Hello!

I'm fairly new to autograph card collecting, though quite an old magic tg collector.

The fact is that I spotted this Emma Watson auto from a seller I've recenly purchased a few cards from:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181703101638

To me the signature seems so obviously fake. But makes me wonder now if these cards i've purchased from this seller are fakes as well.

I've been comparing, side to side, suspicious cards with legit autos from the same card set. I Checked the card print, the color tones, the cut length of the cards and offset. The question is: How accourate are counterfeiters when it comes to reach the same print color tones, paper thickness and so on? Is a proper side to side comparison enough or do you have better methods?

Thank you in advance!

Welcome to Card Talk DreamCrawler.

You have started off with one of the most tricky topics, counterfeits of certified autograph cards. It makes a lot of people very paranoid very fast.

Can it happen? Yes.

Does it happen a lot? No. Generally speaking it is confined to higher priced cards rather than commons.

Can the certified card be authentic and the signature still be bad? Yes, if the signer used an autopen or a ghost, or if blanks of a genuine card got out.

Is it hard to counterfeit a certified autograph card and forge a decent looking signature? It sure is, and that is why a certified card is still your best protection from a fake signature.

Now about this card, I don't rely on scans. If you don't have the card in your hand, you can't talk about colors, size, thickness or comparison to other similar cards. You can say that the signature doesn't match other "known" samples, but you have to be sure that your sample is a good signature. You can't talk about an autopen unless you have two or three of exactly the same signatures on multiple items. One autopen by itself is pretty much undetectable.

So what about the Watson? I have her auto on a certified card from another set and it is different. That doesn't mean this one is bad, it's just not the same, she might not be a consistent signer. If you go to webjon.com there are postings from 2010 about the card you are looking at. It might give you some more information to make up your mind. Even if you decide negatively about the card, it does not necessarily mean that the source is bad. A seller can get stuck by someone else too, so one bad item does not mean they are all suspect unless there are other problems.

As an autograph card collector myself, I always try to be very wary about declaring signatures genuine or fake. It is too easy to start seeing fakes when they are not there and suddenly everyone is checking their cards when there is nothing wrong with them. Well, most of them. I prefer to err on the side of caution for myself and if a signature makes me uneasy for any reason I just pass on it. I think that is the best advice I can give to anyone.

After comparing that autograph with mine, it seems legit. The signature is the same, even if the pen isn't the same. Hope this helps a bit.

Thank you Raven for the huge answer, much appreciated!

The point is that in that webjon site, they show two exactly alike cards, which is mostly impossible, and most fun part is they prove its written backwards which only a machine can do. And the card i mention from ebay is exactly the same.

I have that same Watson card from the same set and the line is much thinner, the auto in general is way different, the stroke is fast and natural.

Perhaps the seller does not know, but with webjon proofs I have serious suspicions of that 700$ card being a counterfeit. I know about paranoia on fake mtg cards, which after all dont look nor feel close to the real thing. But that exact sale makes me doubt

There are several signs that would make me think that this is an autopen autograph.

The most obvious signs are the thickness of signature. It looks consistent throughout the signature. A real autograph would have differences in thickness throughout due to pressure and the way people hold pens. A machine is not capable to replicate this.

Another giveaway would be the letters "M" and "W". You can see that the tips are darker as if whoever/whatever signed stopped at that point. Again this wouldn't be something natural that a person would do.

I am not familiar with posting pictures on here but if someone can tell me how to do it I will upload a picture of an Emma Watson Autograph from the same set which is significantly different to the one in that listing. That way collectors may be able to judge for themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by Card Owner:
There are several signs that would make me think that this is an autopen autograph.

I would post mine, actually I purchased mine from you, card owner (nice to read you here!) again, its absolutely different. Perhaps you could post the item link from ebay, it still has got the scan you did so people can compare.

If Emma Watson signed like 150 to 200 autos, I doubt she did sign them in so many stands, using so different autos/pen pressures/strokes etc.


Edit: The suspicious auto is newly posted here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171745499948

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DreamCrawler,