Does anyone know if there were any fakes of the Smallville A26 Michael Rosenbaum auto?

I ask because there are a few on ebay, both current listings and sold recently, and the sigs vary, some even dramatically. How would I be able to tell a fake apart from the real thing?

Any help would be appreciated.

That's a bit of a tough one to answer because Michael Rosenbaum's autograph is so poor. It is both illegible and inconsistent in its illegibility. The main reason I never tried to pick up the Smallville autograph is just because it looks so crappy, I hated to spend any money on it.

I am not aware of any specific fakes, but when it first came out the card cost quite a bit more than the asking price now, so of course its possible. When you have someone who signs anyway he feels like at the time you need to look at several comparisons, and even then its tough to judge. I would worry more about the longer signatures than those almost initial scribbles he puts down.

Since this is a licensed card you can also compare it to other autograph cards in the set once you have it in your hand. A fake autograph will be on a counterfeit card, so if the card can be reasonably determined to be authentic then the signature should be also. I know people can argue that point, but I have never seen a genuine autograph on a fake certified autograph card , and the reverse is also more likely to be true than not.

If you decide to buy one, just use a reputable dealer and make sure you have a return policy. Ask some questions before you bid. I know at least two of those sellers listing it now and have used them myself. If you don't like how the card looks when you receive it, send it back and get your money.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
if the card can be reasonably determined to be authentic then the signature should be also.

Generally true, however, sadly, some cards that were sold unsigned after Inkworks went out of business are now showing up signed on eBay.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

Generally true, however, sadly, some cards that were sold unsigned after Inkworks went out of business are now showing up signed on eBay.

I hope that is more urban legend than true, but it really is the worst case scenario because than you have the genuine card and the fake signature. With someone like Rosenbaum, who doesn't lay down a consistent autograph, you have a real nightmare.

Its funny but I actually checked your website before I replied because I wanted to see it you had written anything specific to the Rosenbaum cards. I didn't find anything just about him.

If we had more reliable info about which blank Inkwork cards might have gotten out and how many it would help a lot. Inkworks was a great company, but I don't doubt that things happened in the end that maybe shouldn't have.

Just search eBay for Inkworks Unsigned. You can also search for Alias unsigned. I imagine there are more.

Shame these were not destroyed or at least marked in some way as aftermarket cards.

Ed

Its a shame to see those Garner blanks sell to someone and magically the buyer is selling signed versions.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Since this is a licensed card you can also compare it to other autograph cards in the set once you have it in your hand. A fake autograph will be on a counterfeit card, so if the card can be reasonably determined to be authentic then the signature should be also. I know people can argue that point, but I have never seen a genuine autograph on a fake certified autograph card , and the reverse is also more likely to be true than not.

I think that, generally speaking, this is a safe rule of thumb however autograph cards from the same series have been known to show up on alternate stock. A classic example would be the James Bond 40th Anniversary style cards: some have bright white backgrounds, others more of a cream; the gun barrel motif surrounding the actors picture has been a deep blue, on others more of a purple; some cards are on much thicker card stock; some cards have had "Congratulations!" text missing on the back and so on.

Of course this run of autographs has been released over 10 years so you'd expect some variance but even smaller runs for the same set can display oddities that confuse collectors, like the Eliza Dushku auto (from Buffy, or was it Angel?) that was embossed.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

Generally true, however, sadly, some cards that were sold unsigned after Inkworks went out of business are now showing up signed on eBay.

I hope that is more urban legend than true, but it really is the worst case scenario because than you have the genuine card and the fake signature. With someone like Rosenbaum, who doesn't lay down a consistent autograph, you have a real nightmare.

Its funny but I actually checked your website before I replied because I wanted to see it you had written anything specific to the Rosenbaum cards. I didn't find anything just about him.

If we had more reliable info about which blank Inkwork cards might have gotten out and how many it would help a lot. Inkworks was a great company, but I don't doubt that things happened in the end that maybe shouldn't have.

This is what I worry about. I had also looked at webjon's site and hadn't seen anything about Rosenbaum specifically, yet I worry about the potential number of blanks that may have ultimately ended up in a deceitful person's hands.

I did search ebay for Inkworks unsigned as Scifi Cards suggested and thankfully, the Rosenbaum card is not part of those listings. Also, the seller that has listed many of these unsigned cards is the same seller that has a couple of the varying Rosenbaum autos, including the cheapest one, which is pretty much a scribble. I have purchased items from that seller before, but I believe it was all non-sig items (inserts, promos, etc.)

I do also understand and agree with you on your point about the "scribble-sigs" in general. Honestly, due to Rosenbaum's crappy style, I normally wouldn't want to buy an auto like that. However, being a completist, his is one of 3 autos I need to complete my auto set of the Inkworks seasons 1-6 run.

Thanks to everyone for your responses and knowledge.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Starchild,

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
if the card can be reasonably determined to be authentic then the signature should be also.

Generally true, however, sadly, some cards that were sold unsigned after Inkworks went out of business are now showing up signed on eBay.

Off Topic, but I thought I spotted a fake Christina Hendricks auto on ebay recently....with a Razor seal too. One can never be too careful now with Inkworks' products, because, as was said before, you don't know what's out there that was originally unsigned.

quote:

Originally posted by jane:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
if the card can be reasonably determined to be authentic then the signature should be also.

Generally true, however, sadly, some cards that were sold unsigned after Inkworks went out of business are now showing up signed on eBay.

Off Topic, but I thought I spotted a fake Christina Hendricks auto on ebay recently....with a Razor seal too. One can never be too careful now with Inkworks' products, because, as was said before, you don't know what's out there that was originally unsigned.

Out of curiosity Jane, how could you tell?
I just had a look at the few on ebay right now, and wow, the price of her auto has gone up
Obviously because of Mad Men

I don't know for sure, but the signature was much sloppier, shakier and had a couple of places where you could tell the motion was stopped and started. That's usually not a good sign.

That's interesting Jane, I will have to pay closer attention from now on.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

Generally true, however, sadly, some cards that were sold unsigned after Inkworks went out of business are now showing up signed on eBay.

I hope that is more urban legend than true, but it really is the worst case scenario because than you have the genuine card and the fake signature. With someone like Rosenbaum, who doesn't lay down a consistent autograph, you have a real nightmare.

Unfortunately not urban legend:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271171...id=p3984.m1438.l2649

Seller bought 4 blanks of this auto, then this card shows up, which has a signature that is very different than pack pulled Garner autos. I have no doubt this wasn't pack pulled with a signature.

It is too bad Inkworks let this happen....

I wouldn't say that they let it happen.
They liquidated assets when they we out of business...
What happens to those assets is out of their control.

Maybe they should have marked the cards so others know how to identify the unsigned/unreleased cards.

I'm not complaining, I've been able to pick up a few cards that I would have been able to. A double edged sword I guess!

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byrne:
I wouldn't say that they let it happen.
They liquidated assets when they we out of business...
What happens to those assets is out of their control.

Maybe they should have marked the cards so others know how to identify the unsigned/unreleased cards.

I'm not complaining, I've been able to pick up a few cards that I would have been able to. A double edged sword I guess!

There were several problems with the way Inkworks went out and I'm not going to rehash them, but this thread is discussing one specific thing. Business is business and when you're forced to liquidate its very understandable that you are going to get the best deal you can. However that shouldn't mean you do reckless things when you know what will result.

The unsigned, blank "certified" cards that were still in Inkworks inventory, for who knows what reason, should have had a small hole punched through them before they were sold. Simple as that, problem solved. Whether they sold these cards or they just managed to get out somehow, I am not in a position to say.

Here's what I do know, when blank, certified cards make their way into the secondary market they are bought by collectors as a novelty addition to the set, but there are also always people who will try to fake the autograph and sell it as the real deal. The more the cards change hands, the more the odds go up that it will happen.

When I was talking about urban legends, I wasn't trying to deny that this issue exists. It shouldn't, but we know it does. What we don't know is how many cards are involved or even all the names. Here, no one has even confirmed yet that blanks of the Rosenbaum Smallville signature card ever got out. It's just that he has a crappy signature, so it's a how do we know type of discussion, that opens up the can of worms.

There are two opposite dangers here. That collectors don't question high end Inkworks autograph cards because the cards are genuine, and also that collectors question them so much they are afraid to buy any of them, including the majority that are perfectly fine.

That's why I always hate talking about fake signatures, and certainly forgeries on blank certified cards are the worst case. Thankfully it is a rare occurance, but it is a possibility with at least some high end Inkwork cards, and I do believe that someone should have done better on behalf of the hobby.

Unfortunately there are unsigned autographs out there from virtually every company.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Unfortunately there are unsigned autographs out there from virtually every company.

If that's the case, and you would know better than I, then they all should do better on behalf of the hobby.

If you'd like to see some of what is out there I've written about unsigned cards on webjon a few times -- just search for unsigned on webjon.

There are several unsigned cards on eBay right now including unsigned cards from Cryptozoic, Topps, Cards Inc, Stellar, Imagine and Comic Images (and probably others, I just did a cursory look). Rittenhouse has used unsigned cards as partial compensation to actors for signing cards -- I saw Richard Kiel with hundreds of his unsigned cards at a show once -- a big old stack of 'em just sitting there.

I totally agree, I wish all of the companies would have done something to prevent this.

It's been awhile since I've seen them at conventions, but you used to be able to find a few unsigned cards at different actors signing tables (like Richard Kiel) that you could purchase from them and they would sign them right there for you. I bought a couple of B5 autos that way, a Wil Wheaton ST auto among others. USUALLY they would put a date on them or something that made it unique so to me they were in a different boat. As examples:

Wheaton wrote SDCC 2004 (or whatever year it was) with his signature. Richard Cox (I think that was his name) had uncut cards from Skybox for B5. So his was actually 2 uncut cards.

Personally I've never gone after unsigned cards. But I NEED a Tarantino Alias card lol. I would have been broke going for that card back then if it had been released.