quote:

Originally posted by Obi Wan Chrisobi:
It's quite possible that the stars are willing to sign but the offer to do so never makes it past their business manager or agent. That is apparently why Jorge Garcia never signed for any of the Lost sets.

OR, some of them feel like their signature is worth more than the card companies are willing to pay.

i don't think it matters why an actor doesn't sign for a set. if they don't want to, then i respect that decision. i don't think fans are entitled to anything, other than the creators, crew and cast doing their best to make a great show. beyond that, they don't owe me anything, certainly not their autograph.

quote:

Originally posted by B-Dunc:
i don't think it matters why an actor doesn't sign for a set. if they don't want to, then i respect that decision. i don't think fans are entitled to anything, other than the creators, crew and cast doing their best to make a great show. beyond that, they don't owe me anything, certainly not their autograph.

Amen!

quote:

Originally posted by B-Dunc:
i don't think it matters why an actor doesn't sign for a set. if they don't want to, then i respect that decision. i don't think fans are entitled to anything, other than the creators, crew and cast doing their best to make a great show. beyond that, they don't owe me anything, certainly not their autograph.

Fans may not be entitled, but I believe actors, especially in a case like Buffy where without it Gellar probably would be nothing, should want to give back to those who made them, and that includes the fans. Her signing for a set would have been a huge thank you for those that supported the show.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chuck Bartowski,

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Bartowski:

quote:

Originally posted by B-Dunc:
i don't think it matters why an actor doesn't sign for a set. if they don't want to, then i respect that decision. i don't think fans are entitled to anything, other than the creators, crew and cast doing their best to make a great show. beyond that, they don't owe me anything, certainly not their autograph.

Fans may not be entitled, but I believe actors, especially in a case like Buffy where without it Gellar probably wouldn't be nothing, should want to give back to those who made them, and that includes the fans. Her signing for a set would have been a huge thank you for those that supported the show.

Very well put.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, but if someone refuses to sign it changes how I view them for not doing so. My buying, and viewing habits will reflect that as well.

Prime example of an actor recognizing how they got where they are is Nathan Fillion and the number of autos he signed for the upcoming Castle set. Without fans, Firefly disappears into obscurity as a short-lived failure. Without Firefly, he never lands the Castle role.

A lot of actors don't get it or misunderstand how this market works. I collect autos for myself not for their perceived value, as do most of the people I know who collect.

Thanks to those actors who appreciate their fans.

I've been an in person autograph collector for 20 years now and while I understand the frustration of some card collectors when certain celebs don't sign cards for a set, here are my two cents on this topic.

Although it directly affects me and my collection, I personally think that no celebrity owes anything to his fans or so-called fans. This topic has constantly been coming up in the autograph collecting scene for decades, but in my opinion no collector or fan is entitled to anything when it comes to celebrity autographs.

Being an actor is a job and thus you get paid for acting. While you may not even be a good actor (not on one's personal but on general view, e.g. SMG vs. Al Pacino), you can have a large fan base. However dealing with fans has never been part of the intial job which is acting, it's an extra if an actor chooses to interact with his fans such as replying to fanmail and autograph requests.

Now a lot of people will say someone is arrogant if he/she doesn't sign autographs and that a celeb's fame is only possible because of his/her fans. Well, this is an illusion and simply not true! Did you really think the 123.2 million movie viewers of the 1997 film "Titanic" were all fans of Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet and the 150.4 million movie viewers of the 1982 film "E.T." were all fans of the then unknown Henry Thomas and Drew Barrymore?!? No matter how many real fans a celebrity has, their fame will not rise or fall because of his fans. The majority of people watch a film or tv show because they a) like the story, b) like a certain cast member and c) because they simply want to be entertained.

SMG has always been a tough one to get in person and she's been sending out SFM preprints in reply to TTM requests since the 90's. So in general you can say she's never been to keen to sign autographs anyway. So it doesn't surprise me that she never took a deal with Inkworks to sign their cards. On the other hand Inkworks inquiry for her to sign cards doesn't go straight to SMG, but to her publicist or manager and if they turn down Inkworks because they know SMG isn't into giving autographs anyway, SMG won't even be bothered with Inkworks inquiry.

Then again we have celebrity who never signed for a set, but who are great signers in person. And in contrast to that we have celebrities who signed for a set, but are the world's biggest a-holes in person.

Take Quentin Tarantino for example: he was supposed to sign cards for Inkworks Alias Season 4 set, but he never did. The unsigned cards are out on the secondary market. Now some card collectors might think he's too arrogant to sign for Inkworks, but he's the most charming and nicest guy when you meet him in person. He'll do anything, will sign ten 8x10" photos for you in a row, will pose for photos with you and chat with you.

In contrast to Quentin Tarantino, Orlando Bloom has signed cards for several sets, but he is one tough guy to get in person to put it diplomatically. He goes out of his way to avoid collectors like the plague. Shia LaBeouf is the very same. Though he had signed deal for Topps' Indiana Jones KOTCS set, he is a major jerk in person and will do anything to avoid collectors. And in case he can't hide and has no opportunity but to face collectors, he threatens to beat & smack them (happened to us again last month at the airport).

I've already given up on certain celebrities (such as Morgan Freeman and Joseph Gordon-Levitt for example) because they just won't sign, but I have no hard feelings because it's their own decision and you won't change that anyway if you stop watching their films or tv shows. In the end I like an actor for what he's doing, his acting. Meeting them, getting my 8x10" photos signed and having a photo taken with them is a bonus, it's their generosity. But I'm certainly not entitled to that and the celeb doesn't owe me this kind of "service". If he does, it's really cool and if he doesn't I have to respect that. I've had the opportunity to spent 15 minutes talking to Morgan Freeman last year and he was such a kind and classy man to talk to. But as usual he didn't sign. I rather remember our great 15 minutes conversation than being pissed off that he once again didn't sign a single thing. Just accept the fact that some celebs won't sign.

I'm stuck on the unsigned Tarantino Alias S4 card. Where can I get 1 of these as I've never heard of them?

quote:

Originally posted by Jake:
I'm stuck on the unsigned Tarantino Alias S4 card. Where can I get 1 of these as I've never heard of them?

You can get the unsigned Tarantino card on eBay. It's card A32, which in the end became the card for Joel Grey as Mr. Sloan II.



There is also an unsigned Alias Season 4 card for Academy Award nominee Angela Bassett as Hayden Chase. Its number is A41, but unfortunately we all know that A40 (Angus Scrimm as Calvin McCullough) was the last number of autograph cards that Inkworks provided us with. One can only guess why Angela Bassett's auto cards remained unsigned back in 2006.

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:
I've been an in person autograph collector for 20 years now and while I understand the frustration of some card collectors when certain celebs don't sign cards for a set, here are my two cents on this topic.

Although it directly affects me and my collection, I personally think that no celebrity owes anything to his fans or so-called fans. This topic has constantly been coming up in the autograph collecting scene for decades, but in my opinion no collector or fan is entitled to anything when it comes to celebrity autographs.

Just accept the fact that some celebs won't sign.

I consider myself an autograph card collector and I don't disagree with your reasoning at all as far as it goes but you are, by your own admission, an in-person autograph collector. You are meeting celebrities and hoping for a free autograph, which as you say is only out of the kindness of someone's heart, they don't have to do it.

The frustration that some card collectors feel when their favorites won't sign for a set is not based on the same thing and I think that's where your point loses a bit. It is compounded by the fact that card collectors are not asking for free autographs, quite the opposite. They are buying boxes and cases of product because they hope to find autographs of the stars. They are buying individual cards from dealers and on eBay because they want specific autographs.

In turn those signers are being paid by the card manufacturer as per their contracts and they know that those autographs will wind up in the hands of fans who have paid for them. All autograph card collectors want is a authentic signature from someone they admire, they are not asking for anything free.

Does that mean that a star of some movie or TV show must sign when a set is made? Of course not. But do fans have a right to feel a little disappointed in their stars when they flat out refuse every time? Yeah, I think a little, and fans also learn to have greater appreciation in those stars that do provide the certified autographs.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
It is compounded by the fact that card collectors are not asking for free autographs, quite the opposite. They are buying boxes and cases of product because they hope to find autographs of the stars. They are buying individual cards from dealers and on eBay because they want specific autographs.

In turn those signers are being paid by the card manufacturer as per their contracts and they know that those autographs will wind up in the hands of fans who have paid for them. All autograph card collectors want is a authentic signature from someone they admire, they are not asking for anything free.

Does that mean that a star of some movie or TV show must sign when a set is made? Of course not. But do fans have a right to feel a little disappointed in their stars when they flat out refuse every time? Yeah, I think a little, and fans also learn to have greater appreciation in those stars that do provide the certified autographs.

You are missing a great point: A LOT of celebs don't want their autograph for sale! Believe me, eBay has made my two decades of IP collecting very tough sometimes. Celebs will refuse to sign when you come up with 8x10" photos, with blue Sharpies, with certain photo motifs because they supsect you are going to sell them.

I've had many experiences in the past where the celebs would sign for me and my friend, but turned down the deales next to us because they don't want their signatures to be sold.

While you have of course a right to feel disappointed, you also need to respect that a lot of celebs won't sign deals with card companies because they just can't stand seeing their signature going for loads of money on eBay and other websites. Afterall you should appreciate a celeb for his work and not for signing a deal with a card company.

Elton John is another perfect example: while he will sign from the stage at the end of his concerts for his audience, he won't sign at the airport or hotel and screams at everyone "You sell them" You sell them anyway!"

Then there are also celebs who ceased signing IP and TTM and they won't sign a deal with a card company because they will it's not fair towards their fans. How could they decide that one fan with a lot of money aside for an auto card deserved their signature and another fan who can't afford the auto card did not?! Yes, even in the entertainment biz, it's not all about money, but ethics and moral sometimes.

And let's be honest, the majority of real fans doesn't even know their favourite celeb might have an auto or costume card out to purchase. In the end it's the CARD COLLECTORS who are disappointed, not the real fans of a celeb.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: estephano,

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:
One can only guess why Angela Bassett's auto cards remained unsigned back in 2006.

If memory serves, Angela Bassett's character didn't appear until the first episode of Season 5 and there wasn't a Season 5 set of cards produced by Inkworks. I'm guessing that the card was prepped and ready to be signed, but with no set to be done they didn't pay for her to sign them.

quote:

Originally posted by simon1978:

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:
One can only guess why Angela Bassett's auto cards remained unsigned back in 2006.

If memory serves, Angela Bassett's character didn't appear until the first episode of Season 5 and there wasn't a Season 5 set of cards produced by Inkworks. I'm guessing that the card was prepped and ready to be signed, but with no set to be done they didn't pay for her to sign them.

I'm sorry I have to correct you, but your info is wrong!
Angela Bassett's character of CIA Director Hayden Chase only appeared in Season 4 which was filmed in 2004 and aired on tv in early 2005. To be precise her character appeared in the following episodes:
4.01 - Authorized Personnel Only I
4.10 - The Index
4.20 - The Descent
4.21 - Search and Rescue
4.22 - Before the Flood

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:

You are missing a great point: A LOT of celebs don't want their autograph for sale! Believe me, eBay has made my two decades of IP collecting very tough sometimes. Celebs will refuse to sign when you come up with 8x10" photos, with blue Sharpies, with certain photo motifs because they supsect you are going to sell them.

While you have of course a right to feel disappointed, you also need to respect that a lot of celebs won't sign deals with card companies because they just can't stand seeing their signature going for loads of money on eBay and other websites. Afterall you should appreciate a celeb for his work and not for signing a deal with a card company.

Yes, even in the entertainment biz, it's not all about money, but ethics and moral sometimes.

And let's be honest, the majority of real fans doesn't even know their favourite celeb might have an auto or costume card out to purchase. In the end it's the CARD COLLECTORS who are disappointed, not the real fans of a celeb.

Oh, where to begin?

As an autograph lover I understand your viewpoint from a purely IP autograph collector perspective, but you are stating absolute opinions about card collectors on a site dedicated to card collectors that are not true. I get the impression you are very new to card collecting because you are trying to paint card collectors under one neat description and its a wrong one.

Just because you enjoy to wait around for celebrities and ask for free autographs that you say you don't sell and don't care if you are turned down, that doesn't make you a better fan or more ethical than a card collector you is willing to pay for a certified autograph card that the signer actually gets money to provide. And these cards always wind up in the hands of a true fan in the end. We are talking about collectors, not sellers or investors or speculators.

And while we are at it, it isn't card collectors buying licensed, certified autograph cards on eBay that is making it harder for you to get your autographs. It is your friends who are pestering celebrities everywhere they go for free autographs, which they turn around and sell. This is also the oft-reported phantom source of all those fake signatures that are everywhere for any popular star. All those 8x10s are always supposed to have been signed IP at a hotel or play, right!

That is the reason why I love certified autograph cards. They are as authentic and as guaranteed as you can get. Not 100% of course, but counterfeit cards take a lot more effort than some dodgy IP, and they are from a known, licensed source. And for the record, I collect autograph cards because I am a fan of the signers or the title. I don't sell anything and my hobby has cost me a small fortune over many years.

This topic started with some collectors expressing disappointment that SMG never signed in any Buffy sets. It is not a matter of greed that people wished she had. They are fans of the actress, fans of the show and feel that the Buffy cards are diminished by not having the star signature. Any modern card set is diminished when a major star is not part of the autograph list. It is not disresectful to anyone to say that, it is simply a statement of fact.

I just want to add to the people saying they rather wait and find the celeb to get there autograph. Can I just say that thats great if your living in L.A or New York. I am from Alberta Canada where celebs come once a blue moon. The last bach at our comic expo was Lavar Burton and Julie Benz. So 99% if i like the celeb ill hunt for there signed autograph card if they have one. I rather this then a 8x10 random photo.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:

You are missing a great point: A LOT of celebs don't want their autograph for sale! Believe me, eBay has made my two decades of IP collecting very tough sometimes. Celebs will refuse to sign when you come up with 8x10" photos, with blue Sharpies, with certain photo motifs because they supsect you are going to sell them.

While you have of course a right to feel disappointed, you also need to respect that a lot of celebs won't sign deals with card companies because they just can't stand seeing their signature going for loads of money on eBay and other websites. Afterall you should appreciate a celeb for his work and not for signing a deal with a card company.

Yes, even in the entertainment biz, it's not all about money, but ethics and moral sometimes.

And let's be honest, the majority of real fans doesn't even know their favourite celeb might have an auto or costume card out to purchase. In the end it's the CARD COLLECTORS who are disappointed, not the real fans of a celeb.

Oh, where to begin?

As an autograph lover I understand your viewpoint from a purely IP autograph collector perspective, but you are stating absolute opinions about card collectors on a site dedicated to card collectors that are not true. I get the impression you are very new to card collecting because you are trying to paint card collectors under one neat description and its a wrong one.

Just because you enjoy to wait around for celebrities and ask for free autographs that you say you don't sell and don't care if you are turned down, that doesn't make you a better fan or more ethical than a card collector you is willing to pay for a certified autograph card that the signer actually gets money to provide. And these cards always wind up in the hands of a true fan in the end. We are talking about collectors, not sellers or investors or speculators.

And while we are at it, it isn't card collectors buying licensed, certified autograph cards on eBay that is making it harder for you to get your autographs. It is your friends who are pestering celebrities everywhere they go for free autographs, which they turn around and sell. This is also the oft-reported phantom source of all those fake signatures that are everywhere for any popular star. All those 8x10s are always supposed to have been signed IP at a hotel or play, right!

That is the reason why I love certified autograph cards. They are as authentic and as guaranteed as you can get. Not 100% of course, but counterfeit cards take a lot more effort than some dodgy IP, and they are from a known, licensed source. And for the record, I collect autograph cards because I am a fan of the signers or the title. I don't sell anything and my hobby has cost me a small fortune over many years.

This topic started with some collectors expressing disappointment that SMG never signed in any Buffy sets. It is not a matter of greed that people wished she had. They are fans of the actress, fans of the show and feel that the Buffy cards are diminished by not having the star signature. Any modern card set is diminished when a major star is not part of the autograph list. It is not disresectful to anyone to say that, it is simply a statement of fact.

I never said paying lots of money for certain cards is unethical. What I've said is that there are lots of celebs who simply don't want their signatures to be sold which might be one of the reasons why certain celebs haven't signed a deal with a card manufacturer yet and most likely never will.

What I find really offensive is that you say

quote:

It is your friends who are pestering celebrities everywhere they go for free autographs, which they turn around and sell.

HELLO?!? Are you nuts? How about you stop twisting my words and start to quote me in full!
I've made it very clear when I wrote

quote:

I've had many experiences in the past where the celebs would sign for me and my friend, but turned down the dealers next to us because they don't want their signatures to be sold.

that me a my friend are collectors. How dare you to badmouth my collector fellow and falsely accuse him to sell the autographs he collects. This is outrageous! What's next? Accusing my friend or me not having collected for the past two decades, but sitting down with a stack of photos and forging signatures?

We all know that so-called "guaranteed authentic" autographs sold through very reliable, licensed companies were also proven to be secretarials and autopens. Remember the 2007 Razor Richard Nixon Presidential Cut which showed one of his common autopens? Or the 2008 Upper Deck Dwight D. Eisenhower Signs of History Presidential Cut which was an autopen as well? Also the 2008 Upper Deck Charlton Heston Iconic Cuts auto card had Heston's well known secretarial signature on it. And the 2008 Razor Carrie Fischer Cut Signature Edition auto card had the well known secretarial signature of Fisher's mother Debbie Reynolds on it.
My longterm friends Steven Koschal and Andreas Wiemer have reported about those and other fake, but officially distributed cards in the past, but card collectors didn't seem to mind at all. They seem to blindly go by "If a company say it's guaranteed authentic, then it must be authentic."! Do you even have the slightest clue how many thousands of forgeries PSA/DNA has passed through as "authentic" in the past 10 years and issued their COA? You'd be surprised! That's the main problem in the autograph collecting scene these days: people don't educate themself anymore, but blindly trust a piece of paper that some company has issued. Never forget, in most cases a COA is only worth the paper it's printed on. And if people don't educate themself, I have no sympathy for them when they discover that they were ripped off and paid lots of money for a PP, AP or sec.

And by the way, IMO it's quite disillusioned to think that a collector isn't an investor or speculator. Of course he is, a collector is always investing and speculating that the value of his collection is increasing or at least steady. It would be every collector's worst nightmare to find out the collection he built over years with thousands of $$$ isn't worth a dime anymore the next day he wakes up.

quote:

Originally posted by Dex1186:
I just want to add to the people saying they rather wait and find the celeb to get there autograph. Can I just say that thats great if your living in L.A or New York. I am from Alberta Canada where celebs come once a blue moon. The last bach at our comic expo was Lavar Burton and Julie Benz. So 99% if i like the celeb ill hunt for there signed autograph card if they have one. I rather this then a 8x10 random photo.

I understand where you're coming from, but even in Alberta you're lucky enough that quite a few of features are being filmed.
"Freezer" starring Dylan McDermott and Peter Facinelli recently wrapped in Edmonton. And in the past you had "The Bourne Legacy", "Inception", "Brokeback Mountain", "Resurrecting the Champ", "Open Range", "R.V." and "The Grey", "The Young and Prodigious Spivet", "Drawing Home" being filmed in Alberta. Plus AMC's hit show "Hell on Wheels" will also soon return to Alberta to shoot their third season. So it's not exatcly right that celebs come to Alberta once a blue moon, you just need to know about their filming schedules.

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:

You are missing a great point: A LOT of celebs don't want their autograph for sale! Believe me, eBay has made my two decades of IP collecting very tough sometimes. Celebs will refuse to sign when you come up with 8x10" photos, with blue Sharpies, with certain photo motifs because they supsect you are going to sell them.

While you have of course a right to feel disappointed, you also need to respect that a lot of celebs won't sign deals with card companies because they just can't stand seeing their signature going for loads of money on eBay and other websites. Afterall you should appreciate a celeb for his work and not for signing a deal with a card company.

Yes, even in the entertainment biz, it's not all about money, but ethics and moral sometimes.

And let's be honest, the majority of real fans doesn't even know their favourite celeb might have an auto or costume card out to purchase. In the end it's the CARD COLLECTORS who are disappointed, not the real fans of a celeb.

Oh, where to begin?

As an autograph lover I understand your viewpoint from a purely IP autograph collector perspective, but you are stating absolute opinions about card collectors on a site dedicated to card collectors that are not true. I get the impression you are very new to card collecting because you are trying to paint card collectors under one neat description and its a wrong one.

Just because you enjoy to wait around for celebrities and ask for free autographs that you say you don't sell and don't care if you are turned down, that doesn't make you a better fan or more ethical than a card collector you is willing to pay for a certified autograph card that the signer actually gets money to provide. And these cards always wind up in the hands of a true fan in the end. We are talking about collectors, not sellers or investors or speculators.

And while we are at it, it isn't card collectors buying licensed, certified autograph cards on eBay that is making it harder for you to get your autographs. It is your friends who are pestering celebrities everywhere they go for free autographs, which they turn around and sell. This is also the oft-reported phantom source of all those fake signatures that are everywhere for any popular star. All those 8x10s are always supposed to have been signed IP at a hotel or play, right!

That is the reason why I love certified autograph cards. They are as authentic and as guaranteed as you can get. Not 100% of course, but counterfeit cards take a lot more effort than some dodgy IP, and they are from a known, licensed source. And for the record, I collect autograph cards because I am a fan of the signers or the title. I don't sell anything and my hobby has cost me a small fortune over many years.

This topic started with some collectors expressing disappointment that SMG never signed in any Buffy sets. It is not a matter of greed that people wished she had. They are fans of the actress, fans of the show and feel that the Buffy cards are diminished by not having the star signature. Any modern card set is diminished when a major star is not part of the autograph list. It is not disresectful to anyone to say that, it is simply a statement of fact.

I never said paying lots of money for certain cards is unethical. What I've said is that there are lots of celebs who simply don't want their signatures to be sold which might be one of the reasons why certain celebs haven't signed a deal with a card manufacturer yet and most likely never will.

What I find really offensive is that you say

quote:

It is your friends who are pestering celebrities everywhere they go for free autographs, which they turn around and sell.

HELLO?!? Are you nuts? How about you stop twisting my words and start to quote me in full!
I've made it very clear when I wrote

quote:

I've had many experiences in the past where the celebs would sign for me and my friend, but turned down the dealers next to us because they don't want their signatures to be sold.

that me a my friend are collectors. How dare you to badmouth my collector fellow and falsely accuse him to sell the autographs he collects. This is outrageous! What's next? Accusing my friend or me not having collected for the past two decades, but sitting down with a stack of photos and forging signatures?

We all know that so-called "guaranteed authentic" autographs sold through very reliable, licensed companies were also proven to be secretarials and autopens. Remember the 2007 Razor Richard Nixon Presidential Cut which showed one of his common autopens? Or the 2008 Upper Deck Dwight D. Eisenhower Signs of History Presidential Cut which was an autopen as well? Also the 2008 Upper Deck Charlton Heston Iconic Cuts auto card had Heston's well known secretarial signature on it. And the 2008 Razor Carrie Fischer Cut Signature Edition auto card had the well known secretarial signature of Fisher's mother Debbie Reynolds on it.
My longterm friends Steven Koschal and Andreas Wiemer have reported about those and other fake, but officially distributed cards in the past, but card collectors didn't seem to mind at all. They seem to blindly go by "If a company say it's guaranteed authentic, then it must be authentic."! Do you even have the slightest clue how many thousands of forgeries PSA/DNA has passed through as "authentic" in the past 10 years and issued their COA? You'd be surprised! That's the main problem in the autograph collecting scene these days: people don't educate themself anymore, but blindly trust a piece of paper that some company has issued. Never forget, in most cases a COA is only worth the paper it's printed on. And if people don't educate themself, I have no sympathy for them when they discover that they were ripped off and paid lots of money for a PP, AP or sec.

And by the way, IMO it's quite disillusioned to think that a collector isn't an investor or speculator. Of course he is, a collector is always investing and speculating that the value of his collection is increasing or at least steady. It would be every collector's worst nightmare to find out the collection he built over years with thousands of $$$ isn't worth a dime anymore the next day he wakes up.

You seem to be attacking card collectors for just about everything and I have no idea why. It doesn't have anything to do with this thread anymore.

You accuse card collectors of not being real fans and of being disrespectful to celebrities, yet when I say this is not the case for these reasons you turn around and say I am accusing your "friend" of selling autographs and forging signatures, along with a bunch of other things including the time honored "are you nuts?".

Well actually I'm not, and I know when things are going to go from bad to worse. So before the Mods have to step in, I'm shutting down this conversation, it has no point. You know everything you want to know about autographs and card collectors.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by estephano:

You are missing a great point: A LOT of celebs don't want their autograph for sale! Believe me, eBay has made my two decades of IP collecting very tough sometimes. Celebs will refuse to sign when you come up with 8x10" photos, with blue Sharpies, with certain photo motifs because they supsect you are going to sell them.

While you have of course a right to feel disappointed, you also need to respect that a lot of celebs won't sign deals with card companies because they just can't stand seeing their signature going for loads of money on eBay and other websites. Afterall you should appreciate a celeb for his work and not for signing a deal with a card company.

Yes, even in the entertainment biz, it's not all about money, but ethics and moral sometimes.

And let's be honest, the majority of real fans doesn't even know their favourite celeb might have an auto or costume card out to purchase. In the end it's the CARD COLLECTORS who are disappointed, not the real fans of a celeb.

Oh, where to begin?

As an autograph lover I understand your viewpoint from a purely IP autograph collector perspective, but you are stating absolute opinions about card collectors on a site dedicated to card collectors that are not true. I get the impression you are very new to card collecting because you are trying to paint card collectors under one neat description and its a wrong one.

Just because you enjoy to wait around for celebrities and ask for free autographs that you say you don't sell and don't care if you are turned down, that doesn't make you a better fan or more ethical than a card collector you is willing to pay for a certified autograph card that the signer actually gets money to provide. And these cards always wind up in the hands of a true fan in the end. We are talking about collectors, not sellers or investors or speculators.

And while we are at it, it isn't card collectors buying licensed, certified autograph cards on eBay that is making it harder for you to get your autographs. It is your friends who are pestering celebrities everywhere they go for free autographs, which they turn around and sell. This is also the oft-reported phantom source of all those fake signatures that are everywhere for any popular star. All those 8x10s are always supposed to have been signed IP at a hotel or play, right!

That is the reason why I love certified autograph cards. They are as authentic and as guaranteed as you can get. Not 100% of course, but counterfeit cards take a lot more effort than some dodgy IP, and they are from a known, licensed source. And for the record, I collect autograph cards because I am a fan of the signers or the title. I don't sell anything and my hobby has cost me a small fortune over many years.

This topic started with some collectors expressing disappointment that SMG never signed in any Buffy sets. It is not a matter of greed that people wished she had. They are fans of the actress, fans of the show and feel that the Buffy cards are diminished by not having the star signature. Any modern card set is diminished when a major star is not part of the autograph list. It is not disresectful to anyone to say that, it is simply a statement of fact.

I never said paying lots of money for certain cards is unethical. What I've said is that there are lots of celebs who simply don't want their signatures to be sold which might be one of the reasons why certain celebs haven't signed a deal with a card manufacturer yet and most likely never will.

What I find really offensive is that you say

quote:

It is your friends who are pestering celebrities everywhere they go for free autographs, which they turn around and sell.

HELLO?!? Are you nuts? How about you stop twisting my words and start to quote me in full!
I've made it very clear when I wrote

quote:

I've had many experiences in the past where the celebs would sign for me and my friend, but turned down the dealers next to us because they don't want their signatures to be sold.

that me a my friend are collectors. How dare you to badmouth my collector fellow and falsely accuse him to sell the autographs he collects. This is outrageous! What's next? Accusing my friend or me not having collected for the past two decades, but sitting down with a stack of photos and forging signatures?

We all know that so-called "guaranteed authentic" autographs sold through very reliable, licensed companies were also proven to be secretarials and autopens. Remember the 2007 Razor Richard Nixon Presidential Cut which showed one of his common autopens? Or the 2008 Upper Deck Dwight D. Eisenhower Signs of History Presidential Cut which was an autopen as well? Also the 2008 Upper Deck Charlton Heston Iconic Cuts auto card had Heston's well known secretarial signature on it. And the 2008 Razor Carrie Fischer Cut Signature Edition auto card had the well known secretarial signature of Fisher's mother Debbie Reynolds on it.
My longterm friends Steven Koschal and Andreas Wiemer have reported about those and other fake, but officially distributed cards in the past, but card collectors didn't seem to mind at all. They seem to blindly go by "If a company say it's guaranteed authentic, then it must be authentic."! Do you even have the slightest clue how many thousands of forgeries PSA/DNA has passed through as "authentic" in the past 10 years and issued their COA? You'd be surprised! That's the main problem in the autograph collecting scene these days: people don't educate themself anymore, but blindly trust a piece of paper that some company has issued. Never forget, in most cases a COA is only worth the paper it's printed on. And if people don't educate themself, I have no sympathy for them when they discover that they were ripped off and paid lots of money for a PP, AP or sec.

And by the way, IMO it's quite disillusioned to think that a collector isn't an investor or speculator. Of course he is, a collector is always investing and speculating that the value of his collection is increasing or at least steady. It would be every collector's worst nightmare to find out the collection he built over years with thousands of $$$ isn't worth a dime anymore the next day he wakes up.

You seem to be attacking card collectors for just about everything and I have no idea why. It doesn't have anything to do with this thread anymore.

You accuse card collectors of not being real fans and of being disrespectful to celebrities, yet when I say this is not the case for these reasons you turn around and say I am accusing your "friend" of selling autographs and forging signatures, along with a bunch of other things including the time honored "are you nuts?".

Well actually I'm not, and I know when things are going to go from bad to worse. So before the Mods have to step in, I'm shutting down this conversation, it has no point. You know everything you want to know about autographs and card collectors.

Disrespectful people like you who make up stuff to have a point where there is none can kiss my derriere. And I don't care if you have made 3, 300, 3,000 or 30,000 posts. You were directly accusing my collector fellow of going out for IP's to sell them. Oh wait, you couldn't even remember that you've said that. Let me help you out, here's your quote

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
It is your friends who are pestering celebrities everywhere they go for free autographs, which they turn around and sell.

Enjoy the officially distributed UD and Razor fakes, I'm sure they will enhance your collection.

I like chocolate milk.