Hi all,ive just bought my 20th single box of Star Trek(various products over about 3 years) off the same well known u.k.dealer.each time i get the very mininum of inserts.all very low value auto cards all the time.ive never pulled one decent card from any of the boxes from him.after thinking about it for a while and reading other peoples box breaks and plus the fact that he always sells 5 or 6 loose boxes on his table and never sealed cases.i smell a rat!!i think he is somehow cherry picking cases.i dont believe that im that unlucky??i think i have bought my last box from him.any advice would be welcome.

I guess you have to go with your gut instinct or talk to the guy about it.

My one question to you is...if your buying sealed boxes, how is he getting into them to give you low value cards ?

lets say there are 4 'hits' per case.when he has those 4 'hits' he stops opening boxes then he puts them out to sell as sealed boxes knowing that theres a pretty good chance there nothing good left to find.maybe it takes him to open 4-8 boxes to get the 'hits'it still leaves him with some boxes to sell.thats the only way i can think of??

That's a lot of boxes. . . the bottom line is that if you don't feel comfortable with the seller you should go somewhere else. . .

Good luck. . .

Jon

It's so easy to cherry pick cases and then sell off the other boxes. I would suggest you buy boxes from various dealers and based on what you get out of them you can make up your own mind.

Not all dealers adopt this practice, the trick is to find one you can trust and then stick with them.

if you can point me in the right direction?.please .p.m. wolfie.

I have wondered about such things too. Talking to other hobbyists it seems just like bad luck. However, someone did tell me they know off a dealer weighing boxes because prop/relic cards are suppose to be more weight - seems unlikely.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
It's so easy to cherry pick cases and then sell off the other boxes.

IF it is so easy to cherry pick a case I think the card manufacturers are the ones to blame.

The formula shouldn't be that there are a known number of VL cards per case, so that anyone busting that case knows when to stop when they have all the good cards.

This is especially true of some of the new releases that have only one autograph card per case. Once the pack is opened, its apparent that none of the other boxes in that case will have an autograph. This is very unfair to collectors who buy those extra boxes, never knowing that they had no chance of pulling an autograph.

Its important that you have confidence in the integrity of the person from whom you are buying boxes and cases. Most dealers are not trying to stiff their customers, but it would be better if the card companies made it harder for those bad apples that are trying to take advantage of the system.

quote:

Originally posted by Freddy:
My one question to you is...if your buying sealed boxes, how is he getting into them to give you low value cards ?

quote:

Originally posted by Gregore:
However, someone did tell me they know off a dealer weighing boxes because prop/relic cards are suppose to be more weight - seems unlikely.

If it's a product such as Allen and Ginter, with dozens of mini cards, mini relics, a case topper, cloth, wood, plates, etc, all within individual boxes, I find it difficult to believe a dealer would have a way to know what a difference in weight between boxes really means.

If, on the other hand, it's something that has very few chases, and those weighing much more than a single card, it's easy to ... um weigh the difference.

Ive just had an idea,ive just got my digital kitchen scales out and a case incentive card weighs 11 grams.if theres an hidden archive box or a bonus at the bottom of the box the dealer is on to it.talk about rumbled??never again will i buy a loose box.my eyes are well and truly opened!!

I'm not sure I've even allowed to post on this subject, got in trouble the last time I did.

Yes, It's possible.
Yes, There are dealers who do.
No, there is no sure-fire way to tell.

I don't know the dealer of whom you speak and I'm not accusing anyone of anything... But as Jon said, that's a lot of boxes with a bad track record.

Personally, I have a separate case that I open from. Sometimes I only open half, but it's the top half then and I usually end up continuing all the way to the bottom (no willpower). I have another case(s) that I fill orders with. I also almost never break before I send out my pre-orders, those that ordered in advance deserve to have them on the way as soon as possible. I get a little jealous sometimes of the pulls, but it's actually good for me to have customers get good pulls from my boxes.

Raven is right to an extent. The manufacturers have gotten very mechanical with their insertion. But it's not really their fault. Collectors started demanding guaranteed hits per box, and that has just carried over to cases. I, for one, would not like to go back to completely random where one box might have 3 autos and two more have none at all.

Finding a dealer you trust is one of the best things you can do in this hobby. A good dealer can find stuff for you, hold stuff for the next payday, and more. Along with not cherry-picking boxes and cases.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by markdennett:
Ive just had an idea,ive just got my digital kitchen scales out and a case incentive card weighs 11 grams.if theres an hidden archive box or a bonus at the bottom of the box the dealer is on to it.talk about rumbled??never again will i buy a loose box.my eyes are well and truly opened!!

But on the other hand are a couple of my customers who pulled Daniel Craig autos from single boxes of Bond Heroes and Villains.

So it's always a gamble. I wouldn't swear off boxes entirely, just proceed with the knowledge you have acquired here and you'll be in good shape.

Ed

Think ill save up and every 3 to 4 months buy a case off that famous auction site.should be able to get a case of every star trek product from now on if i do that.well and truly stung!! .gutted!!

quote:

Originally posted by Scifi Cards:

Personally, I have a separate case that I open from. Sometimes I only open half, but it's the top half then and I usually end up continuing all the way to the bottom (no willpower). I have another case(s) that I fill orders with. I also almost never break before I send out my pre-orders, those that ordered in advance deserve to have them on the way as soon as possible. I get a little jealous sometimes of the pulls, but it's actually good for me to have customers get good pulls from my boxes.

I do the same thing, pre-orders get filled first, then I start opening. Any dealer who cherry picks their cases should be ashamed, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by markdennett:
Think ill save up and every 3 to 4 months buy a case off that famous auction site.should be able to get a case of every star trek product from now on if i do that.well and truly stung!! .gutted!!

Or buy boxes / cases from a dealer you trust. Randomly buying from eBay can yield the same results you are getting. . . it's all about who you are buying from, not where you are buying from.

Good luck!

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by markdennett:

if you can point me in the right direction?.

.

Due to the rules of the forum there are lots of things on this subject that we are not allowed to talk about but if you need help drop me a line.

More than likely, it is just bad luck. I have a local shop (within 100 miles) that when I go there I usually buy a box. I almost always hit the low end on chase/hits per box. One day, I discussed this with him. He is not a non sport card collector (this is a comic book shop) and was disappointed that I was disappointed and felt this way. He (really he did not have to do this, so don't think it will happen with your dealer) gave me two boxes FREE(Xena and Hercules Animated nd Star Trek 40th Anniversery) Now, one would say it was stuff that had been sitting on his self for years (it was) but that did not matter. When I got home and opened the boxes I got a Bruce Campbell auto out of the box of Xena and I got a Jeri Ryan Auto/costume out of the Star Trek box. Two big hits (at least for me).
This was two years ago and I still buy a box from this guy when I am in Jackson. My luck is still about the same. But I know it is not him, just the luck of the draw.

I use a certain Dealer in the uk.....
I have bought cases and boxes of him and never had problems, got a case of CSI New York off him and got all 3 Costume cards in the 1 case (The Shirt & the 2 Tie cards) NICE!!!!
The only problem I ever had with this Dealer was 1 case of Marvel 70th..... The case Topper was in there, 11 boxes were Shrink wrapped & the last box was not..... 1st thing you would probably do and it's very easy to do, is blame the dealer, I did not!!!! Me and this friend decided to crack that box, 24 packs all in there, all the chase odds per pack and a sketch card (Daredevil by Brian Postman) bit dissapoiting, but the other 11 boxes pulled some nice Sketches
This Dealer even went out of his way to get me 1 card so I could have a Master Set of Stargate Atlantis seasons 3 & 4!!!!!
He was at a fair and saw this card and knew I needed it, so he got it for me, charged me what he paid for it.....
I've got a Master set of Stargate Atlantis Seasons 3 and 4 now The last card was the 3 case incentive card
I can honestly say this and you can quote me on this: "This dealer whom I am referring to does not Cherry pick Cases or Boxes!!!!!!! He has been HONEST RELIABLE TRUSTWORTHY & EXELLENT!!!!! "
The Marvel 70th case was used as an example, yes it actually happened, me and my friend believe that the 1 box being like that was due to a Technical Glitch, THERE CAN BE NO BLAME ON RA OR THE DEALER, NONE WHATSOEVER!!!!! These things happen
"Me & my friend do not believe that the case in question (pardon the pun) was cherry picked and we do not believe that the boxes were cherry picked either!!!!!!"
If you are the dealer and your reading my post....... Big thank you

KADRAN00157

quote:

Originally posted by markdennett:
Think ill save up and every 3 to 4 months buy a case off that famous auction site.should be able to get a case of every star trek product from now on if i do that.well and truly stung!! .gutted!!

Still you have to trust who you are dealing with.

Is the case really a sealed case, or a lot of 12 boxes that make up a case?

You check the tape sealing the top. Do you check the bottom too? Plus the dealer could always say it was opened by customs if you bought from outside the UK.

Find a trustworthy dealer first, then buy in whatever quantity you can.

Ed

I've never had a good pull out any single boxes (infact one STNG series I got 2 boxes and pulled the same low end auto!!!!) but it's just luck when you buy single boxes. If 4 boxes out of a 12 box case have high end you only have a 25% chance with a single box anyway.