If you want an autograph certified you have to go to specific companies and you have to pay extra for authentication. Then you have to hope that they know what they are doing, because I must say that I have seen many a fake signature, pre-printed autographs and even stamped signatures in slabs.

Thanks for the insight. You mentioned "ERA's". Are there defined era's in trading cards? Or is this too subjective?

quote:

Originally posted by dough boy:
Thanks for the insight. You mentioned "ERA's". Are there defined era's in trading cards? Or is this too subjective?

You know that's a great question. I think in terms of card era's, but I don't believe there is any universal acceptance of defined years. If there are, I would like to know what they are too.

I pick 1985 as the break between vintage cards and modern cards simply because card prices started to take off and sportscards became a mainstream adult collectible around that time, but its just my subjective year. Someone else might say vintage cards are pre-1960 or modern cards are post-1990.

I do also think that the modern card era has taken its own turn and there should probably be a different name for cards after 1999, maybe ultra modern. And if you look at the changes that have occured in non-sport cards just in the last three years, its pretty remarkable how far and how fast its advancing in terms of the way cards are being manufactured and the types of premium hits that have now become expected in products.

I consider 1989 as the first year of the Modern Trading Card Era. Upper Deck had been the catalyst. They developed and published its first baseball set with UV-coated cards, a holographic imprint and with imagery on the reverses. Space Shots, in 1990, was the first non-sport set I recall employing the technological Upper Deck model.

For sports cards, I agree the modern era began with Upper Deck in 1989. They absolutely revolutionized how sport cards would look going forward, and raised the expectations for all collectors to the point where other companies had to adapt or get crushed. The more venerable Topps, Donruss, and Fleer baseball cards made a quantum leap in quality between 1990 and 1992. They had to in order to compete with the innovations Upper Deck.

For non-sports, I'd say the Marvel Universe series 1 card set from Impel in 1990 marks the beginning of the modern era. These were remarkable in that they contained original art created specifically for the set on high quality white card stock and even hologram chase cards. The set sold so well, that sequels were immediately released, and a high end version, Marvel Masterpieces were issued in 1992. It was the success of these sets that spurred the 1990's trading card boom that resulted in many more kinds of sets outside of superheroes.

It is hard to imagine there will ever be another 5 year period where a larger quantity and variety of card sets were issued than the one between 1991 and 1996.

I don't know what cards would look like or how many would even be made these days without the success of 1989 Upper Deck baseball and 1990 Impel Marvel, and it's no coincidence those cards still look as good today as they did coming out of packs nearly a quarter century ago.

You're right, I forgot about Impel. NSU covered Marvel Universe in the Oct. 1991 issue (Vol. 2, No. 4).

I'm not really a Trek fan, but Impel's ST products from 1991-92 were real eye-openers. These contained the first randomly-seeded inserts that I recall.

I see in eBay and other selling sites a lot of modern grade Non-Sport cards. The worst thing to see is the cards chosen for grade. More than 75% are just common base cards. The worst scenario common base cards from Comic Images, Rittenhouse and Upper Deck.

Who is going to pay $18 for a Captain America Movie #1 graded card?

The split from vintage to modern seems to vary with people over a few years, 1986-1989. I personally go with 1987 in sports and around 1990-91 with non-sports.

Rule of thumb with me on grading is pretty much vintage only. I am a member of PSA and have only graded two cards for myself, one from 1983 and one from 1956. Of course I can't afford much vintage which is why it has only been two cards!

So I am hearing late 80's is a split between "vintage" and "modern"? Are there levels to vintage? I.e. victorian, golden, etc?

quote:

Originally posted by dough boy:
So I am hearing late 80's is a split between "vintage" and "modern"? Are there levels to vintage? I.e. victorian, golden, etc?

Not that I am aware of, and as you can see that year of divide for vintage to modern cards depends on the collector. I fully understand why people are saying 1989 because that is the year Upper Deck put out its first baseball card.

I would still argue for 1985 because the sportscard market really went mainstream around that time and the card that made waves before UD came on the scene was the Michael Jordan Star rookie. I do agree that if we are talking about non-sport cards only, then it would start with the Marvel sets in 1991 - 1992.

But as I said there is no universal acceptance of any specific years. As cards get older I think collectors should make up more terms than just modern and vintage. The non-sport cards of the past two years are very different than cards of say 1998, yet we are all putting them in the modern era. We need a newer era.

The Beckett Monthly Price Guides for the 4 sports also began in the late 1980's and early 1990's and that was a huge boost for the hobby, widely accepted monthly price reports.

I'm inclined to agree about the mainstreaming of sports card in the mid 80's, but the card stock, photo quality, and general production values were still fairly primitive on those sets. 1989 Upper Deck card was positively futuristic looking compared to the efforts of Topps and Donruss at that time. Cards from Score had better technology, but the garish colors used on their sets which began in the mid 80's ultimately hurt the interest in those cards.

Even so, the original Wally Joyner and Jose Canseco cards in the 1985/86 baseball sets were a huge draw bringing in sports fans to the card hobby who hadn't necessarily collected cards before then.

The Michael Jordan 1986 Fleer Basketball rookie card was a sleeper at first, but within a year or two helped to really expand the demand for basketball cards which were among the most popular of ALL cards by the early 1990's. Jordan could sell just about anything in those days.

The 1989 Ken Griffey Jr. Upper Deck Baseball Rookie card, despite it's value having come down substantially from its peak, is still the most important sports card of the modern era, whenever it began, 1980, 1985, 1990, 2000, or last week. The quest for that card created a multitude of new collectors and really helped the establishment of the third party graders like PSA and BGS who gained the traction they still have today as leaders in the field in large part as a result of the desire from collectors to attain perfect examples of the 1989 Griffey and the early Star and 1986-87 Jordan Rookie cards.

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:

The 1989 Ken Griffey Jr. Upper Deck Baseball Rookie card, despite it's value having come down substantially from its peak, is still the most important sports card of the modern era, whenever it began, 1980, 1985, 1990, 2000, or last week.

I love that card, even looking at it today. I remember when UD came out late in '89 and I ran around trying to buy packs at the unheard of price of $2.50. I think the SRP was $1.50, which was already the highest pack price ever, and then dealers marked it up because every sportscards collector was buying them just for the #1 Griffey alone. I wound up with 6 and at one point I think it was close to $200, again unheard of for a new card. Now it can be found for around $20 , but that card is still beautiful. Yes, it was a milestone.