Hi all,

Not trying to set up a sale or anything here, before anyone gets upset

I'm trying to value a Patrick McGoohan PA1 autograph card from the 2010 Factory Entertainment Prisoner Collector Series Volume 2 set.

It's the set that had 75 real signature autograph cards, and the rest were all facsimiles. See the appropriate page on the Oracle of Allender here: http://nslists.com/prisonr2.htm

For most cards it's pretty easy to settle on an approximate market value at any given time, in the obvious manner, but I've been scouring the web for evidence of value of this card, and just can't find anything. The only reference I seem to be able to locate for a McGoohan autograph card is the one from Cards Inc.'s 2002 set.

After speaking to a few dealers at the weekend, I got a broad range of values, and wondered what collectors here thought so I could maybe narrow it down a bit. Any help appreciated.

PS, I wasn't sure which board on here was the most appropriate place for a question like this. If this belongs somewhere else, please move it.

The cards with the text "Patrick McGoohan is Number Six" are facsimile autographs???? I never knew this! I bought the card from a dealer on E-Bay, and both of thought this was a REAL autograph! I am SO glad I've quit collecting!

quote:

Originally posted by cardaddict:
The cards with the text "Patrick McGoohan is Number Six" are facsimile autographs???? I never knew this! I bought the card from a dealer on E-Bay, and both of thought this was a REAL autograph! I am SO glad I've quit collecting!

Not all of them. As above, 75 were real, the rest are not.

The facsimile ones are worth less than £10.

All of the Cards Inc. 2002 ones are real.

If it's any help, I just reluctantly sold mine for £300. There were 75 REAL cards signed by Pat. Strangely these were intended for the first set but there was a problem and the design was changed to a profile shot for that set. Again about 75 of those set one cards.
The facsimile card of the same design was released with the factory set that Factory Ent did for the 2010 reboot. Contained a basic set, a sketch, a promo card and signed Ian McKellen as Number Six card.

Believe it or not I had 4 McGoohan autographs from the Volume 1 set. I got them from a friend of McGoohan who was at least partially responsible for getting him to sign the cards in the first place. So this man was gifted five of the autograph cards, 4 of which he ended up selling to me. I in turn ended up selling them (don't ask me why, I still regret it). I got $250-$300 for each one. This was about 2 1/2 years ago. And I don't think there's much price difference between the Volume 1 and Volume 2 versions. I've seen them sell as low as $150 and as high as $450 over the years. I haven't seen very many at all turn up for sale since I sold mine so I wouldn't take less than $300 for one right now if I were selling.

The 2017 Non-Sport Almanac doesn't even list that set, just the 2002 Cards Inc Prisoner series. McGoohan is listed as a scarce redemption card, $175 - $250. There is a 1/4 cut signature on eBay now asking around $600.

I think McGoohan autograph cards fall into that category of being rare and expensive, but not really having a great deal of demand anymore. He is of course much more popular and better remembered in the UK than in the US.

Prices are always going to be driven by demand and in a round about way demand is often curtailed by the prices. For example, I would like to have a McGoohan Prisoner autograph card, but I can think of many other autos that I would rather spend $250 on if I had it to burn. So its not that the limited cards aren't worth it, they are rare items. Its just trying to find someone who will pull the trigger.

That's what makes this hobby so hard and so illogical. There are many factors involved and making comparison between what even may be seen as like cards or like people or even the same people in different products may not get the expected results.

For the record, if you are unsure of the price and can wait, I would float it high, over $400 at least, and put in best offers. You may get feedback from the offers to tell you if you are in or out of the ballpark.

If anyone can post, or point out, photos of the 'real' as opposed to 'facsimile' signature cards, I would highly appreciate it. I have been a big admirer of the late Mr. McGoohan since The Prisoner replaced The Jackie Gleason Show during the summer hiatus many years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by cardaddict:
If anyone can post, or point out, photos of the 'real' as opposed to 'facsimile' signature cards, I would highly appreciate it.

REAL:








FACSIMILIE:

The facsimiles are easy to spot. The signature on them isn't a signature, it's foil embossed into the card. The real card has the autograph hand written in black ink.

The facsimile also has the 'Factory' logo on the back as opposed to the Carlton and Cards Inc logos which are on the real thing.

Thanks so much for those pictures and the other information! With a big sigh of relief I have determined I have a real autograph!

(But I'm still glad I've stopped collecting, even though the temptation is still great)

Relax, the facsimiles are very obvious mass printed you wouldn't mistake them as being authentic.

quote:

Originally posted by Spencer Quist:
Relax, the facsimiles are very obvious mass printed you wouldn't mistake them as being authentic.

You SHOULDN'T mistake them as being authentic, but that doesn't mean no one ever will if they are not aware of the nature of this product. This was awhile ago, but it is a bad idea to mix facsimile autos and hand signed autos on the same card without explicitly having something to identify the real signature for collectors.

Years ago there were many sports card sets that had imprinted autographs. The entire set was like that and no one could think they were real. I don't even know if they were good facsimiles or just TOPPS having someone write out the names. If the card was signed in-person, you had two signatures on them , but there was no mistaking the auto in the card.

The way this McGoohan was made was bad because its given to be confusing and that leads to fraud. On eBay you always see listings for autographed items with words that leave room for doubt. Lately I see details that include the sentence "will pass any authentication". What does that mean? They're not promising it's authentic, just that it will pass authentication. So it's a good fake then?

Anyway, may point is, certified autograph cards are really the best guarantee that you have an authentic signature. They are not perfect 100%, but still the best. So I hate it when card companies enable bad people to fool honest collectors by producing cards that are confusing in nature or are easily compromised to make them look like they are more valuable than what they are. The old peel off stars on autographs and the churning out of blank cards or releasing unsigned cards are examples of things that just have long term consequences for people who don't know the true stories behind the cards.

The real autographs were released in one set Prisoner Volume Two, while the facsimile was released with the Prisoner Reboot factory master set! They weren't released together!
Anyone that thinks that a foil embossed PRINT of an autograph is an authentic signature should really jack in collecting. It is VERY obvious and couldn't be mistaken for the real thing.

But only original buyers would know what card came out at release in what volume. As it gets resold on the secondary market, buyers can only take the sellers word for it and multiple changing of hands doesn't even have that. As for foil embossed facsimiles, of course you know that's the card, but forgive if I'm wrong, the McGoohans in these photos do not look embossed, just like black signatures. Sure you can tell them when you have two side by side, but what about when you see only one?

Very true, my familiarity with the cards and the sets just mean I find it ridiculous to mix the two up. No offence meant.

Off to The Village with all of you!
I'll meet you there. I wonder what my number will be? (probably a fraction)

quote:

Originally posted by cardaddict:
Off to The Village with all of you!
I'll meet you there. I wonder what my number will be? (probably a fraction)

I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

quote:

Originally posted by Logan:

I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

....the new number 2.

quote:

Originally posted by cardaddict:
Off to The Village with all of you!
I'll meet you there. I wonder what my number will be? (probably a fraction)

Small OT aside. I actually have stayed in Portmeirion for a long weekend..but it was a long time ago. At least I think it was a long time ago...you can never be too sure with that place