The seller was unable to get a refund for the card so they are attempting to sell it again -- knowing it's a counterfeit!

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
The seller was unable to get a refund for the card so they are attempting to sell it again -- knowing it's a counterfeit!

Jon

Hope you reported them to Ebay.Thats a pretty bad breach of their rules as well as being morally wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Triple-Frog:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
The seller was unable to get a refund for the card so they are attempting to sell it again -- knowing it's a counterfeit!

Jon

Hope you reported them to Ebay.Thats a pretty bad breach of their rules as well as being morally wrong.

I did report the auction, but eBay won't step in unless tons of people flag the auction, or the rights holder (Artbox, in this case) complains.

Hopefully, if nothing else, reporting the auction will make it easier for whoever ends up buying this card to get their money back.

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Triple-Frog:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
The seller was unable to get a refund for the card so they are attempting to sell it again -- knowing it's a counterfeit!

Jon

Hope you reported them to Ebay.Thats a pretty bad breach of their rules as well as being morally wrong.

I did report the auction, but eBay won't step in unless tons of people flag the auction, or the rights holder (Artbox, in this case) complains.

Hopefully, if nothing else, reporting the auction will make it easier for whoever ends up buying this card to get their money back.

Jon

I've reported the new listing (for whatever it's worth) and also fired off a quick email to Artbox Entertainment. I'm guessing neither is going to do much good, but I figure it's worth a shot.

I tried reporting it,but am I doing it right?
On the auction page it says "Report Item"
Then a new page appears with a few questions,but there is a question that says-"you have received a counterfeit card" they have no other response. Do I put that response in? Thanks to anyone who can help.
I figured it out,and report was sent. I don't like how he's getting rid of the fake card.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: riddickfan,

http://cgi.ebay.com/SPIDERMAN-...&hash=item1c18dea076

Looks like the Dafoe that is on webjon.com.

http://webjon.com/blog/?p=380

Please remove if I've made a mistake in posting this.

quote:

Originally posted by prospect5k:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SPIDERMAN-...&hash=item1c18dea076

Looks like the Dafoe that is on webjon.com.

http://webjon.com/blog/?p=380

Please remove if I've made a mistake in posting this.

Definitely could be problematic. . . but the scan is so bad it's hard to tell for sure. The signature looks like a match to the fake, and the buildings are a lot lighter on this card and the Lawless than they are on the Stan Lee. . . You'd have to get a good scan or see the cards in person to be sure.

Howdy,

I have reported the Watson card to eBay as well. It had a single bid on it this morning.

I did think about messaging the bidder but I am unsure if that breaks any eBay rules.

TTFN

How can you message the bidder? In the US eBay that is all masked so I don't know of any way to contact a bidder during an auction. . . I'd love to have that information. . .

Jon

I also reported the auction and sent an e-mail to Kay at Artbox. I think some people will see the grading from Beckett and think the signature was authenticated, but not understand that the grading pertains only to the condition of the card.

quote:

Originally posted by kbmum:
I think some people will see the grading from Beckett and think the signature was authenticated, but not understand that the grading pertains only to the condition of the card.

That's correct they do not authenticate the autograph itself but they are supposed to authenticate the card (along with grading the condition obviously). The authentication of the card part is where these companies appear to be lacking. Especially with non-sport cards where they're probably not as much "experts" with as sports cards. Considering grading companies probably only spend 20-30 seconds on each card I'm not sure how they can expect to accurately determine the authenticity of the card.

Howdy Jon,

My mistake you can't message the bidder, I have not tried to before and assumed that by clicking on the bidders name in the bid history that you could contact them but you can't.

Sorry for the bad information.

I contact sellers all the time letting them know artists names to sketch cards they have listed as unknown. Scroll down and just below the section "Questions and answers about this item" is "Ask a question". I click on that and click the "Other" box and click on "Continue". That gives you a box to type your question/comments.

You can contact a seller, but you can't contact a bidder because the IDs are protected. For the Emma Watson auto, it would be nice if someone could contact the bidder who has placed a minimum $200 bid on a counterfeit auto.

quote:

Originally posted by Logan:

quote:

Originally posted by kbmum:
I think some people will see the grading from Beckett and think the signature was authenticated, but not understand that the grading pertains only to the condition of the card.

That's correct they do not authenticate the autograph itself but they are supposed to authenticate the card (along with grading the condition obviously). The authentication of the card part is where these companies appear to be lacking. Especially with non-sport cards where they're probably not as much "experts" with as sports cards. Considering grading companies probably only spend 20-30 seconds on each card I'm not sure how they can expect to accurately determine the authenticity of the card.

Well in the case of a certified autograph card, it kind of all becomes one and the same thing once the card is officially graded. The service is supposed to be able to pick out counterfeit cards, that's part of the grading process and it should be absolutely expected that BGS or any of the others can do that. If this card is a counterfeit it should have been rejected, period.

Now if you as the submitter are guaranteed through grading that the certified card is genuine, the logic you would have to follow is that the signature is also genuine. The only way you can have a fake signature on a genuine certified card is if the card got out blank and was forged afterward. That can happen of course, but it would be a much rarer occurance.

If that's what happened here, than BGS is not responsible to verify the autograph. But if the card is a counterfeit, which is much more likely to be the case, then BGS blew it on all counts.

I submitted a card very recently to Beckett. I specifically paid in advance for authentification and slabbing, period. NO grading... The card was shipped to JSA (James Spence) in New Jersey to be authenticated, then back to Beckett to be slabbed after it was certified as genuine.

I see the problem if you submit an autograph card for grading/slabbing but you don't pay extra to Beckett for authentification service from JSA. Its totally possible that a clever counterfeit will be slabbed, and subsequently it will appear even more legit to a potential buyer.

If you don't pay the extra fee for authentification (by JSA), then Beckett does not guarantee that you will get authentification. That how I understand the services to work.

Or am I missing something?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BILLZEE,

quote:

Originally posted by BILLZEE:
If you don't pay the extra for authentification (by JSA), then theres no guarantee that you will get it, right?

Or am I missing something?

As far as I know, James Spence Authentication verifies autographs. If for example you had an in-person signing on a regular card or photo JSA can provide the necessary expert opinion to ensure that the autograph is deemed genuine.

However, and again this is only as far as I know, any grading service is supposed to be able to detect a counterfeit card, whether it has an autograph or not. In the case of a manufacturer produced certifed autograph card it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that, once the grader determined that the card was genuine, it would also follow that the autograph would be genuine too. Why would you need to pay someone else to tell you that for an autograph that is guaranteed by the card manufacturer?

As I said this is an assumption, because you could make the argument that a blank certified card might have been signed afterward. Still and all, if BGS graded a certified autograph card like the Watson, then it was accepted as genuine. I would not have thought it necessary to send it to an autograph expert first, and then to the grader.

I mean, if it is a counterfeit card you know its going to be a forged autograph. And if its a genuine card its a good bet, perhaps not an absolutely certainty but still a good bet, that the autograph is authentic. As long as BGS grades the cerified card, it shouldn't be necessary to get JSA involved unless you want to pay extra fees. Or maybe I'm missing something?

When you grade an autograph card neither Beckett or PSA authenticates the auto...they only grade the condition of the auto.

For authentication you must use JSA or PSA/DNA.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:
When you grade an autograph card neither Beckett or PSA authenticates the auto...they only grade the condition of the auto.

For authentication you must use JSA or PSA/DNA.

Yes, I understand that. The point I am trying to make is that the autograph on a certified autograph card is already authenticated by the manufacturer or the signer, however the language reads on the back of the card. As long as the card is not found to be a counterfeit, which I have always believed was one of main reasons why people got cards graded in the frst place, the signature should not need any more validation than it already has. Just look at the back for the guarantee. If that's not enough, what is, another expert opinion? That's overkill and its costly.

Now if the card is a counterfeit, the grading service should have picked it up and rejected it. The signature in that case needs no authentication from anyone because its a fake. Any autograph on a counterfeit certified card is going to be a forgery. Hopefully this doesn't happen too much, but the grader should catch it, the same way they should catch counterfeit cards that don't have any autographs. At least I always thought so.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:
When you grade an autograph card neither Beckett or PSA authenticates the auto...they only grade the condition of the auto.

For authentication you must use JSA or PSA/DNA.

But, in the case of the Emma Watson card... If you can tell in the scan that the autograph was not signed in the proper order. Shouldn't a grading company be able to tell that when they grade the signature?

And I think Raven's right, if the card is a counterfeit the autograph is going to be as well. And the grading company is supposed to be able to tell you if your card is authentic.

Ed