I've been thinking about this for quite a while now, and don't mind me, I'm slow, but it finally hit me:

As a collector who cannot buy product by the box, I find it ironic that it is harder to acquire single base cards of any card set, than it is to get inserts.

Whatever the reason is, I think that is the ultimate irony of the hobby. Is this solely my experience, or does it affect everyone?

You are not alone. Outside of Cardtalk and a local friend I don't know of many other places (reasonably) to get singles.

Well maybe I'm not understanding how you collect but, while I fully agree that finding anyone selling base card singles is difficult with the absence of local card shows and hobby stores that actually bust boxes, I also see little need to buy individual non-sport base cards. Even if you don't buy boxes which generally include a full base set (except those larger sets that can't be completed by one box), base sets of all stripes can be obtained fairly economically through internet buying.

Now if you are talking about random pack buying either from open boxes at hobby stores or at the retail level mega stores, than yes you are going to have a singles list if you have designs on completing the set. Unfortunately I have found that the old guard way of collecting is not supported by the reality of the hobby now. So if that's what you mean by ironic, I would concur, but I don't let it bother me either. I just wait to buy the full set at a reasonable price and don't waste time with packs unless I can save for a whole box.

We are in the age where some people talk of buying cases as though it were peanuts and some card manufacturers will readily admit that they design products for multi-case buyers. With box buyers getting so little respect, what can pack buyers and single card buyers expect? It used to be a lot better in the old days, but wasn't everything?

Raven was more diplomatic than I, but in short, why people now built base sets, or might ever feel ire over the inability to complete one, baffles me. They are damn near worthless. I go to a local card show here, and a dealer has a complete set of the Michael Keaton Batman cards, and unless the word "FREE" is affixed onto the plastic case, he will have them again next month as well. They are a folly- an endeavor that almost no one appreciates at this point. They are to be used to be given to children to entice into the hobby, or, use them to try and draw the pictures on the card. I think even the manufacturers, thought they might not readily admit it, would say the same, and that the explosion of parallels is done to entice the public to buy packs in order to get those. Everyone glosses over the base cards. Also, base cards cost more to ship than they are worth. I would never own base cards, unless they were the unavoidable byproduct of cracking a box, I wouldn't advertise the fact that I have base cards, b/c it'll cost me more money to send them out then what I would make. the Trading forum seems to be a good place to mingle with like- minded folk as yourself...

The other thing that stopped me trading base cards was shipping. I would include spare base cards whenever I was doing a trade of other stuff, but ultimately the shipping cost of say 20 cards is more than picking up a full set from a show.

I think for Komodo and I, it does not matter if a base set is "damn near worthless". The base set for some is the meat and potatoes of the hobby for us. We enjoy cards. I really don't look at my collection and think about the return on investment. I still see packs and start picking up some and then realize after a few weeks and the box is empty, I still need 3 or 4 cards so that is where the hole is created. My son started with a blaster of Journey to the Force Awaken and we have had a blast picking up a pack or two here and there which is a joy to me.

Call me old school, all the way LOL.

I collect the way I do for a number of reasons. First off, I can only buy the majority of what I collect online, since there are no outlets that (usually don't) sell any new product anywhere near where I live. If I do happen upon something, it's very limited, and very expensive. The one thing that I found this year were "Star Wars - Journey to the Force Awakens" cards. Four cards a pack (base cards only) for $1.25 a pack. After 30 packs, I still do not have a complete set, and I will not buy any more, so now I must attempt to find singles. I'm used to that, putting this set together takes me back to the very first cards I bought, Star Wars, back in 1977, so it was enjoyable in that respect.

Buying completed base sets is a nice way to get it all in one shot, but, it takes all the fun out of opening packs and the hunt for every card to complete the set. This is what I mostly do now, but as has been mentioned, the shipping cost is painful. I do not have much of a budget for cards, so I'm lucky to get a set or two a year, and some inserts or singles from old sets that I've been trying to assemble for years now. Completing old sets- base or inserts- is still a satisfying part of the collecting experience. Unfortunately, sometimes I have bought a set online, only to find that it was missing half a dozen cards. I am still trying to find singles from sets that are in this category that are about 10 years old. The few dealers at the 'local' shows that I have attended often had older product that they've had for quite some time, and often still trying to sell at original prices, straight out of the pricing guide.

It is a shame that the main body of any card set, base cards, don't get the respect that they deserve. Of course, if you're opening boxes or cases at a time, and your goal is high end cards, then it's clear why this is so, it's like panning for gold. Any way, that's a different kind of discussion, though related to this. To sum it up, the current majority of insert cards do not appeal to me.

That being said, the irony is that procuring the easiest and most common elements of a set has now become rather difficult due to present circumstances. I guess I can see that as a benefit in my case, since it adds to my own satisfaction when I finally do find the things that I look for.

Until 1995,(age 25), I was the same way. I collected, and did not think in terms of ROI. That year, Walmart and had a contest to win the Gretzky/McNall Honus Wagner card. An entry form was placed in every Walmart-exclusive Upper Deck baseball, football, and basketball pack. I bought ALOT of those packs. At the end, when they announced the winner, I believe they had said they had received over 20 million entries. I remember working the math backwards, and trying to figure out what that meant. In the end, after guestimating % sent in, # of sets, # of cards in each set, cards per pack, insert ratio, etc, I remember getting a number of about 750,000 of each common was sold just in Walmart, let alone any OTHER avenue in the hobby. I had my "a-ha" moment; I knew this was not good. This stuff was a big joke, and it broke me from collecting for a while. (right when Pogs came out...ugh) Now, I only go limited and almost only autograph, and only stuff I think has a chance to appreciate. Admittedly, I won't speak of my collection in the same nostalgic, wholesome, warm, or romantic tones, but I don't think its so bad to eyeball the bottom line as well. To be clear, I will buy packs for my kids to open on occasion, or a box for Christmas, and I fully endorse that, but I find I don't usually enjoy opening wax. My pleasure comes from getting a certain autograph card, and moreso than busting a box. What once was at least 7 or 8 monster boxes in 1995 morphed into a collection that is now less than 500 graded cards in size, mixed between sport and non-sport, but is easily managed, protected, potent, and hopefully easy to distribute to my boys someday. My how times have changed..I don't know any of you, and don't care what you do, but I appreciate the exchange of opinions. If my post makes you think, all is well in the world...Happy Thanksgiving...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: boadster,

I can fully appreciate that there are different kinds of collectors here- over the years I have seen quite a few people indicate their collecting style. It's certainly given me a perspective into what people are interested in, and their collecting preferences. Some venture into the imaginative which I know that I would not have even considered.

When I perceive a distinct problem in my own method of acquisitions, and cannot find an obvious solution, I like to throw it out here and see what ideas and opinions are given in return. I haven't seen this topic discussed very often, so I'm hoping that I may find a way to overcome it. Judging by many of the want lists in the Trading sections, there are still quite a few people who are looking for base singles from various titles.

As a matter of fact, there is a post in the Trading section which has seen some success getting 'orphan' cards sent between collectors who have trouble either getting certain lower value cards, or disposing of extra cards they don't want. I had expected it to be more active than it has been; the opportunity to participate is still open to anyone

I do remember seeing the odd post where certain individuals had a very large volume of extra base cards they were burdened with. It sounds to me that after a certain point, there is little to no opportunity to get any more return on the investment of their stock. I wonder what happens then? I suppose it either can go to be recycled, or warehoused. Surely there must be some chance of getting some of this stock out of limbo? I understand that it does become very time consuming. I have seen lately that some stores on auction sites actually have base singles available. The price is rather steep, but it is an option that some of us are willing to take, myself included, just to put some closure on some things. The hunter in me is satisfied when that happens

I am so totally in your camp Komodo. It totally stuns me that anyone would collect only the top end hits of any given set and have no interest in the base set.

To me, owning the base set is where I start, it's the sole purpose of collecting,it's the raison d'etre, it's 42 (the meaning of life),it's where our hobby came from.

Anyone who just collects only top end hits has either lost the plot or is a speculator hoping to make a retirement income from the sale of the cards in the future (well good luck on that one guys.

Anyway, that should be enough inflammatory comments to whip up a tornado of contrary opinion.

PS A good place to find loose singles is my place! I have 882 completed base sets (Ha!!suck on that!!) and about as many spare cards for them.

I don't think it matters what you collect or how you do it as long as you have an affection for it and don't go into Twilight Zone territory. I have found that most card collectors, including myself, have a collector mentality that just keeps searching for new subjects and goals. When they do decide to stop buying something, they immediately start looking for something else. There is little sense to try to bring logic or economy into it because the main thing is that it fills a need. I know that streaming video is the best way to go, but darn if I don't want to own that DVD.

Anyway, enough with the amateur psychology, no one has to defend what kind of cards they collect or seek approval for it. If it gives you pleasure that's all there is to it. If it doesn't, find something else to do that does.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by btlfannz:
I am so totally in your camp Komodo. It totally stuns me that anyone would collect only the top end hits of any given set and have no interest in the base set.


Anyone who just collects only top end hits has either lost the plot or is a speculator hoping to make a retirement income from the sale of the cards in the future (well good luck on that one guys.

Or, spent the 1980's building more baseball card sets that I want to remember, and finally grew up and realized that rather than build sets that you can't sell, decided to focus on acquiring the better pieces that were available. There are a lot of set builders who are really pack opening junkies, and use the idea of building sets as a rationale to allow them to buy more packs. I do not have that Jones; I simply wait and buy the autograph card so that the box buster can go get his next fix. The autograph cards- if chosen judiciously, are more expensive, but offer more upside than a base set. Enjoy...

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I have found that most card collectors, including myself, have a collector mentality that just keeps searching for new subjects and goals. When they do decide to stop buying something, they immediately start looking for something else.

Raven, can you please explain all of that to my wife? Clearly you have great insight into why I spend uncommon amounts of money on little bits of cardboard.

quote:

Originally posted by btlfannz:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I have found that most card collectors, including myself, have a collector mentality that just keeps searching for new subjects and goals. When they do decide to stop buying something, they immediately start looking for something else.

Raven, can you please explain all of that to my wife? Clearly you have great insight into why I spend uncommon amounts of money on little bits of cardboard.

You're on your own Buddy. I've got my voices of reason too.

When base sets are "virtually worthless", it makes it cheaper for those of us who love them. If I get an autograph or costume or even a sketch, how many minutes do I spend "enjoying" each acquired item? (That's why I also like base sets with storylines over those with extra images or puzzles. Maybe my brain is more text-based. Some people might already have drawn that conclusion.)

One annoyance comes up when I buy a base set and unexpectedly it's missing a card. (Even the best box-breakers make mistakes a small fraction of the time.) Long, long ago we had bunches of people trading singles and even a few "angels" who collected a dozen people's wants and extras lists and handled cross-trades. I sort of miss the community, which still exists for extremely vintage cards.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I don't think it matters what you collect or how you do it as long as you have an affection for it and don't go into Twilight Zone territory. I have found that most card collectors, including myself, have a collector mentality that just keeps searching for new subjects and goals. When they do decide to stop buying something, they immediately start looking for something else. There is little sense to try to bring logic or economy into it because the main thing is that it fills a need. I know that streaming video is the best way to go, but darn if I don't want to own that DVD.

Anyway, enough with the amateur psychology, no one has to defend what kind of cards they collect or seek approval for it. If it gives you pleasure that's all there is to it. If it doesn't, find something else to do that does.

In both paragraphs, you summed things up perfectly. Certainly from my perspective

I am a collector of all manner of things. My friends and relatives see me as a boarderline (or not even that far off) hoarder. I have always been collecting something or other for as long as I can remember. Before collecting trading cards I collected Cinema Lobby Cards. Those who know me on this forum will probably have guessed that they were specifically for Ray Harryhausen films, but I digress. Making up Lobby Card 'Base Sets' is still something I indulge in. I have several sets of 8 that are missing one or two cards. Trading those is not as straight forward as with trading cards as they come in 10" x 8" and 14" x 11" sizes which makes postage all sorts of fun

I enjoy collecting things. Every now and then I stumble across some things I haven't looked through in ages. The fun of going through them reminds me why I collected them in the first place. The key thing is to enjoy whatever it is you collect, otherwise what's the point ?