quote:

Originally posted by catskilleagle:
A few years ago, we were talking about why Mickey Mantle's rookie card (or his cards in general) was valued so high. One sold for $5.2 million about a year ago. A few wondered why some much more rare non-sports cards weren't even close. A card #1 from the 1959 Fleer Three Stooges set sold for not quite $50K.

Trading cards and Mickey Mantle/New York Yankees go hand in hand. The Three Stooges, not so much.

If you said "baseball card" to somebody, there are a few cards that immediately come to mind and the Mickey Mantle RC is one of them, it's without a doubt one of the top 3 most significant baseball cards of all-time.

Say "non-sports card" to somebody and what images are conjured that can identify the entire hobby? I really can't think of one. Maybe Mars Attacks #1?

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
Say "non-sports card" to somebody and what images are conjured that can identify the entire hobby? I really can't think of one. Maybe Mars Attacks #1?

Yeah "Mars Attacks #1" would be the iconic image for non-sport cards among people who know about the cards, except that even that one is probably little known if you asked the general public. Whereas you don't have to be a sports card collector to know of Mantle or to have heard about his rookie card, which is exactly your point and its true.

In terms of picking one card to represent non-sport now though, I kind of think more people would go for the money in a short printed recent certified autograph card than even a high graded vintage card. Its a matter of what's in demand. Put that #1 against a Ford Indy or an RDJ Ironman signature and see which one gets the most interest. Old sports star cards hang around, but old non-sport titles get forgotten by all except the faithful card collecting experts.

This of course is in America. If you asked the public in the street in the UK they would never have heard of Mantle and if they did know Mars Attacks it would be the film they were thinking of.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
This of course is in America. If you asked the public in the street in the UK they would never have heard of Mantle and if they did know Mars Attacks it would be the film they were thinking of.

Location, location, location. See how many people over here can name all the actors, in order, that played Doctor Who.

Doctor Who?

Let's see there was Tom Johnston then...uh. no, wait, he's in the Doobie Brothers. Yeah, you're right.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
This of course is in America. If you asked the public in the street in the UK they would never have heard of Mantle and if they did know Mars Attacks it would be the film they were thinking of.

Location, location, location. See how many people over here can name all the actors, in order, that played Doctor Who.

Come on now ... everyone in the states knows the 1st Doctor was Leonard McCoy, followed by Hawkeye Pierce, and then Quincy. Some things are just common knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
This of course is in America. If you asked the public in the street in the UK they would never have heard of Mantle and if they did know Mars Attacks it would be the film they were thinking of.

This is a really interesting point.

I learned recently that part of the reason that there are such HUGE sales in basketball cards is that American basketball is very popular in many countries in Asia, and that buyers in those markets drive some of the big sales.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
Say "non-sports card" to somebody and what images are conjured that can identify the entire hobby? I really can't think of one. Maybe Mars Attacks #1?

If you say non-sports card to someone usually they just ask what you are talking about -- you'll probably get a response something to the effect of 'like Pokemon?' more often than someone knowing what you are referring to.

This hobby/industry has done an absolute garbage job with branding and self-promotion.

Entertainment cards is an infinitely better term that non-sport cards. No clue why it hasn't caught on. Defining something by what it is not is incredibly stupid. Should we call vegetarians non-meaters?

The sports card hobby has excelled at continued discussion and promotion of it's own classic cards/products. There are basically well defined groups of cards, sets, ect, that most people agree are the best/most collectible, etc. It certainly helps that sports in general make that somewhat easy with records, trophies, etc -- but it also helps that the hobby and media are often promoting the classic / historic cards.

We really don't have that in entertainment cards. Our hobby is so segmented that different groups in the hobby often rarely interact. . . you don't see a lot of vintage discussion on here, for example.

I think it is probably too late to really change that . . . what seems to be happening is that certain segments of the hobby are defining their own greatest cards -- Adam Bomb and Nasty Nick for example, or new people are jumping on the band wagon and just deciding what cards are the best -- PMGs for example.

Sports cards are also segmented, right? Not all sports card collectors collect all sports, but all sports individually do a much better job at deciding what their 'best' cards, best designs, etc are compared to what our industry has done.

The problem with referring to non-sports as entertainment cards is that "entertainment" is too long of a word with too many syllables. People love a fast-and-easy term for every category for every single thing. Preferably, they want a single or double syllable word or short abbreviation.

Yeah, labeling a hobby as what it isn't the best way to do it. Maybe some celebrity will throw out a term like "genre cards" or "show cards" or even something that doesn't really cover everything (comic cards?) but it will stick with the media and that will be it from then on.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
This of course is in America. If you asked the public in the street in the UK they would never have heard of Mantle and if they did know Mars Attacks it would be the film they were thinking of.

You guys need to move closer.

Many non-sport cards are from titles that have nothing to do with entertainment. History cards with world leaders, historical events, politicians, wars, astronauts, trains, cars, animals, dinosaurs, airports, you name it. The list is endless, and these cards are of interest to specific collectors, but they are not entertainment. Entertainment cards might fall under the category of Pop Culture, but even that term would bring about exceptions and debate.

So, there are sports cards and everything else is non-sport. It may be clucky to be defined as a "non", but then you have to go to the subsets. Even sports cards have subsets, but they have established continuous professional and amateur leagues that provide a solid structure.

Some card collectors keep trying to find the comparisons between sports cards and non-sport cards, but if you want to understand the two hobbies you have to focus on the differences. There are many differences, some very practical and some just in general attitude. There really is sports and everything else, so "non-sport" is the best umbrella term left.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
If you said "baseball card" to somebody, there are a few cards that immediately come to mind and the Mickey Mantle RC is one of them, it's without a doubt one of the top 3 most significant baseball cards of all-time.

The first cards that I thought of while reading this were Mickey Mantle’s:

1951 Bowman Rookie Card
1952 Topps 2nd year card

Then the 1989 Upper Deck Ken Griffey Rookie Card

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Whereas you don't have to be a sports card collector to know of Mantle or to have heard about his rookie card, which is exactly your point and its true.

I asked my 30-something year old sports card collecting co-worker if he knew who Mickey Mantle was and he did! But thought the 1952 Topps was Mantle’s Rookie Card instead of the 1951 Bowman

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
This of course is in America. If you asked the public in the street in the UK they would never have heard of Mantle and if they did know Mars Attacks it would be the film they were thinking of.

What? Say it ain’t so, Joe DiMaggio! (just throwing in a Yankees joke there ).
Surely, a portion of the good folks in the UK have heard of the famed New York Yankee baseball team though, right? If they have, they probably heard of legendary player Mickey Mantle in passing then?!?
Wolfie, I’m sure that you have heard of Mantle since that 1952 Topps baseball of his gets brought up from time to time here.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Some card collectors keep trying to find the comparisons between sports cards and non-sport cards, but if you want to understand the two hobbies you have to focus on the differences.

One of the wisest things that has been said on this forum in a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:


What? Say it ain’t so, Joe DiMaggio! (just throwing in a Yankees joke there ).
Surely, a portion of the good folks in the UK have heard of the famed New York Yankee baseball team though, right? If they have, they probably heard of legendary player Mickey Mantle in passing then?!?
Wolfie, I’m sure that you have heard of Mantle since that 1952 Topps baseball of his gets brought up from time to time here.

Of Course people in UK have heard of him and DiMaggio and the Yankees, but the vast majority probably haven't - why? because baseball isn't a huge game in the UK. I reckon a lot of Americans would be hard pressed to know much about UK Footballers from the 1950's(and I mean the world game of Football not the US exclusive version). I fully appreciate the exploits of Mantle and his standing in US sports history but it's wrong to assume the whole world knows (or is particularly interested).

Personally I still collect "Cigarette, Gum and Trade Cards" as well as the modern issues "Trading Cards", these terms are in use in the card circles I am involved with here in the UK. The two UK card magazines I still receive on a regular basis have over the years dropped the word "cigarette" from their titles although the catalogues in use today in the UK stil use the words "Cigarette" and "Trade" cards.

Thinking about high values cards, the Honus Wagner card was originally issued as a Cigarette card and the Mickey Mantle card was originally issued as a Gum card and neither format is used today for issuing cards unless you include the Dunkin stickers which are wrapped around gum. The first cards known to be issued were in fact "Trade" cards.

To my mind the term "Gum cards" has evolved into "Trading Cards" not "Entertainment Cards" now that cards are produced as a commercial enterprise whilst the term "Cigarette cards" is still in modern day usage however in my experience due to the Pokemon phenomenon a lot of people are now familiar with the term "Game Card" and assume Trading cards and Game cards are one and the same.

regards

John

quote:

Originally posted by Heroes For Hire:

Wolfie, I’m sure that you have heard of Mantle since that 1952 Topps baseball of his gets brought up from time to time here.

Oh yes i have heard of him but that is because i collect cards and am into sports. The normal everyday person in the street would have no idea who he was.

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
To my mind the term "Gum cards" has evolved into "Trading Cards" not "Entertainment Cards" now that cards are produced as a commercial enterprise whilst the term "Cigarette cards" is still in modern day usage however in my experience due to the Pokemon phenomenon a lot of people are now familiar with the term "Game Card" and assume Trading cards and Game cards are one and the same.

Great points.

I think in the US Trading Cards is still used as a way to discuss all trading cards -- including sports cards.

I like the term 'Entertainment Card' -- because cards in our hobby -- even if they don't cover TV/Movies, etc -- they were made to be entertaining.

It could be argued that some cards would be considered educational -- but I'd still say unless those cards are made for use in an institutional setting -- i.e. flash cards, they are still made to bring joy/entertainment.

Regardless -- Trade Cards, Gum Cards, Entertainment cards, Culture Cards, etc -- all better options than non-sport cards.

If you are looking for one all-encompassing term, then I think for non-sport cards made in the last couple of decades, it would have to be simply Collectible Cards. Then you could go on to add on one of the dozens of subset category names that best describes it.

All the major modern cards are being sold as the product itself. Moreover, they are being sold as a collectible that should not only be kept and preserved, but also has a value that will increase. Some people may still be trading them, but the lure is in selling and buying cards and in their ultimately being worth cold hard cash someday.

The card market has even taken on the aspirations usually associated with antiques or fine art. Something I could understand with truly rare vintage issues, but not with that 1/10 autograph card signed by Ben Affleck yesterday.

Anyway, you have to drill down with this fragmentation of non-sport cards because there isn't any universal term that can be agreed upon when there are so many different subjects and different opinions for how individual card collectors view those subjects.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
HELENA BONHAM CARTER

HARRY POTTER HALF-BLOOD PRINCE

$860.00 Sold Feb 6, 2022 Item: 304337409741
$671.00 Sold Jan 23, 2022 Item: 294730873322
$650.00 Sold Dec 2, 2021 Item: 124982143675

Looks like a BIN for $399 also sold on Christmas.

Merry Christmas on that one!

I turned down buying on of Carter's Potter autographs late last year for somewhere in the $300 range. Oops.

Seems like this card was bought by a deep pocketed person who has been talking about these on their podcast.

I believe this is also the buyer that paid over $20,000 for the Potter quad autograph on Goldin auctions.

I don't believe these prices will be sustained -- I could be wrong, but this just seems like a person with lots of money, no patience and FOMO.