Hello all

Over the years the one thing I've regretted is selling my Angelina Jolie auto card from the Tomb Raider: Cradle of Life set. What can I say, the economy hurt there for a while...

I'd love to get my hands on this one again, but... I know there have been questionable Jolie cards from the original TR set, is this also true of the CoL set?

There's a certain Australien seller online who seems to have a few of these, should I be suspicous? I asked him where they came from but his answer was a little unhelpful to say the least. A bit on the defensive side, unfortunately...

I've been burnt before a few years back (bought a fake Depp card... ouch ) and wouldn't want to get stung again. On top of that, I'm partially sighted so trusting my own judgement is not 100% an option. Would truly appreciate any help/advice anyone here could give, thanks!

Kris

I know what seller you are referring to. All I'm saying is don't get fooled by the BGS grading. BGS has passed forged signatures in the past and their grading is not significant when it comes to signatures. Contact Webjon for further informations regarding AJ's TR/COL autos.

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:
I know what seller you are referring to. All I'm saying is don't get fooled by the BGS grading. BGS has passed forged signatures in the past and their grading is not significant when it comes to signatures. Contact Webjon for further informations regarding AJ's TR/COL autos.

Thanks for the heads-up Don't like the 'coffined' auto cards anyway, but will certainly avoid more than ever. Hopefully webjon will chime in here when/if he gets a chance.

ALL opinions welcomed!

I know nothing about this seller. What bothers me is your comment that he seems to have a few of these cards. That is a red flag on these types of high end cards and it has to be adequately explained.

Anyone can have one or two Inkworks Jolie autographs of either set, but they were always expensive, desirable and rare cards. Regular collectors and even dealers didn't have stock piles. More over, its been like ten years, so any first generation owners who wanted to sell for profit got rid of them long ago, as you did yourself.

I would not expect to see someone have a few of these cards at this stage, unless he has some connection to Inkworks closeout inventory. Truth is, not many people know exactly what was left in the vault. But that is a different story, and you are right to be careful here.

As for BGS, Beckett Grading Service, I agree that you shouldn't take that as a guarantee without research. I don't like grading in general myself, but BGS and PSA are the two most reliable if you are going that route, however you must watch the slab ratings. While certified autographs may be slabbed, they are typically rated only for card condition, and the autograph is not authenticated at all. It cost extra to have a grader verify the autograph. Some won't do it and some are not very good at doing it.

I have also seen cards in what looks like BGS slabs that were not rated for anything, they just used the holders. So if these cards are in slabs, don't assume that it authenticates the autograph and remember that BGS keeps records the same as all graders, so you should be able to trace them if you decide to purchase. I would trace first and buy after.

If memory serves me correctly, this isn't the first time that seller has had questionable cards for sale.

You can do a search for his name on the Australian card site http://www.ozcardtrader.com.au My understanding is that he (and one of the other large Australian dealers) is honest but overpriced and rude and he does have high end cards for long periods after everyone else has sold out because he sets a very high initial price and never revises it.

Here is a few of the articles on webjon where the seller is mentioned.
http://webjon.com/blog/?p=602
http://webjon.com/blog/?s=kirsten+dunst

Wow, you're fast to pull that up Miss Lizzy.

Regardless of this seller's history, which seems to have problems, those scans do illustrate the point I was trying to make about BGS. The ratings on both the Dunst and Garner cards are based on centering, edges, corners and surface. That's what the slab saids. No where does it say anything about verifying the signature.

Now the natural assumption would be that if the card is genuine the signature must be too, but I know from my sportscards days that graders make no representations as to the autographs on any cards unless they are paid. I believe that BGS wouldn't even do it in the beginning, but started with signature "experts" much later.

So if a genuine certified autograph card was submitted, but the signature was signed by someone else as a ghost, or maybe faked because it was a blank card, it could in theory be passed.

And obviously its all a matter of expertise and confidence. There was one grading service (now closed) that dealers used a lot for "in-person" autographs on cards, and I can't tell you how many I myself saw that were fakes. Many of these slabbed cards are still kicking around the market.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far, it's very much appreciated Some great info and links, thank you.

The Australian dealer does indeed have many high-end cards, and was alsoa bit rude (and somwhat lliterate... ). I'd wager some of his Joile cards are genuine, some maybe not. He doesn't state that the card shown is the one you will receive, and judging from his message to me you don't get to choose. Too expensive a gamble me thinks.

Feels like this may be equivalent to stepping through a minefield...

If you aren't comfortable with the seller's responses to your questions walk away. . . it's always tough buying a card like this with the fakes out there -- good luck!

Jon