Apparently this has sold extremely well with 'tens of thousands of bids' for boxes in their dutch auction sale format.

https://zerocool.com/

I'm curious to see what the sale price per box is. . . It is supposed to be announced today.

Looks like they sold 800 boxes at $2,150 each.

Gary Vee could tell people to collect dog poop and there would be an immediate market for it. It's kind of scary how much influence he has on the market right now, with card prospectors hanging onto his every word.

Like the stock market, hopefully people investing can cash out while it's hot, as I do not see any long term value in this. Or hey, maybe I'm just too old, out of touch, and set in my ways to understand the next big thing?

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
Gary Vee could tell people to collect dog poop and there would be an immediate market for it. It's kind of scary how much influence he has on the market right now, with card prospectors hanging onto his every word.

Like the stock market, hopefully people investing can cash out while it's hot, as I do not see any long term value in this. Or hey, maybe I'm just too old, out of touch, and set in my ways to understand the next big thing?

I hate to sound hyperbolic, but I'm worried we are at the precipice of the end of the hobby as we know it.

This set of unlicensed(?) garbage can entice buyers to spend over $2000 a box.

But a well put together set of Dr. Who with 4 autographs a box is getting push back at $156 a box.

Upper Deck is marketing Marvel cards to sports guys -- who (for the moment) are eating it up.

Outside of this Zero **** release there are no truly new licenses being produced that I know of -- the latest I can come up with was Clerks in 2017.

Already being flipped on eBay -- a box sold for $5800: 175195811019.

Also a box contains 10 cards, so . . . it's really a pack.

I don't even know what I am looking at.....think I will keep it that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
Gary Vee could tell people to collect dog poop and there would be an immediate market for it. It's kind of scary how much influence he has on the market right now, with card prospectors hanging onto his every word.

Like the stock market, hopefully people investing can cash out while it's hot, as I do not see any long term value in this. Or hey, maybe I'm just too old, out of touch, and set in my ways to understand the next big thing?

I take it you have seen these things.

"An ultra-limited trading card set based on Gary Vaynerchuk's NFT project" - "built around the biggest names in pop culture, art and entertainment". And they look like the drawings of a 3-year old.

There really is no words for this. It has nothing to do with being too old. It doesn't have anything to do with non-sport cards either.

This is about deregulation and people being allowed to build billion-dollar financial markets from thin air because others are willing to put their money into nothing. It lasts as long as they all believe and keep up with the price.

It's just the next thing hipsters with money have moved on to. Remember last year, it was those Levi's 501 cards. Packs of those were selling for $350-700 last summer. They were going through the roof! Jump on the bandwagon before it's too late. By Christmas you could get a pack for $200 and the packs are still selling but for $175-200 and even less if you watch for them.

Card collectors will watch this float on by.

What isn't good is that license owners might want more for any property thinking licensees are making a fortune every time.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
Gary Vee could tell people to collect dog poop and there would be an immediate market for it. It's kind of scary how much influence he has on the market right now, with card prospectors hanging onto his every word.

Like the stock market, hopefully people investing can cash out while it's hot, as I do not see any long term value in this. Or hey, maybe I'm just too old, out of touch, and set in my ways to understand the next big thing?

I hate to sound hyperbolic, but I'm worried we are at the precipice of the end of the hobby as we know it.

This set of unlicensed(?) garbage can entice buyers to spend over $2000 a box.

But a well put together set of Dr. Who with 4 autographs a box is getting push back at $156 a box.

Upper Deck is marketing Marvel cards to sports guys -- who (for the moment) are eating it up.

Outside of this Zero **** release there are no truly new licenses being produced that I know of -- the latest I can come up with was Clerks in 2017.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
It's just the next thing hipsters with money have moved on to. Remember last year, it was those Levi's 501 cards. Packs of those were selling for $350-700 last summer. They were going through the roof! Jump on the bandwagon before it's too late. By Christmas you could get a pack for $200 and the packs are still selling but for $175-200 and even less if you watch for them.

Card collectors will watch this float on by.

What isn't good is that license owners might want more for any property thinking licensees are making a fortune every time.

Totally agree, it's a hipster thing. . . but if I were a manufacturer why would I bother with a traditional set when I could make far more money far more easily with a set like this?

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
It's just the next thing hipsters with money have moved on to.

Card collectors will watch this float on by.

Yes and Yes, but these "next big things" have taken on the nature of financial "cults". As long as there are enough people buying into the pitch, it stays afloat and keeps rising. Once they stop believing and more people want to cash out than come in, its an empty investment supported by nothing.

As for non-sport cards, I see nothing in this product that would attract actual card collectors to it. As far as I can tell, its purpose has more in common with Dogecoin or non-fungible tokens than trading cards.

For someone like Vaynerchuk and his fans, $2000 is goof around money for the afternoon. It's not an investment. It's "Look at what I just made (or what I'm backing)." Whatever it is, hipsters will pay up because he's the guy telling them what's cool today.

A manufacturer wouldn't have the cachet of a self-made millionaire who is popular with the in-crowd right now. I guess one of the companies could try it but it would probably need someone like Gary Vee to tweet that he likes that one in order to really take off.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
It's just the next thing hipsters with money have moved on to. Remember last year, it was those Levi's 501 cards. Packs of those were selling for $350-700 last summer. They were going through the roof! Jump on the bandwagon before it's too late. By Christmas you could get a pack for $200 and the packs are still selling but for $175-200 and even less if you watch for them.

Card collectors will watch this float on by.

What isn't good is that license owners might want more for any property thinking licensees are making a fortune every time.

Totally agree, it's a hipster thing. . . but if I were a manufacturer why would I bother with a traditional set when I could make far more money far more easily with a set like this?

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
A manufacturer wouldn't have the cachet of a self-made millionaire who is popular with the in-crowd right now. I guess one of the companies could try it but it would probably need someone like Gary Vee to tweet that he likes that one in order to really take off.

You are right, of course -- it would be difficult for say Rittenhouse to find the next hipster set to release.

My point though is that there are several things happening simultaneously that seem to be potentially extremely detrimental to traditional non-sport card collectors.

From a licensing perspective I don't see anything new on the horizon -- and there really hasn't been anything new for quite a while.

Speculators are driving prices so high so fast that it will drive regular collectors out of the hobby -- also many of them are just really unpleasant. I think this Zerocool release will exacerbate the speculator problem.

Box prices on releases like Dr. Who are seeing push back.

It should feel like a renaissance right now, but instead it feels like a hostile takeover.

I believe these speculators will get bored like they did in the 1990s. I also think that manufacturers will start to ramp up production -- hopefully we start to see cards at retail again (kind of a long shot, but not impossible).

A 4 box break was posted on Instragram:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/Ca8UhGgIZEe/

As you watch this remember this is $8,600 worth of product.

Well -- that was the original retail.

To buy 4 boxes of this now will cost around $20,000.

What a load of absolute garbage.

Who is the person breaking? If you are going to post a break of $20k worth of product you should at least be able to pronounce 'pheasant'

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
A 4 box break was posted on Instragram:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/Ca8UhGgIZEe/

As you watch this remember this is $8,600 worth of product.

Well -- that was the original retail.

To buy 4 boxes of this now will cost around $20,000.

That was embarrassing to watch. I couldn't fake being that excited about this trash. The only nice thing I can say about this product is the box is well-made.

Gary Vee is laughing his butt off as he pockets nearly $2 million off collectors with more money than sense.

I've got some magic beans if anyone is intrested. They are $500 a pack, 3 beans to a pack and some really rare packs come with an extra bean.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
Gary Vee is laughing his butt off as he pockets nearly $2 million off collectors with more money than sense.

How much does it cost to manufacturer cards when you own the image rights? To limit the packs? To make 1/1s, 1/2s, 1/5s, and 1/8s stamped cards? To autograph a few, when you are the signer? To promote it, when you are the promoter?

Takes what has become the accepted big hobby concepts and sells it to people who, I would hope, never bought a trading card in their life.

Right, I see what you're saying. You have a new, vastly-overvalued product on the market with speculators driving up prices on some established products in that same market. Longtime collectors and newbies might feel like they're going 35 mph on a city street as traffic flies by at 70 but I think most of us see the craziness for what it is and that it will pass. We might even benefit from it afterward as some of those speculators start to actually like some of their cards and continue to buy stuff for fun.

I just realized that no one did a "The Batman" set. Why is that? Was the license too expensive or too limiting? That's something you never hear...how much is a license to make Batman cards or anything else? It must be more than mere thousands of dollars. It might be tens of thousands of dollars with limitations. Depending on the limitations, it wouldn't be worth doing even before considering how much it would cost to design/create/pack up/box up the cards and then distribute them.

I've seen that Monsterwax was able to get a "Lost in Space" license but got creative by working with an artist to draw the characters from the show rather than perhaps need to pay more to use publicity stills or freeze frames from episodes. The company also did a dinosaur set (no dinosaurs left to sue them over image rights) and some other art sets.

I've noticed that 5Finity seems to sell out of at least many of their sets. Again, they go the art set route, pin-up art in their case. If a company makes high quality art sets, it will sell depending on the subject matter. Of course, that's the thing. Monsters and scantily-clad women on cards seem to be safe bets but it hasn't been profitable every time.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
A manufacturer wouldn't have the cachet of a self-made millionaire who is popular with the in-crowd right now. I guess one of the companies could try it but it would probably need someone like Gary Vee to tweet that he likes that one in order to really take off.

You are right, of course -- it would be difficult for say Rittenhouse to find the next hipster set to release.

My point though is that there are several things happening simultaneously that seem to be potentially extremely detrimental to traditional non-sport card collectors.

From a licensing perspective I don't see anything new on the horizon -- and there really hasn't been anything new for quite a while.

Speculators are driving prices so high so fast that it will drive regular collectors out of the hobby -- also many of them are just really unpleasant. I think this Zerocool release will exacerbate the speculator problem.

Box prices on releases like Dr. Who are seeing push back.

It should feel like a renaissance right now, but instead it feels like a hostile takeover.

I believe these speculators will get bored like they did in the 1990s. I also think that manufacturers will start to ramp up production -- hopefully we start to see cards at retail again (kind of a long shot, but not impossible).

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
Right, I see what you're saying. You have a new, vastly-overvalued product on the market with speculators driving up prices on some established products in that same market. Longtime collectors and newbies might feel like they're going 35 mph on a city street as traffic flies by at 70 but I think most of us see the craziness for what it is and that it will pass. We might even benefit from it afterward as some of those speculators start to actually like some of their cards and continue to buy stuff for fun.

Certainly I hope to benefit from it -- and I am benefiting from it.

There are pros and cons -- one huge con is that many of the cards I was slowly adding to my collection are now just stupid prices.

Stuff I've bought in boredom on ePack has soared in value -- and I've bought some cards looking to capitalize on the speculators.

I hope it passes. . . there can be benefits. . . more money could mean more sets and licenses.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
I just realized that no one did a "The Batman" set. Why is that? Was the license too expensive or too limiting? That's something you never hear...how much is a license to make Batman cards or anything else? It must be more than mere thousands of dollars. It might be tens of thousands of dollars with limitations. Depending on the limitations, it wouldn't be worth doing even before considering how much it would cost to design/create/pack up/box up the cards and then distribute them.

There was an article I read from years ago about -- I think Pepsi cards, and I believe they said the Pepsi license in the mid 1990s was $20,000.

No clue what that would be today, but with out being able to sell at mass retail I can see it being very difficult to make any money on a product that is going to end up having a very short shelf life. I imagine long shelf life due to a significant back catalogue is the appeal of the titles like Star Trek/Wars, Dr Who, etc.

Curious what DC products Crypto is able to produce.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
I've seen that Monsterwax was able to get a "Lost in Space" license but got creative by working with an artist to draw the characters from the show rather than perhaps need to pay more to use publicity stills or freeze frames from episodes. The company also did a dinosaur set (no dinosaurs left to sue them over image rights) and some other art sets.

I wonder what it is about Lost in Space that so many manufacturers have made sets for it -- Topps, Inkworks, Monsterwax, Rittenhouse Archives.

There must be a popularity factor -- I've never seen anything Lost in Space related -- but I also wonder if is also just an easy license to made a set for. Maybe the IP is less expensive to license, or maybe the owners are easier to work with. It has to be something outside of just the show, right?

I think that is likely also why Elvis, Kiss and even Terminator keep popping up. It seems that some of those entities *want* to be licensed.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:

I've noticed that 5Finity seems to sell out of at least many of their sets. Again, they go the art set route, pin-up art in their case. If a company makes high quality art sets, it will sell depending on the subject matter. Of course, that's the thing. Monsters and scantily-clad women on cards seem to be safe bets but it hasn't been profitable every time.

I love the art based sets. . . but they are so difficult now.

Distribution is all based on email lists or Facebook posts (maybe other places too, I don't know). I used to love 5FINITY, but I wouldn't pay to stay on their email list years ago so now I don't even find out that they are producing something until it is on the market.

I would love to see growth in the marketplace lead to more of these types of sets.

Unfortunately several of the new art based sets seem to rely on other people's IP, and I personally just won't support projects like that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: webjon,