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What is the state of counterfeits in entertainment cards?
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Platinum Card Talk Member
posted
I haven't followed what has been happening in the hobby with regards to counterfeit autographs in the last several years as my collecting focus shifted. . . I don't see many people talk about counterfeits anymore.

Clearly with the increase in prices the profit motive for counterfeiting autographs has never been higher.

I'm starting to look at filling in some gaps in my collection now and I'm wondering what the current market looks like.

Is anyone looking for counterfeits anymore? I have to assume they are out there still. . .
 
Posts: 5429 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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I don't know if there is a "state" of counterfeit non-sport cards but it is always a concern with any collectible of this sort.

I think most of my purchasing practices put me in a low category for being taken in by counterfeits but knowing the real product is the best defense. Card companies have done much to make the process more complicated. I always look for those features when I receive anything I purchase.

If you get something that is questionable there are always the online chat boards to run a comparisons with. Blow out forum has received some notoriety for calling out certain card company discrepancies.
 
Posts: 4913 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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So I'm assuming we are talking about the counterfeiting of certified autograph cards only, not counterfeit autographs in general.

It isn't an easy or casual thing to counterfeit a certified autograph card. Both the card has to be made, complete with any watermarks or seals or security additions, and the signature has to be forged. If its a high dollar card, which is the only kind it would make sense to do this way, it will also probably be a short printed card. It's not like anyone could do 1000 fake cards on something that had 50 copies and not be noticed.

With today's technology and the prices of some sports cards in particular, signed and unsigned, I wouldn't say its impossible or that someone isn't doing it. However I also don't see it as being necessarily a "state" of the hobby because it isn't a general problem the way that fake autographs on uncertified cards or merchandise is a recurrent big problem.

Now what I have always worried about and frequently mention is the release of unsigned certified cards into the market by either the card makers or other unknown sources. An unsigned certified card can be signed by anyone and then you have a fake autograph on an authentic card. Go ahead and find that for sure if the card was released. If the card was never release, the buyer still has to know that or believe the story that it got signed some place else. Licensed unsigned certified cards should always be destroyed by the maker or permanently marked. They are too dangerous to get into the wild, but they do.
 
Posts: 10479 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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How about the Hammer Horror autographs from Cornerstone. They were a generic design with a place for the autograph.

There are unsigned cards around of those, now i get one of those and get some actor from a Hammer movie to sign it.

Now i have an authentic card with a proper autograph on it but this card was never in the set.

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Posts: 29012 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
How about the Hammer Horror autographs from Cornerstone. They were a generic design with a place for the autograph.

There are unsigned cards around of those, now i get one of those and get some actor from a Hammer movie to sign it.

Now i have an authentic card with a proper autograph on it but this card was never in the set.


An authentic card yes, but not an authentic certified autograph card because the card maker just made a card with a blank space. You're right, that's just asking for trouble and you, as the owner who got it signed, would need documentation to prove the signing or it would just be an unconfirmed signed card.

These are grey areas that cause confusion and much of it is because the card makers don't think things through. Just as those easily removable little gold star stickers make it impossible to trust expensive Star Pics autograph cards of the early '90s.

Someone is always going to take advantage of it, but only for certain things. Is there a big demand for old Hammer Horror autographs? Maybe a few, but common signers are generally not worth any professional effort to mass produce forged signatures on anything.
 
Posts: 10479 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
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Yeah, that is the concern of unsigned autograph cards leaking onto the market. Generally, these aren't big money cards anyway so the danger level is low. Sellers tend to greatly overestimate the value of many of them and that actually helps the hobby because no one is going to buy a $60-100 card and get it signed (or fake the signature) for something that sells for MAYBE something over $100.

One example of that would be the Roger Moore autograph card from The Saint (SA1) by Unstoppable. I've definitely seen an unsigned sample of that offered from about $70 to over $100. There's no money in buying that card and faking the signature because other sellers have offered the real autograph for around or even less than $100.
 
Posts: 4429 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mykdude
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Generally speaking collectors know when unsigned cards are out there. They have just as much potential to be signed by the celebrity as a forged signature. It's really up to the buyer to figure out which is which.

I don't really consider such things as counterfeit in the sense that a fake card is produced to look like a real one.

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Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable.
 
Posts: 4913 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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Thanks everyone. . .

Back when I was researching cards I was finding very questionable cards that were in the $20 range -- the one that comes to mind is Brian Krause from Charmed. This has never been an expensive card, it has watermarks and foil stamping. . .

So I always assume it is possible a card I am looking at has been faked.

It has been a number of years since I've paid attention to counterfeits so the counterfeiters have had a number of years to fake more cards, an I'm sure technology has improved over those years.

I have seen cards get called out on Blowout from time to time.

I appreciate the help.

Thanks.

BTW -- for what it is worth I just checked eBay for what I consider pretty obviously questionable cards and I wasn't able to find as many as I was expecting.
 
Posts: 5429 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
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The other issue is that misprints and cuts are certainly more rare today but they do happen.

Sometimes if you look too close you may claim an honest production error as counterfeit.

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Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable.
 
Posts: 4913 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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I found this thread on Blowout interesting.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/...thread.php?t=1488437

Might want to take a look if you are an autograph collector.
 
Posts: 5429 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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I don't know I have seen some sloppy Pike autographs on this card.

I pulled mine out and don't see anything as far as print flaws or centering issues on the card they are talking about.

This set was before RA started to use raised water marking so it would be an easier card to recreate. Still you would need some skills to remove the autograph from the background in order to put another on with ink. Not to mention perfect color matching and centering to the original. It is not easy to counterfeit a card and to go through all that work for just one is generally not cost effective.

The poster keeps saying auto pen, if it was auto pen it would look like her signature.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

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Posts: 4913 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Platinum Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
I don't know I have seen some sloppy Pike autographs on this card.

I pulled mine out and don't see anything as far as print flaws or centering issues on the card they are talking about.

This set was before RA started to use raised water marking so it would be an easier card to recreate. Still you would need some skills to remove the autograph from the background in order to put another on with ink.


Check out the completed auctions.

The Josh Holloway card was pretty interesting to me. Dots at the end of the signature, but also the quote around the name Sawyer is backwards compared to other Holloway autographs from the set I see for sale on eBay.
 
Posts: 5429 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:

Check out the completed auctions.

The Josh Holloway card was pretty interesting to me. Dots at the end of the signature, but also the quote around the name Sawyer is backwards compared to other Holloway autographs from the set.


Pike signed at least 800 cards for this set. To think some of them wouldn't get sloppy is a bit naive. Would I pay full price for the one in question? Absolutely not, but when we are talking about counterfeiting a whole card we need a bit more than just a bad autograph. Unfortunately so many photos on ebay are terrible. You may not be able to tell until you can physically hold the card and compare it to a good one.

Same thing with Holloway. Maybe he is signing everything one way over and over again and then decides to change a couple of the cards up. I know it is something I would probably do.

There is much more to look at than just a questionable signature.

As a buyer, if you are uncomfortable with it...don't bid or bin or whatever.

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Posts: 4913 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here's mine.
The little squiggle underneath makes it worth four times as much.
As much as what, I don't know.

 
Posts: 2509 | Location: USA | Registered: November 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mykdude
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Mine has the full "P" and defined "e" it's gotta be at least 6 times more valuable. Smokin'


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Posts: 4913 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To each their own, but the misprinted quotes are odd to me on this specific card.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: webjon,
 
Posts: 5429 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mykdude
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Ahh ok....I was thinking something else. Oh yeah...that's a concern but it does happen in printing. Could have a genuine error card.

I don't know how hard your examples are cropped but there is more space over his head in the suspect card as well.

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Posts: 4913 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Also to the left of LO in his last name there is a 'hump' in the 'O' in LOST in the background that doesn't appear on this particular card.

And the space to the left of 'JOSH' is different on this card than on the other 3.
 
Posts: 5429 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Ahh ok....I was thinking something else. Oh yeah...that's a concern but it does happen in printing. Could have a genuine error card.


It is also the only signature of the 4 that have 'dots' at the end points.
 
Posts: 5429 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mykdude
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Plus the A in Authentic is on the word Lost. Definite fake.

Still not with ya on the Pike. Wink

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Posts: 4913 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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