Recently I have noticed that there have been a lot of signed base cards being for sale on E Bay.
These cards especially being Buffy Charmed cards The most recent one being Buffy season 7 #53 signed Nathan Fillion the price being asked $90 reduced from $100.
The season 7 Nathan Fillion A53 has a book value of $32 and is a Inkworks guaranteed copy
This card has no COA or anything and hardly any description of what it is etc.
Can any thing be done about this as a lot of these cards are being put up for sale now at high prices and some of them are being sold.
As there is no guarantee that the signature is genuine and if I purghased one and complained to E Bay that it was not verified or guaranteed by a redemption card or something like that would they let me return it or refund me.
These cards have been getting quiet common over the last year or so and I think that there should be something done about them as there is a 99% chance of them being fake signature.

Nothing you can do about them, except not buy them and perhaps try to warn novice collectors not to be tempted. It can't be cleaned up because there is a market for a signed $7 SMG Buffy base card.

And also because they are not all fakes. Not the $7 Buffy of course , but maybe other signatures that may not have a COA. I have cards that were signed in-person. I have signed index cards that I picked up from old collections. People send cards TTM to celebrities for signatures and get them returned. Many come back with genuine autographs, but of course there is no guarantee. Sometimes it is real and the fact that a base card with a story attached COULD have a real autograph is what keeps this market going for wishful thinkers.

But where a few such autographs may be exceptions, a reasonably informed person would know that a seller who always has multiples of tough autographs on uncertified cards or photos may not be a reliable source. If the autograph is cheap, it's a red flag. However it doesn't get anymore genuine when the price is high either.

Autograph buying is tough, with or without a COA and with or without some third party authenticator. Always assume its a fake until you have some sort of verifiable evidence. You may miss out on a real autograph now and then, but you will have far fewer mistakes to regret.

As best as I can tell that Fillion sig looks ok. For a low fee certain authentication companies will give an on line verification of items on ebay. You would most likely need to do your homework for pre or auto prints.

I guess I am not really seeing this issue here. Authenticated cards are on the rise so customs and signed cards are obviously going to follow.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
I guess I am not really seeing this issue here. Authenticated cards are on the rise so customs and signed cards are obviously going to follow.

Exactly, at one time the signed card was the Cinderella of the trading card and autograph worlds. Everyone disowned it.

But now because of the popularity of the certified autograph card as the primary hit of value, sellers with all those signed custom made cards and TTM signatures are trying to cash in on the market, which is understandable, but one thing is absolutely essential. The autograph must be genuine and be close enough to a verified example to be authenticated, should someone want to take that step.

There are also some genuine in-person autographs that are so sloppy and so quick and so thoughtless, that they actually wouldn't pass third party authentication because they don't agree to known samples. That's a real bummer.

And of course there are a lot of deliberate fake signatures out there, especially when you get to higher tier/higher value celebrities. That is why certified autograph cards are your best options because it makes it harder to do. Not impossible, but harder. The card has to be counterfeited along with a fake signature, or blank cardstock has to found some place.

Nobody produces mass counterfeits of commons, but there are some tough to obtain celebrity signatures that have virtually no real autographs on the market, yet there are plenty for sale. Then there are the cut rate prices, which draw in those that can't afford the certified card, but think this is a bargain. Some bargain.

That's the issue. When collectors aren't careful they are being deceived by accident, by ignorance. by wishful thinking, by deliberate effort, and the more bad signature cards are sold, the more they will be offered.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

Yeah, Cate Blanchett has gotten sloppier over the years but when you compare her LOTR sigs to an event crowd signature session there is nothing similar. With some of those things unless you have video I don't know how you can authenticate it.

TTM is a two edged sword, legit signatures are cool but those people are also flooding the market. No matter what, you need to get it authenticated before getting top dollar. I typically look at every authenticated card $20 and under as a free card.

Every once in awhile you catch a major celebrity who is signing legit for a short period of time. I was a little surprised to have both of my Robert Duvall's authenticated from a request I sent off about 20 years ago. My Kevin Costner, Charlton Heston and Sally Fields TTM on the other hand were garbage. Fortunately I was at least able to have Costner and Heston on some Topps authenticated cards.

I have actually seen some custom cards that look much nicer than the one's offered from a card manufacturer. I picked up the Jake Gyllenhaal from UD but thought the card looked like garbage. Found a really nice custom (as if RA had done it) and was confident enough in the sig to buy it. Have since had it authenticated and like it very much.

Back in the 90's I used to go to a lot of Babylon 5 and Doctor Who conventions . At that time there were no sets with autographs , just base and chase so I would often get the actors to sign a card . Usually if I was buying one of their 8 x 10 photo's to sign they would happily sign the trading card for free .

I will see if I can find some and post pics . Never really thought about selling them , they were more reminders of the event and I did not think they would be worth much anyway .

quote:

Originally posted by Triple-Frog:
Back in the 90's I used to go to a lot of Babylon 5 and Doctor Who conventions . At that time there were no sets with autographs , just base and chase so I would often get the actors to sign a card . Usually if I was buying one of their 8 x 10 photo's to sign they would happily sign the trading card for free .

I will see if I can find some and post pics . Never really thought about selling them , they were more reminders of the event and I did not think they would be worth much anyway .

Yeah, I probably have about 50 or so in person autographs on cards for the same reason. I did get a giant sized Topps Star Wars card signed at a convention featuring Irvin Kershner, Billy Dee Williams, Anthony Daniels, Jeremy Bulloch and Peter Mayhew. I am sure if I ever ran it through Beckett or PSA that it would probably sell for quite a bit.

Piko, I'll take a dozen of the Buffy Season 7 Nathan Fillion A53's at $32.

As mentioned, many actors used to sign a card or two for free if you bought a signed photo. I have dozens of Babylon 5 cards signed that are legit but uncertified. So basically worthless.

Who are we to do anything about a seller selling a unauthenticated card? Not my monkey, not my circus. Only way you should get your money back is if it fails authentication.

Ed

Here are a some of mine that have probably not seen the light of day for 20+ years . I always thought they were just a nice souvenir of a day out but seeing the prices signed cards of deceased actors I may well look at selling a few that are duplicates .

Very nice.

By the way if anyone wants a certificate of authenticity for their signed base card i will knock you one up this afternoon which should tell you what use they are.

You had all those signed personally?

Like -- cool!

No --- SUPER cool!!

Unfortunately forging a signature on a base card is a way for unscrupulous sellers to turn a 5¢ card into at least $5.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
By the way if anyone wants a certificate of authenticity for their signed base card i will knock you one up this afternoon which should tell you what use they are.

Unfortunately true.

COAs can be printed by anyone or copied and attached to anything. The companies and people may no longer be in business, if they ever existed in the first place.

A personal guarantee from the seller means nothing. Should the autograph be rejected as a forgery, the seller simply claims that he/she thought it was real and sold it in good faith. The old "I was scammed too" defense.

Maybe you can get your money back, but only if the description doesn't include words like "no returns" or "at your own risk".

When buying uncertified autographs on cards, photos or any type of item, you have to not only do your homework on the signature, but also on the seller. You have to feel that you have a reason to trust the seller's word beyond having an eBay store.

For instance I am certain that Triple-Frog's autograph cards are genuine and were obtained in person because I see a very specific card collector who did it for fun and has themes. But once those uncertified cards leave his hands and go to someone else, it becomes harder to know for sure.

I'm not an advocate of sending off autographs to signature authentication services either. I've seen too many mistakes get approved and also a couple of real autographs get rejected. Third party authentication is still just a matter of someone's opinion, so you might as well do the research and make your own opinion.

If you have any doubts about the signature or seller, walk away. Buy certified autograph cards whenever possible for both your own assurance and the fact that they can be resold without the hassle of proving anything.

quote:

Originally posted by cardaddict:
You had all those signed personally?

Like -- cool!

No --- SUPER cool!!

The 90's were a great time for conventions in the UK because they were mainly not run for profit but for the fans by other fans . Doctor Who actors from the old series had a great reputation and you often found them in the bar after the days events had ended still happy to chat . You got to hear some pretty interesting tales after a few pints .

Hey Raven,

I haven't watched "Pawn Stars" in a few years but there was a handwriting expert they would ask to come in to confirm a signature whether it was someone who signed the Constitution or a Babylon 5 photo. He must've studied a few known samples ahead of time because he would talk about the tendencies in the handwriting and then make a determination. Hopefully, I could get a good enough photo to get an authentication on a card I was thinking about buying. I would want to ask him or someone else as experienced to take a look in person so I can ask my own questions. I don't know what that would cost but it seems better than mailing off a card and wondering how close a look it's going to get.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
By the way if anyone wants a certificate of authenticity for their signed base card i will knock you one up this afternoon which should tell you what use they are.

Unfortunately true.

COAs can be printed by anyone or copied and attached to anything. The companies and people may no longer be in business, if they ever existed in the first place.

When buying uncertified autographs on cards, photos or any type of item, you have to not only do your homework on the signature, but also on the seller. You have to feel that you have a reason to trust the seller's word beyond having an eBay store.

For instance I am certain that Triple-Frog's autograph cards are genuine and were obtained in person because I see a very specific card collector who did it for fun and has themes. But once those uncertified cards leave his hands and go to someone else, it becomes harder to know for sure.

I'm not an advocate of sending off autographs to signature authentication services either. I've seen too many mistakes get approved and also a couple of real autographs get rejected. Third party authentication is still just a matter of someone's opinion, so you might as well do the research and make your own opinion.

If you have any doubts about the signature or seller, walk away. Buy certified autograph cards whenever possible for both your own assurance and the fact that they can be resold without the hassle of proving anything.

Hey Jess,

I enjoyed watching Pawn Stars, but every sale selected and every conversation on that show was carefully staged.

I think any reputable handwriting expert would need to see the actual item before authenticating and that signature would have to be of high value, maybe even of historical significance, for it to be worth the cost to have it done by an individual expert. That's why the idea of specific card grading services that can also perform autograph authentication for an additional fee has caught on.

Its a good idea for the right items. It just tends to lose something in the execution for me.

Triple-Frog - cool cards, thanks for sharing. How I would love a Jon Pertwee signed Doctor Who card. He was my doctor growing up (re-runs), but I was much too young to catch him on the convention scene. By all accounts he was really decent with his fans?

piko - I have seen more recently as well, but not sure anything really "needs to be done" about these kinds of cards by eBay.

Even if a buyer educates themselves on what an authentic signature looks like, they'll still be taking a risk/punt on cards like these. And if something looks too good to be true...

That said, some may well be legit. I have had loads of base, chase and promo cards signed by cast from Dr Who, Alien movies, Star Wars, and Star Trek. I have not bought them to sell, so it doesn't matter to me how others view them, but if they were to be sold one day they are still authentic autographs, just not certified.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
As best as I can tell that Fillion sig looks ok. For a low fee certain authentication companies will give an on line verification of items on ebay. You would most likely need to do your homework for pre or auto prints.

Just looked at it as its still running. Couple of thoughts.

The seller history and items for sale looks fine. More toys and just a few certified Buffy cards. Nothing bad jumps out.

Now this signed card seems to have a numbered hologram on the back, which is not the case on the plain base card. It is also signed in silver paint, which I don't really like, but is sometimes used for paid signings to appear more special.

There is no description as to where this autograph card comes from and the seller could have added that when the price is $90. Maybe he/she doesn't know, but that hologram says something that I can't read in the shiny scan.

Fillion signs a lot in personal auto sessions and there are some that can be found in silver ink, although I don't really see anything like this card. Still my suspicion is that it could be an auto obtained in-person and marked from one of them.

That doesn't mean I'd buy it for $90 when there are a bunch of his Castle and Buffy and Firefly and Serenity autographs out there for maybe a bit more money on definitely certified cards. It's just that this card could be more than your random signed base card, if the seal was identified.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

Jon Pertwee was very proud of his time on Doctor Who and always went out of his way to support fan run events . He loved talking to children especially and often kept in character with the younger ones . All the proceeds from signings were donated to various charities and he always stayed until everyone in the queue had got his autograph .

Like a lot of the Doctor Who cast you only really appreciated how good they were both as actors and people when they are no longer with us .

Thanks for the info, would love to have met Pertwee.

Is it a coincidence that all the main Doctor Who actors all seem to be fairly/very fan friendly?