This thread possibly will go with a couple of other threads on this forum recently I asked about the best price guide to purchase as most trades by members are dine on a comparison to the prices in the N S U guide a couple of the answers were that the guide was just that a guide this seems to be born out by some recent prices that i have seen in the E Bay sold listings I cannot seem to pull them up as mu computer seems to only hold about three weeks of info but I will only mention two items there are more but the two will do For instance prices are by recollection Buffy Connections PWC-1 listed from memory over$200 and purchased at that Guide price &66.00 and the next sold item below it was the same card sold for &45.00 Another item is Supernatural 2 SDCC preview set Renegades wich i cannot find listed has been advertised at over $90.00 bu a seller and at least two have been purchased at this price I put this on my watch list and missed the first couple but got my one $10.00 and the first two were about the same
Do the collectors that buy these items do not care what they pay do they think that it is the only one it seems that they do not do any research as they seem to have more money than anyone else dont get me wrong I probably have done the same but at least i have put the card on a watch list as the old adage is everything comes to those who wait and that is true EG the Supernatural set I have had it on my watch list for about 4 years and it has only come up about 5 times dose that make it rare no as it is a SDCC issued Inkworks set and SDCC sets do not seem to be rare items you cannot blame the seller for their greed but these percieved prices seen by other sellers are gospel and keep the prices at an artifical high or do they and the sellers dont care

The price of the 2003 Buffy the Vampire Slayer Connections Pieceworks PWC-1 in NSU is $25-$60. The other 2 cards (PWC-2 & PWC-3) are $40 each. But from looking at the 'Bay asking prices, it would seem like sellers don't want to let the PWC-1 of the Buffy & Spike costume card go that low. Then it's up to the buyers if they want to pay $50, $100, or even $150 or more for it depending on how the fabric looks.

Not sure how much the Supernatural 2 SDCC preview set sold for originally from Inkworks at the show. But I would guess that some sellers have already made their money back on those sets and now are selling at a price that they are comfortable with. If it doesn't sell at their price then they are okay with it. Not sure if that means that the sellers don't care though. Does that make the set prices artificially high? Perhaps.

There are many reasons why you may find wild fluctuations in the asking prices of cards and why those prices may be significantly different than what gets printed in a price guide. And by that I mean, you might find them way higher or way lower than stated. I'll give a few off the top of my head, but there will be a lot more reasons collectors can think of . . .

Price guides go out of date real fast when it comes to newer product. Older cards have settled in and can be stagnant, but a new release will usually show the first wave buyer's peak for about 6 months and then prices were steadily drop as early demand is satisfied on most of those cards and average sets.

There is a big difference between buying BINs and buying through auctions. The seller sets the BIN and the buyer agrees to it, but where an auction winds up is more unknown. BIN prices reflect factors involving the seller, but auction prices can simply be a matter of luck. Mostly bad luck if you go by me. I have paid too much generally with auctions and now prefer to stick with reasonable BINs if I can.

Both sellers and buyers can be uninformed and lazy. Just because there is a price guide listing doesn't mean that anyone has looked at it.

Sellers can just be sheep, just following other sellers who are all trying to undercut each other. This is known as the race to the bottom.

Sellers may have too much product, or have already made money on big cards, or need money to cover new purchases, or just need money fast. This is when anything they have gets dumped and they will accept even low offers.

Buyers may have more money than sense or may just be so pumped to get something new that they will overpay without knowing or caring.

Buyers can get sucked into an auction where no one wants to give up or maybe someone is shilling. You can go way too high in the end and be very sorry.

The price guide itself might just be plain wrong or useless, again for many reasons. High and low sales are always thrown out to establish the average middle price range, yet most of those very high and very low sales are legitimate transactions and somebody completed them. The average range is too broad, like $40 - $80. Well which is it? The price guide is perhaps rarely adjusted for established cards, so some recent changes in demand never show up on the page. Or it could just be that the guide is coming up with prices on cards that you have never seen in your life.

That's just a handful of stuff I can think of at 4AM, but there is a lot more. Point being, you have to set your own price range on whatever card you are looking to get. You can research, but don't follow a price guide. Just consider it a piece of information. Set your high price for what you think its worth to you and do not go above it. If you get a great buy, it's all the better, but don't cheat yourself. There is absolutely no reason to overpay. Unless its a 1/1, or some incredibly limited top tier card, its almost a certainty that you will see that card again someday at a price you like.

Read the price guides, but don't believe them. The list of recent eBay sales is a much more accurate snapshot of what's going on with a particular card at any given time. That's my best advice on the subject.

If your having trouble viewing ebays sold items, there are 3rd party sites that keep this information.
I use http://www.watchcount.com/ its pretty useful in giving you an idea what items are selling for, it also tells you what items went unsold, which can be very useful too.

Ultimately as has been stated the guide is just a guide. . . There are many avenues that can be used to price out cards -- eBay, COMC, eBay history, forum BST threads, dealer sites etc. . . The big difference is that these are actual points of sales data, or actual offers to buy or sell. . .

In trading there isn't one single source of value, and it isn't uncommon for someone to value their item as much as possible and value what they want as low as possible. Your example is great for illustrating that.

What is the PWC-1 worth? Well if you want to buy one today there is a buy it now for $125. Recent sales have been at $50, $99 and $150. If you are acquiring it is most beneficial to you to say the value is $50 -- the minimum recent sale -- if you are selling it is most beneficial to sale the value is $150 -- the maximum recent sale. What is the actual value? Clearly based on the selling prices it is all of those. The question really is -- what is it worth to you, right now.

When you are trading both parties are doing the same determination on both of the cards. . .

The higher the value, and the rarer the item the more complicated this tends to get. . .

At the end of the day do as much research as you can and find a price you are comfortable with.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: webjon,

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
The price guide itself might just be plain wrong or useless, again for many reasons. High and low sales are always thrown out to establish the average middle price range, yet most of those very high and very low sales are legitimate transactions and somebody completed them. The average range is too broad, like $40 - $80. Well which is it? The price guide is perhaps rarely adjusted for established cards, so some recent changes in demand never show up on the page. Or it could just be that the guide is coming up with prices on cards that you have never seen in your life.

That 50% difference from the high to the low price seems pretty typical when looking for collectibles related to trading cards and even toys. The timing and availability play factors in how much the buyer is willing to pay. A personal example, there was a toy that I saw at the Disney Store for around $30 and was going to wait to get it during the usual end of season sale. Unfortunately, it sold out a couple weeks prior even the online store was out. I saw it at a comic book show a while for $175. That was a little too high for me, the dealer was will to let me have it for $160 though. I was "only" willing to pay $75 for it since it was going to be a present. So as once my range to purchase it was below $30, it changed because of circumstance to between $30 - $75. Sidenote, after I didn't "need" it any longer I watched the toy ranged on 'bay between $55 - $125.

Even the August/September 2018 issue of NSU has ranges that differ from it's $5.99 cover price. Subscribers get it for around $4.67, but I'll throw that price out as too low. Today, I bought an issue for $5 (promos included) at a card show. When I got home I noticed on the 'bay one sold for $6.99 plus $5.99 shipping and another $6.99 plus $3.99 shipping. There was even one that sold for $9.09 plus $7.80 shipping from the U.K. but that one can be the "too high" price that gets thrown out also. So probably due to the various Outlander promos, it seems that the current issue of NSU can range between $5 - $13, but with some effort a person can find it at B&N for the $5.99 cover price (plus tax at some place).

quote:

Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:
That 50% difference from the high to the low price seems pretty typical when looking for collectibles related to trading cards and even toys. The timing and availability play factors in how much the buyer is willing to pay.

This is a very loose rule of thumb that was explained to me years ago when there still were dealers at card shows and price guides had HI and LOW columns.

The dealer wants to sell YOU the card at the HI price and wants to BUY from YOU the card at the LOW price, assuming he/she deemed it in good demand. Thus a sale doubled his/her money.

This formula was later revised when dealers decided that they couldn't get the HI price on most cards because even good ones weren't always in great demand. So they started to claim that they sold at half price bargains, which was really the LOW column. The rub was that, since they were now selling at LOW, when they bought any cards from customers it would only be half of that amount. Meaning they wanted to buy at only 25% of HI book price, if they wanted to buy at all, more often usually not.

Not knocking the dealers, just telling it as it is. It is their business to sell cards, not buy them back. But that is how I have seen those column prices applied in the real world.

Recently I've started noticed that there is a price range on bottle water of all things. To be specific, on a single Dasani 20 ounce water bottle. At various places, I've seen an individual bottle on sale for: 99¢, $1.69, $1.89, $1.99, and $3.99.

That just reminded me about trading cards. The price that you're willing to pay just depends on when you see the card. If you want it right now then you might be willing to pay slightly higher even if you know that you probably could find it lower if you have a little patience and are willing to do a little searching. So when the price guide lists an individual card for $2-$5 or even $40-$100 that means that you probably find that card within that range. Sometimes it'll be on sale at the low end (or even lower) but don't be surprised to see it offered for sale higher also.

Going back to the bottle water, I know that I can find one between $1 to $2 but if I'm at amusement park and thirsty then I'm more willing to pay $4 for that same bottle of water.

LOL good one after all the explanations of how dealers equate there prices buying and selling and even with all the excuses for good cards they still ask the high end and sometimes more for their cards regardless of what they purchased them for we all know it is buy low sell high so really they are not doing themselves a favour an example the Buffy Evolution case card why it is rare I do not know as it is 1 per case has had three cards sold recently for make an offer in the sixty five seventy five dollar range yet there are still sellers having them on sale for two hundred plus or best offer but if i offer them seventy dollars as best offer they are not going to take 150% lower and we all know that there was no way they purchased the card for the seventy dollars we all know that or is it only in New Zealand that you can see a dealer buy a bunch of stamps postcards etc for twenty dollars and ten minutes later sell two or three from it to another person for thirty dollars each no it is all over the world a reasonable seller will get return customers not one off I will always put reasonable sellers on my watch list and will regularaly check them out wereas a hardline seller only gets one bite of the cherry but as you all say if you have to have it you have to have it but here the saying everything comes to those who wait takes precedence as waiting has worked for me plenty of times

I've noticed the starting prices of some sketch cards starting in the hundreds of dollars range, and on many cards I'd be tempted to toss right in the trash can after pulling them.

I just read this on Beckett.com about the HI/LO columns in the price guide and it reminded me of your story.

https://www.beckett.com/news/h...eckett-price-guides/

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:
That 50% difference from the high to the low price seems pretty typical when looking for collectibles related to trading cards and even toys. The timing and availability play factors in how much the buyer is willing to pay.

This is a very loose rule of thumb that was explained to me years ago when there still were dealers at card shows and price guides had HI and LOW columns.

The dealer wants to sell YOU the card at the HI price and wants to BUY from YOU the card at the LOW price, assuming he/she deemed it in good demand. Thus a sale doubled his/her money.

This formula was later revised when dealers decided that they couldn't get the HI price on most cards because even good ones weren't always in great demand. So they started to claim that they sold at half price bargains, which was really the LOW column. The rub was that, since they were now selling at LOW, when they bought any cards from customers it would only be half of that amount. Meaning they wanted to buy at only 25% of HI book price, if they wanted to buy at all, more often usually not.

Not knocking the dealers, just telling it as it is. It is their business to sell cards, not buy them back. But that is how I have seen those column prices applied in the real world.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:
I just read this on Beckett.com about the HI/LO columns in the price guide and it reminded me of your story.

https://www.beckett.com/news/h...eckett-price-guides/

Thanks for posting this. I always have taken the Beckett Price Guides (or any other price guide) as a starting point and not a set in stone price.

There were some good information about the Price Guide in the article, and I like how Beckett is asking for constructive feedback to help make the guide better