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Diamond Card Talk Member |
 You can't use the State comparison. It doesn't work and its technically a world wide market anyway. This is an incredibly small hobby for people who regularly collect multiple non-sport card titles and want to add autographs also. Don't go by the people you see at the hobby store or talk to on forums or card related market sites. That is preaching to the choir. Talk to family, neighbors, co-workers, people at the supermarket, random strangers. I have and I have told them my hobby and they smile and look at me like I have two heads. Outside of the tight circle we all stick to, virtually no one knows what the hell we are talking about or why we are spending money on it.  | |||
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
Sorry you don't like/understand my comparison. I was simply agreeing with mykdude's comment. | |||
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| Diamond Card Talk Member |
I did like it, did understand it and have often considered it myself. Wasn't disagreeing, but it still doesn't work out, although it should in such small numbers. That's what the big grin was for. My only conclusion is that it's an even smaller hobby. | |||
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Platinum Card Talk Member |
Haha! Yeah it IS fun trying to explain it to folks. On the broad scale I agree but I also look at the spill over market. Our little hobby certainly links to the larger Autograph collectors groups which also leads to the more extreme fan groups (i.e. convention types). If a single Walking Dead con can have 30,000 to 60,000 attendees and there are probably at most 2500 to 3000 Andrew Lincoln autograph cards in existence, I tend to make my comparisons on that level. Not that all of those people are into autograph card collecting but they at least understand it. ____________________ Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable. | |||
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
____________________ Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable. | |||
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
Not so much personally but what I was hitting at is more the idea that while there is such a thing as "hype" value there are also plenty of collectors out there who get miffed if they can't get something for as close to free as possible. Then they start complaining about how outrageous everything is. Of course they never feel that way if they are selling. ____________________ Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable. | |||
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
Ya know, the more I think about it maybe I shouldn't be so upset they are destroying original autograph cards to make crappy cut cards. It lowers the original production numbers. ____________________ Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable. | |||
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Titanium Card Talk Member |
Ah thanks, i think the reason it does not show up here is the seller has not put postage info to the UK on his auction. ____________________ Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man. | |||
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
Strange that is the same search I am using. | |||
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
Geekdom in general is becoming mainstream, and we are now getting a-list celebrities signing in sets. All of that adds to the potential, also there his a lot of demand for certain sets overseas now. I read that they shipped a significant amount of Goodwin Champions to China/Taiwan. | |||
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| Silver Card Talk Member |
I use the same thought process. It puts into perspective how truly rare or common some cards really are. | |||
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| Diamond Card Talk Member |
Yeah, it is a mystery why there is so little carryover to the mainstream media fans, certainly on the popular titles like Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. I won't necessarily include all those thousands of Con attendees because the attraction there is the live guests, but you would think enough of them would know about the card sets to buy through the limited production, and it doesn't happen. So logic would say that they do know, but are just not interested in cards, or even most of the autograph cards. With autograph collectors it's easier to explain. They want 8x10s. There is more room to sign, it displays in a frame better and it's more likely to be tied to a personal appearance. If you notice, not a lot of people going to personal signings that cost quite a bit of money are carrying trading cards. It's always 8x10s or more specific items. I really prefer certified autograph cards because it relieves the question of authenticity, but it doesn't seem to be a majority opinion for pure autograph collectors and that is another market. If either of these two groups of media fans and/or autograph collectors were attracted to the card sets even in a small percentage the demand would rise tenfold, but they're just not in large numbers so far. The biggest influx I can ever remember of non-card fans buying cards was back when the first Twilight series by Inkworks came out. The movie fans did indeed drive the card prices sky high and left regular card collectors shaking their heads at what was seen as incredibly high and foolish prices for the time. If card collectors only knew what was coming. | |||
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
I think the 8x10 theory is a bit narrow. There is only so much wall space, eventually the picture is going to have to be put in a file or book somewhere. Then there is the whole 3 dimensional item that gets signed. I REALLY don't have room for that. If I were to get one it would have to be pretty special. Big posters look really cool signed. The 30 or so I currently have are rolled up in tubes. Most of mine I didn't even collect, just incidental stuff you get at events and from VIP packages. I do have a decent signed CD collection but like cards, they fall into a nice size standard and are much easier to maintain. I think it all falls down to the reasons for collecting that drives to the type of collection. Not to mention the exposure it gets. In the end at this point it is all just a discussion between what is and future potential. I prefer autograph cards for the very same reason you do. I sort of look at it as taking care of everything on the front end. If I (or a family member) should ever have to sell it there is not a lot of time and money wasted making sure everything is authentic at that time. Given that I can acquire most of my collection for the same price (often much less) than what a celebrity charges at a public appearance is an additional bonus. Also it keeps my collecting habit in check. I can only collect what is available. I talk with TTM collectors who acquire well over 1000 autographs a year and when I question how they manage it, many of them don't. Should something happen to them their collection will most likely sell for pennies on the dollar. Simply because getting it organized and authenticated could take years. ____________________ Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable. | |||
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
I just saw that she is slated to play Aretha Franklin in the film Respect. Due out next year. That's big time right there. I picked one up, thanks for the info. ____________________ Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable. | |||
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| Diamond Card Talk Member |
It's a long conversation because we are talking about two different types of collectible worlds and then the hybrid certified autograph card that doesn't seamlessly blend the two together. The pure autograph collector doesn't need trading cards because they are only interested in the autograph, the card is adding it's own cost that they don't want, and it's too small anyway. The pure card collector doesn't need the autograph because they are only interested in the card, the autograph adds it's own cost and the pursuit of master sets is now virtually impossible due to the unaffordable premium hits. And then you have the certified autograph card collectors like us, who have are own little world and may or may not, collect straight unsigned card products or other signed items. But even I lean toward the autograph side more, which is why I don't need the "best" signed card. I'm happy to take the same genuine certified autograph on a secondary or off-title card and save considerable money over that short-printed, franchise titled card. But's that's just my opinion and it's because I junp around so much. However as for that 8x10 "theory", it isn't a theory. I regard it as proven fact. The signed 8x10 photo is preferred by autograph collectors over a signed trading card, and when they are getting it signed themselves, they certainly choose 8x10s more than anything else. The picture is larger, the signing space is larger, personalization or inscriptions are possible, they can be stored or formally displayed and they can still be documented and re-sold if that is the motive. Forty years ago pure autograph collectors walked around with index cards or autograph books or sports annuals to collect signatures. That was the cheapest way to build a good collection then, but now those signatures are largely unwanted, not because they don't have value, but because they need authentication and the items don't have visual appeal. Now it is photos and posters for autograph collectors or signed personalized photos for the casual fan attending paid appearance. Very, very few bring unsigned trading cards to be signed and that's not a theory. | |||
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
Unsigned trading cards generally don't make good fodder for getting signatures because they aren't designed for signatures and generally don't have a good space to sign. Perhaps that plays in to why they aren't often used for signatures. | |||
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| Gold Card Talk Member |
Yeah, collectors want 8x10's over cards for sure. Whenever I go to a collectibles show, the celebrity guest always has 8x10's on the table - no trading cards. There have been celebrities with cards of different sizes in the past. I remember Barbara Leigh sold her own standard-size Vampirella autograph cards at shows about 20 years ago and they were going for about $20 then. Her 8x10's still sell for more than that but I don't know what the cards go for now (none have sold recently on Ebay). With an 8x10 the celebrity can sign comfortably. With a trading card he/she has to adjust to the size of the space on the card. When I get a new credit card and sign the back, I have to tighten my signature and the smaller, simpler letters become less-distinct to indistinct so it's understandable that a collector would prefer the signer to work with a larger "canvas" and get that more natural and easier to authenticate signature. I started collecting 8x10's in the late 90's but drifted out of that. As mentioned by Mykdude, the resale value wasn't great for some of it but one collector who paid up made a point of telling me how much he appreciated the actual high quality photo rather than a print-out some people were selling as photos. And getting back to the Emilia Clarke cut autograph from another card discussion, there may be a time someone is going to brag about having the cut but then someone else is going to point out the original card that has become even harder to find. "Wait, what?" I want the original. Jess
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| Platinum Card Talk Member |
THIS is exactly why the uniqueness of what we collect will always have that potential break out factor. Most collections of great value usually began by flying under the radar of the general population in some way. Obviously there is no certainty but it's a thought. I didn't realize we were going to ping so hard on my use of the word "theory"  The simple point I was making was the variety of things signed chosen by collectors. Obviously the 8x10 wins the popularity contest if by no other reason that it is what is available if you don't bring anything to get signed. Plus the pic you receive from photo ops are also 8x10. Of course this also brings up the idea that just because someone gets an autograph, does that make them an autograph collector? I get the feeling at cons that most fans getting signatures are not. The true collectors (or resellers) are generally hauling around various items already in some form of protection.
Interesting, I would think the opposite. Leaning towards the autograph side seems to indicate going for the best signature while not being overly concerned with the condition of the card. Also what started this conversation was taking the cheaper franchise titled card and forcing it into a secondary, more expensive short printed one.
Not sure if I agree with lack of signing space on a card, especially if the whole card is available for signature. The space isn't any less than signing a check. I have some really nice signed cards received in person. Also had the privilege to look at the collection of card talk member Bill Mullins, very cool stuff. Certainly the space issue applies when we talk about the dreaded placement stickers. I would tend to think that most con goers just don't collect cards. Of course the whole preference thing comes into play as well but I don't believe that most are actually making any type of conscious choice between a card or an 8x10. People who go to premiers and such typically need something of a decent size just to get the celebrity's attention. Cards are super great and often used when collecting TTM. In any case no matter what the debate, at least in the world of individually signed items......we win on storage! ;-)This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude, ____________________ Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's valuable. | |||
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| Diamond Card Talk Member |
Interesting, I would think the opposite. Leaning towards the autograph side seems to indicate going for the best signature while not being overly concerned with the condition of the card. Also what started this conversation was taking the cheaper franchise titled card and forcing it into a secondary, more expensive short printed one.
Not sure if I agree with lack of signing space on a card, especially if the whole card is available for signature. The space isn't any less than signing a check. I would tend to think that most con goers just don't collect cards. Of course the whole preference thing comes into play as well but I don't believe that most are actually making any type of conscious choice between a card or an 8x10. People who go to premiers and such typically need something of a decent size just to get the celebrity's attention. Cards are super great and often used when collecting TTM. No matter what the debate, at least in the world of individually signed items......we win on storage! ;-)[/QUOTE] ____________________________________________ Good talk, sorry to condense a little, lot of ground to cover and a few POVs that are all valid depending on your preference. Yes, our collections are personal and if anyone is buying what other people tell them they should be, either they don't have a true passion for the thing and should find something else, or they are looking for profits down the line, which is highly risky and better put into a 401K. However it is also absolutely true that unless you are collecting something that doesn't have a "cash" market out there, like matchbox covers or purple ceramic frogs, you probably don't want a cheap or second rate collection. Hence the problem when an average card collector who is regularly spending a good deal of money finds that the "best" cards have stupid prices and he/she can't or won't go along with it. Totally agree, buying a few autographs doesn't make you an autograph collector. It makes you a fan of one or more persons. And Cons are not for card collectors at all or autograph collectors looking for cheap signatures, at least not if they are like the NYC Con. The autograph guests are too expensive and the lines too long. Good luck if you want cards. You may find a couple of card makers who sell out of their advertised items fast and then may have regular priced boxes left. You may find a few dealers who brought a few sealed boxes of the latest titles among a bunch of dolls and comics. They don't bring loose cards in bargain boxes or albums because they can't watch them and can't haggle with a customer over a single card price. It's too busy, too crowded, too easy to steal stuff and they have better things to do that makes more money. Yes I agree, I don't like makers cutting up cheaper cards to produce some expensive limited cut card. I see nothing wrong with getting that cheaper card and they are taking them away when corporate buys it up. However you can't blame them for doing it when the collectors are the ones who insist that a "best" card is worth it. The "best" card has nothing to do with condition. I always want a card in as close to mint as possible. It has to do with the title license and often the character photo. You will pay way more for any James Earl Jones' autograph card as Darth Vader in a Star Wars set than you will for his same signature on his Conan card. Yes I'll take the Conan one, in near mint please. Last point about getting regular cards signed TTM or otherwise. First off you have to pick the right card that has a good large, light colored space and little to no gloss covering. Then they have to sign in that space and not over their faces, as so many do. Then you have to keep some sort of documentation for proof, which is impossible with TTM even if you keep the envelopes. And then, if the signer does have certified autograph cards, you are in competition with that and no one values your personally signed cards anyway, assuming that they even believe you. I'm joking, but as an owner of a ton of signed sports cards from many years before the certified ones, I really can tell you that no one wants them but me because I've asked around. Anyway great subject to discuss, so many twists and turns. | |||
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| Silver Card Talk Member |
Some might disagree. | |||
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