quote:

Originally posted by kbmum:

In this case, wouldn't it be better to not have any base cards at all? No manufacturer is going to spend the money to produce filler cards that have no purpose other than to be thrown away. What a waste.

But the disposable base cards WOULD have a purpose. The primary thing a lot of people are seeking in this hobby is an experience similar to scratching off a lottery ticket. The experience of opening a pack, searching for and anticipating a chase card, and then if they see one getting that little "hit" of pleasure.

The base cards exist to provide that experience. A lottery ticket is not as exciting a lottery ticket if you know each one is a winner. (i.e. premium packs).

Where would your idea leave people who only collect base sets?

You would in effect be kicking them out of the hobby.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
Where would your idea leave people who only collect base sets?

You would in effect be kicking them out of the hobby.

I said "a" set, not "every" set. There would still be plenty of other sets with normal base cards.

I applaud your thinking but it is just so wrong on so many levels - the idea of printing pack wrappers and cards just for disposal is madness. If you are opening a box knowing there are say 24 packs of 5 cards containing 108 blank cards and 12 chase - you might as well just open a premium pack and have the 12 chase cards. Who would buy a pack knowing there could be nothing in it?

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:
the idea of printing pack wrappers and cards just for disposal is madness.

But this is what's happening anyway, due to the disproportionate number of boxes you have to open to pull a master set vs base set. The only difference with my idea is that now the base cards are designed to be thrown away.

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:
Who would buy a pack knowing there could be nothing in it?

A lot of people, just like people buy lottery tickets knowing they're probably worthless.

And it would lower the cost per pack, we could argue about how much, but the cost definitely would be lowered.

quote:

Originally posted by James7:

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:
the idea of printing pack wrappers and cards just for disposal is madness.

But this is what's happening anyway, due to the disproportionate number of boxes you have to open to pull a master set vs base set. The only difference with my idea is that now the base cards are designed to be thrown away.

But your design is intentionally wasteful and environmentally unwise. Just making a million pieces of cardboard designed for nothing but being thrown away is not good product management.

You keep mentioning lottery tickets, but they are just little pieces of cardstock, not a pound or more of cardboard.

And I for one don't throw many base cards away. I sort everything into sets and store the rest for future need unless there is an unusually large number of certain numbers do to manufacturing variances.

New ideas are good, but sometime you have to back away from them and realize that they just weren't practical.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
But your design is intentionally wasteful and environmentally unwise. Just making a million pieces of cardboard designed for nothing but being thrown away is not good product management

Environmentally unwise? Really? Out of all the other things that do genuine damage to the environment: oil spills, nuclear plant meltdowns, aluminum cans, plastic bags, etc. You're worried about about a few hundred pounds of cardboard which will biodegrade? Do you drink any beverages from aluminum cans? If so, you are doing far more damage to the environment by doing that (because of how this aluminum is mined) then disposable base cards ever would.

The disposable base cards also wouldn't be "designed for nothing". They would be there to give the experience of opening a pack and having that uncertainty, and then the thrill of getting a hit when you do find a chase card.

And while you, as a dealer, may keep all your base cards. Most people don't. Who here on this forum has thrown or given base cards away? I bet it's most of us. So the wastefulness is already there, the moment companies started inserting chase sets that can't be completed unless someone buys a case or more - that's when the wastefulness started. With my idea, it doesn't make it more wasteful, it just makes the wastefulness that's already there more apparent. Bottom line is at some point most of these extra base cards end up in the trash. At least with blank disposable base cards they wouldn't have to use all that ink.

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
You keep mentioning lottery tickets, but they are just little pieces of cardstock, not a pound or more of cardboard.

Yeah but don't you think the losing lottery tickets add up after a while? Have you ever seen one of those big rolls the tickets come in with most of them being losers? How is that any different from a box of cards?

I give up. You win. Now all you have to do is find a manufacturer who agrees with you.

The real waste is of our time while you try in vein to get someone...ANYONE to see your point. It makes one stop and think...do you live under a bridge?

We would never do this for a few reasons, but let me give you my top 3.

1. a lot of people like basic cards, hence the vast number sold, as a manufacturer why would I alienate a large segment of our customer base by making them essentially non-existent? This is illogical in the extreme.

2. This will also mean that your "chase" cards are now for all good definitions the new basic cards. Our chase cards cost a great deal more to make than the basic cards and I am guessing we would have to make a lot more of them to keep people buying now that a large section of our product has been turned into disposable trash.. This means the prices are going to go up for production which means RRP will be higher. We are in a down market, and we are trying to lower cost not increase it.

3. What in the world is the point of adding extra weight to a product that has to be shipped? This is going to cost money, just so you can get the thrill of opening a pack and tossing more than half the contents into the trash? Thats just the stupidest and clearly most wasteful damn thing I have read in a long time.

If you want to make the basic sets more valuable then limit the number produced or make them harder to collate, both of these things work if you have a good product, our basic sets sell for more than many of the larger manufacturers because of this. Enough card collectors still like basic sets, they are a valuable component of the hobby product. They are also gateway product for new collectors, in that they are often low priced making them affordable to younger or less knowledgeable buyers who may then move on to buy the higher end boxes or cards and collectables.

The idea that we should make something designed to throw away just for fun is ludicrous, your comparison of trading cards to scratch off lottery tickets is disingenuous, they are very different things, for example Lottery tickets are a mas market product, which can be purchased in almost any local store, this is not at all the same as a hobby product, which typically has a much shorter print run and smaller distribution numbers but a wider shipping radius, thus increasing the production cost on two counts, and making it incomparable. You also have to consider incentives and market demographics, with scratch cards you will find out right away if you are going to win a prize, and you will obtain the prize very quickly, card companies offer no grantee on eventual value. I would also say that we have more gamblers than card collectors, it's unlikely that you will open a pack of cards and find a life changing anything, but with the lottery well thats the dream they sell you isnt it. In short you are comparing apples and giant killer seals... they just have nothing in common.

I am however refraining from naming a few of the companies who I think already DO make disposable sets... mostly because I'm feeling nice and it is almost Christmas.

quote:

Originally posted by Sci-FiPlanet:
I am however refraining from naming a few of the companies who I think already DO make disposable sets... mostly because I'm feeling nice and it is almost Christmas.

Please, do tell. Since it is Christmas especially, so we can all know what card sets to avoid when we spend our Christmas money.

got an idea,why not make base cards out of tissue paper,then they can have another use,blow your nose before you throw them away

I've just produced a set where all the cards are disposable, if anyone wants to send me some cash I'll throw them away and save on shipping charges.

well, that sounds reasonable to me.

quote:

Originally posted by cheifbrody:
got an idea,why not make base cards out of tissue paper,then they can have another use,blow your nose before you throw them away

That's actually a good idea, it could work especially well with the GPK sets. Another idea would be to make them out of toilet paper. Or what about they make a Cheech and Chong card set and have the base cards made of rolling paper?

quote:

Originally posted by treksearcher:
I've just produced a set where all the cards are disposable, if anyone wants to send me some cash I'll throw them away and save on shipping charges.

So what are the chase cards for this set?

I wouldn't want you to throw the base cards away because they serve a purpose, they are similar to the scratch off coating on a lottery ticket.