quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
In the end sports card collecting and entertainment card collecting have always been 2 different things

I had two very simple reasons for moving from sports to non sports in the late 90s. 1. I enjoyed movies and tv more than I enjoyed sports. 2. Non sports was a variable while sports was a constant.

The variety combined with value potential has been a reality ever since the 90's bubble popped. Non sports proceeded with a caution which meant limited production. On another thread we are creating a rather large list of celebrities who have only signed one card and many of those on a limited release. Sports card memorabilia and autographs are redundant, boring and redundant, it would be difficult to make such a list. It must rely on manufactured rarity for the crazy prices we see. How many cards HAS Tom Brady signed????

A third concept not being discussed is maybe the non-sports card world had been largely undervalued for 20 years. The idea of selling high so you can pick it up later when it drops is much more of a risk today than it once was. I have talked to a few people who regret selling as the prices were going up because now they are so high even if they drop they may not go back to their sell price. I know Cameron will never drop to what I paid for it.

Does that mean I am going to pay these crazy prices? Not at all, I have to come to the understanding that some cards on my want list will never be mine. I am just glad I saw the potential before the zombie hoards figured it out.

There is still room to play in the current release market and speculating on the lower end based on how careers are doing is always fun. Then I am always putting a cast together if nothing else.

Great points catskilleagle and mykdude.

I personally am finding fewer and fewer places to play, part of that is the increase in pricing. I'll wait for the boomerang.

The other part of that is the current release market. There just isn't much variety any more.

Normally I would pick up some Pop Century, but so far I haven't bought a single card.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Great points catskilleagle and mykdude.

Normally I would pick up some Pop Century, but so far I haven't bought a single card.

Yeah my Pop Century list seems to get shorter every year. Not completely gone but going that way. So far it looks like I will never buy new sealed product.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
I get it, though. If you really like the card, you're not going to sell. It's not going to bother you too much (maybe) when it comes back to earth.

This is very true. It depends on your attachment to the card. If you just found it in a box and now it's value has jumped, cash it in. But if it's a favorite card/autograph, or even a holy grail, you don't want to part with it unless there is real financial need. That's the whole point of having a collection of any kind.
You're not doing all that work so that someone else can come in, open their wallet and they are set up until some other fad strikes them.

It wasn't very long ago that the list of really expensive non-sport cards was fairly short and mainly confined to gaming cards and a few rare autograph cards. A $100 card was a pretty big deal. Just try to compile that list now and see how many cards we have? How many are over $1,000?

It's staggering to realize how fast the floodgates have opened and that there are no checks and balances to it. It runs as long and as stupid as it lasts. Manufactured collectibles have no organic growth whatsoever and should never be worth some of these prices, but on limited stuff it only takes limited demand to make the market. You might as well try to talk sense to the wall.

Unless you actually sell the card, all of these dollar amounts are just numbers on a screen.

It's like my 401k. It tanked in June, it made me and my wife nervous. July it was up 5%. They are all just numbers until you actually start cashing out.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
Unless you actually sell the card, all of these dollar amounts are just numbers on a screen.

They are all just numbers on a screen until you try to buy, sell or trade. . .

If you have the card in your collection and you are just holding it -- then sure just numbers on a screen.

It depends on what you're looking at. For every collector who feels like he sold too low, there's another one who waited too long or didn't learn something he had was rocketing skyward until it was too late. I missed out on selling a 1993 Nike Aerospace promo sticker set, the one in the special CD case. It has Michael Jordan on a few of them with Looney Tunes characters on all of them so it's got two worlds of collectibles going for it. It was going for over $1000 early last year. I got mine for $15 or $20 a few years before (seemed like a killer deal then). By May of last year, the bubble had burst and it was more of a $300-400 item. I was trying to sell mine by then but it was over. Sales are a bit erratic these days. One went for $225 in June but another one sold for a mere $61 a few days earlier. One has gone unsold for $99 twice in the past two weeks. I would have sold it for several hundred bucks if I could have, but at this point, I might as well keep it. Hey, I like Mike and Looney Tunes.

So yeah, it hasn't dropped to what I paid but it's going for a one-tenth of what it was a year and a half ago. Is the guy who bought the Cameron auto gambling on a big bump once the next Avatar movie is released? Could be. I like Cameron but I'd try to unload it for $3500-4000 to see if anyone bites. I could buy a lot of other stuff with that. Like I said, I get keeping it if that card is special to you. You wouldn't let it go even if someone made you a real offer. We're all collectors here. If you sold it, well then you wouldn't have it. A hobby is supposed to fun - not a business venture (although it is both for some).

As a final note, I did check on old prices for the Cameron card. As recently as 2014, it was valued at $170 in the NSU price guide. Maybe that's about what you paid - or less if you pulled it from a box. It's priced in the $600-1000 in the 2021 Beckett Non-Sport Almanac.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:

The idea of selling high so you can pick it up later when it drops is much more of a risk today than it once was. I have talked to a few people who regret selling as the prices were going up because now they are so high even if they drop they may not go back to their sell price. I know Cameron will never drop to what I paid for it.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
It depends on what you're looking at. For every collector who feels like he sold too low, there's another one who waited too long or didn't learn something he had was rocketing skyward until it was too late.

Of course...it's a game you can play all day long. All I said is the concept of selling high and picking up when it drops is not as much of a sure thing as it once was. Simply put none of us have seen anything like what is going on over the past few years. Which is really the reason for this thread in the first place.

The fun verses value debate will go on forever I suppose but it does not change that it is a hobby we spend money on. It is always much better to find out that the value of what we spent money on has gone up.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
As a final note, I did check on old prices for the Cameron card. As recently as 2014, it was valued at $170 in the NSU price guide. Maybe that's about what you paid - or less if you pulled it from a box. It's priced in the $600-1000 in the 2021 Beckett Non-Sport Almanac.

Purchased in 2012....not really sure what the rest of your point is. Again this is a thread about significant card sales not what the price guide says. Do I think my Cameron card is worth $5k because it sold for that much once? Not at all, as webjon mentioned we would need to see it sell consistently at that price. Do I think it has gone up significantly over the past last year or two? Do I see "organic" reasons why? Could this trend go on for years? Could it all fall apart tomorrow? Absolutely.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
Like I said, I get keeping it if that card is special to you. You wouldn't let it go even if someone made you a real offer.

Ahhh define "real" offer. I agree I am a collector at heart but I am also looking at a card with very real reasons for it to go up in value. I like my collection and don't have much interest in selling but if someone decided to just go stupid offer on me I would probably do it. If one day it drops back down to just a few hundred bucks.....I'm ok with that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

If I had the Cameron, which I don't, I would be happy to unload it for even half that five grand. There would be no attachment there.

However as has been mentioned, it's an academic discussion until you actually go to sell and have to find that buyer. Then things change when people start pulling out magnifying glasses on one hand and you can't find a legitimate offer at the desired price on the other. Like a lot of things, selling your good cards sounds easy until you try to do it.

I don't subscribe to the theory that you can or should sell your hot cards and pick them up again when they drop back down to Earth either. There is too much guesswork in that, and the market no longer follows any logic. I know I couldn't afford to sell and replace any significant number of my better autograph cards now.

Honestly I don't think I would even start an autograph card collection now if I were new to the hobby. I wonder how many of you may feel the same way about your collections? That's a part of the bigger problem with non-sport cards in general too. The new demand coming in isn't for the same reasons as the old demand and the pure collector is losing ground to the speculator, or whatever you want to call those people who are obsessed with the numbers in the book. I see the lunacy that goes on with a product like that VeeFriends and I see the direction new releases are going in and I can't believe people are buying this stuff and its effecting what I can buy.

Personally I haven't sold anything. I have significantly changed what I have been bidding on.

I look at this pretty pragmatically -- rise or crash either way I win. . . Either my collection is worth a lot more, or I go back to how I was collecting before. Both are good options, and realistically increased prices are the best option for me.

I just wish the changes were organic -- new people who really were coming in to enjoy the hobby -- rather than being speculator driven.

Start collecting when you are young. Always seek out good condition, high quality items within whatever budget you have. Do this for 30-40 years, and the value will take care of itself.

I was just providing a little history and recent news on where the price was in general before this year. I didn't know what the height of the jump was in the value.

If the a given card sold for $5K and someone offered me something like $3500 for mine, I would consider that a real offer. I might try to push north a bit but if that was the take-it-or-leave-it, I would have to take it. I like my cards but there haven't been any cheap trips to the dentist lately.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
As a final note, I did check on old prices for the Cameron card. As recently as 2014, it was valued at $170 in the NSU price guide. Maybe that's about what you paid - or less if you pulled it from a box. It's priced in the $600-1000 in the 2021 Beckett Non-Sport Almanac.

Purchased in 2012....not really sure what the rest of your point is. Again this is a thread about significant card sales not what the price guide says. Do I think my Cameron card is worth $5k because it sold for that much once? Not at all, as webjon mentioned we would need to see it sell consistently at that price. Do I think it has gone up significantly over the past last year or two? Do I see "organic" reasons why? Could this trend go on for years? Could it all fall apart tomorrow? Absolutely.

quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
Like I said, I get keeping it if that card is special to you. You wouldn't let it go even if someone made you a real offer.

Ahhh define "real" offer. I agree I am a collector at heart but I am also looking at a card with very real reasons for it to go up in value. I like my collection and don't have much interest in selling but if someone decided to just go stupid offer on me I would probably do it. If one day it drops back down to just a few hundred bucks.....I'm ok with that.

Of course there are other cards going crazy but with the Cameron in particular, if the next Avatar movie does half the business the first one did James will move from number 6 to 2 just under Spielberg as the highest grossing director world wide.

If the series should destroy the box office he could move to number 1 with less than half the number of films Steven made.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
Start collecting when you are young. Always seek out good condition, high quality items within whatever budget you have. Do this for 30-40 years, and the value will take care of itself.

Can't argue with that.

How many Cameron autos exist on the Dark Angel set ?

Says 1 per 589 packs

Or about 1 per 16 boxes

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy C:
How many Cameron autos exist on the Dark Angel set ?

Says 1 per 589 packs

Or about 1 per 16 boxes

I know cases dried up pretty quick. My math shows roughly 200 to 250 which would be on par with the high level Daredevil signatures. This puts the lower level signers at about a thousand or so. Of course it is all speculation.

A KISS 360 Peter Criss autograph sold for $943.

I always really liked this design.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
A KISS 360 Peter Criss autograph sold for $943.

I always really liked this design.

Pretty sure Peter and Ace have fewer autograph cards in the hobby. Gene and Paul are the only ones who signed for that last Dynamite card release.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
A KISS 360 Peter Criss autograph sold for $943.

I always really liked this design.

Gene sold earlier today for $661.

Frank Oz Star Wars Clone Wars sold for a BO of $1500 on Jul 14

Another sold Aug 9th for a BIN of $2999