Non-Sport Update's Card Talk
Questionable cards on eBay.
December 08, 2010, 07:26 AM
treksearcherQuestionable cards on eBay.
This issue crops up now and again and each time it makes me think about our Hobby!
As it becomes easier for someone sitting at home with the right technology to produce copies of autographs from manufacturers that most collectors would have difficulty detecting, I have to think the Hobby is doomed in its current form.
Unless you have Provenance of an autograph it is worthless, and as we know, trying to prove to someone "I pulled it from a box myself" is almost impossible.
I do not know the answer to this concern, I'm just becoming reluctant to pay high prices for that elusive card when there is concern it may not be an original.
December 08, 2010, 07:49 AM
Sci-FiPlanetThe solution is simple, use effective security features on your cards and you will stop fakes dead. Hot foil stamping from magnesium blocks, security micro writing, security foil that really is secure and isn't sidestepped by nail varnish.... UV printing, or watermarking... of course some of these might ad a penny or two to the price so don't hold your breath.
December 08, 2010, 09:19 AM
webjonSure Miss Lizzy, send me the scan of our Krause card.
The Radcliffe definitely looks questionable. . . I'd need to compare to other cards, but the signature concerns me.
Jon
December 08, 2010, 11:57 AM
MarcGJust a thought...
Do you think that some of these "Questionable" cards could be legitimately signed by autopen or perhaps an assistant with the celebrity knowing and allowing it to happen???
The star that has to sign the cards and has no time or just passes them off to someone else to take care of???
____________________
"When you are out numbered and the situation is hopeless, you have no option... You Must Attack!"
December 08, 2010, 01:46 PM
Miss Lizzyquote:
Originally posted by webjon:
Sure Miss Lizzy, send me the scan of our Krause card.
The Radcliffe definitely looks questionable. . . I'd need to compare to other cards, but the signature concerns me.
Jon
Email sent to you Jon.
December 08, 2010, 02:01 PM
Electrawoman Cards f/k/a janequote:
Originally posted by webjon:
Thanks Miss Lizzy!
The card you've posted definitely has dark spots in the XOXO, but it also has feathering -- at least it looks like it does, the scan is pretty small.
Dots in an of themselves aren't always problematic as they can occur naturally in a signature, but if you notice the Yunjin Kim cards posted on webjon every 'stroke' in the signature starts with a 'dot.' Also every dot appears to be perfectly round.
Finally on the questionable there is no variation in the line thickness/darkness (aka feathering) at all through the entire signature, dot above the 'i' in Kim, or 'XOXO'
It's hard to tell from your scan, but there definitely appears to be feathering in the 'XOXO', plus line variation in the signature, and it doesn't look like 'Yunjin' starts with a dot.
It's *hard* to tell from a scan, for sure, and the cards are supposed to look real. . . That said I welcome all who ask questions since awareness is the best thing we can do to prevent these cards from getting out. I don't even own a single Yunjin Kim autograph to compare to, I'm simply going off these very small cues in the signature, along with the realization that the seller had other questionable cards.
Since people have questioned my questioning this card I freely admit that I have gone back and examined the card more closely and compared to other autographs, and I still feel -- for the reasons stated above -- that these Yunjin Kim cards are questionable. I still would like to see nice high quality scans from people who have copies of the same cards posted.
Jon
I pack pulled a Yunjin Kim Lost Season 2 auto...I'll try to send you a scan when I get home.
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December 08, 2010, 03:08 PM
webjonquote:
Originally posted by MarcG:
Just a thought...
Do you think that some of these "Questionable" cards could be legitimately signed by autopen or perhaps an assistant with the celebrity knowing and allowing it to happen???
The star that has to sign the cards and has no time or just passes them off to someone else to take care of???
Perhaps that could be happening in some instances, but the cards that have been pointed out all are different than their pack pulled counterparts. So that doesn't seem to be the case here.
That said we know it's not unusual for celebs to get a stack of their own autograph cards for their own personal use. . . perhaps that is the origin of some of these cards.
Jon
December 08, 2010, 03:50 PM
MarcGquote:
Originally posted by webjon:
quote:
Originally posted by MarcG:
Just a thought...
Do you think that some of these "Questionable" cards could be legitimately signed by autopen or perhaps an assistant with the celebrity knowing and allowing it to happen???
The star that has to sign the cards and has no time or just passes them off to someone else to take care of???
Perhaps that could be happening in some instances, but the cards that have been pointed out all are different than their pack pulled counterparts. So that doesn't seem to be the case here.
That said we know it's not unusual for celebs to get a stack of their own autograph cards for their own personal use. . . perhaps that is the origin of some of these cards.
Jon
OK... I just thought I would bring that up.
So you are saying there could be cards that celebs didn't sign and their assistants or someone could have gotten a hold of and somehow they became available without autos?
I wonder if there was any info about this happening or do you know of anything like that happening?
____________________
"When you are out numbered and the situation is hopeless, you have no option... You Must Attack!"
December 08, 2010, 04:02 PM
webjonquote:
Originally posted by MarcG:
So you are saying there could be cards that celebs didn't sign and their assistants or someone could have gotten a hold of and somehow they became available without autos?
I wonder if there was any info about this happening or do you know of anything like that happening?
I don't have any information showing that assistants or other folks have signed official cards for people -- at least not in the non-sport world.
There are many instances of the celebs getting blank autographs for their personal use though. I've written about it on webjon a few times:
http://webjon.com/blog/?s=unsignedThis is why you sometimes see a very odd variant signature -- several Lou Ferrigno's Hulk autos sold on eBay with various quotes "Hulk Smash" etc, these were all from his personal stash of autograph cards, and weren't pulled from sealed RA sets.
Jon
December 08, 2010, 05:58 PM
cardaddictI can't scan my pack-pulled autos because I don't have a scanner. I also have that Angelina Jolie auto, but it was bought from a dealer. The best I could do is a digital photo.
December 08, 2010, 09:23 PM
Ravenquote:
Originally posted by Miss Lizzy:
And speaking of questionable autos, I have a Brian Krause from Charmed Season One that I am pretty damn positive is fake. I cannot for the life of me remember where I got it from.
Can I send it you for a second opinion?
That Krause card wound up being dumped in the Razor Ink Vault boxes and goes for about $25 on a good day.
I'm not saying its not a fake, but if it is someone wasted their time and talents.
December 09, 2010, 03:28 AM
Miss Lizzyquote:
Originally posted by Raven:
That Krause card wound up being dumped in the Razor Ink Vault boxes and goes for about $25 on a good day.
I'm not saying its not a fake, but if it is someone wasted their time and talents.
That's why I'm not too heartbroken about it.
I have another one that is definitely real, so I'm gonna let Jon have this one so he can add it to his fakes collection.
December 09, 2010, 09:25 AM
tsCelebs definitely get extra cards from the mfgs. In the past I have written to celebs and here are a few that signed my item and also sent official signed trading cards...
-Boti Bliss (CSI:Miami)
-Michael Trucco (Battlestar Galactica)Even got it a few weeks before it officially came out.
-Just a week or so ago. I received a official Artbox signed Harry Potter card signed by Dawn French. I had sent her a custom HP card and she sent the real one.
Their are a few others I cannot remember offhand.
December 09, 2010, 02:58 PM
Jim StreichSo the best way to prevent unsigned cards from floating around getting signed is to have the person sign stickers so the cards never leave your office..
HMMMMMM imagine that..
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Ignore list Batman, Headless
December 09, 2010, 11:22 PM
tsWell this thread just saved me from a wasting a few dollars. I read this earlier today. And since I don't bid on these higher end autos...Didn't pay too much attention. Well tonight I was about to spend $5 on a Jeffrey Combs 4400 auto card. And right before I was going to submit my bid. I noticed the name of the seller was savecoupon and I remembered it from the thread and did not go through with the bid.
December 10, 2010, 09:49 AM
kbmumI just looked through savecoupon's negative and neutral feedback (thank you, Toolhaus). Most of the complaints were about slow delivery or non-receipt of coupons. However, someone left a negative on November 10 that the Subway coupons were fakes and the seller wouldn't issue a refund.
December 10, 2010, 01:13 PM
MarcGDo you think that this is only happening to the High End Autos or does it really matter?
Any evidence of Harry Potter Autos?
____________________
"When you are out numbered and the situation is hopeless, you have no option... You Must Attack!"
December 10, 2010, 01:46 PM
wolfieThere is a Christopher Lee auto on ebay right now for the Cornerstone set.
As far as i know he never signed for that set.
It could be a blank that someone got him to sign but it does not say it is.
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Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
December 10, 2010, 01:56 PM
richnetsome stars might use autopens?. rather than sign 100 cards just give it to their secretary to autopen them?
one not fool proof test is ask the person selling to enclose a packet. if they opened cases/boxes they will have a ton of those and could spare one. if they don't have empty packets and its a new release how did they get the auto?
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How many cards do you have in your collection?:
...if you can count them you haven't got enough.
December 10, 2010, 03:34 PM
kane1Nice topic. It will be good to continue posting scans of signatures.
I understand the fear to "fakes". Specially when trading card companies go bankruptcy and sell everything to anyone.
