By now everyone has heard that the Titanic sightseeing submersible has lost communication with the Mothership and is in an unknown place. I say it that way because there is still a chance that it may have made it up to the surface and the planes just haven't spotted it yet. That would be the best-case scenario and then they would need to open the bolted down hatch from outside before the air supply runs out.

It may already be too late, as the submersible may have had a structural failure and been crushed by the pressure or had water flood it. The worst possible outcome is that they sunk or got tangled up in Titanic debris and are stuck near the bottom, waiting for the air to run out. I find that a chilling prospect and I hope that its over if they are still down there, because there seems to be no way anyone can bring it up in time, even if they knew where they were.

Which brings me to my point. We as si-fi fans watch all these water movies, "The Abyss", "Leviathan", "Meg", "Sphere", "Deep Blue Sea". yeah even "Aquaman". We think all these fancy underwater labs and machines can exist and then we find out that the best submarines can't do half of what they do in the movies, and they can't go down below 3000 feet. The Titanic lies at 12,500 feet. That we even got pictures of it is amazing and should have been enough.

I don't understand people wanting to spend 8 minutes in Outer Space just to see blackness, any more than I understand people wanting to stand at the summit of Mount Everest. It's fine to cheat death and tell the tale, until you don't. Then in those last few seconds of recognition, I would wonder what the hell I was doing there. To pay $250,000 and get killed in a sardine can seems like a bad return on investment.

I hope they are found alive, it will be a fantastic story. But reality isn't what you see in science fiction, and it will take a miracle. Maybe this will result in rich people finding more charities to support to cement their legacy and would-be adventurers of all stripes will think about the consequences of their adrenaline addictions before they set out on their quests. Normal living is hard enough.

I understand the desire/need to explore for historical or scientific reasons, but something like this sightseeing trip seems to be over the top. Given the depth of the wreck, the obvious AND unobvious hazards, and the legacy of this particular ship, you would think this is a no-go zone for anyone who is not doing research.

The thought of getting in a steel can that has to be bolted from the outside so that I can go down 2.5 miles underwater is beyond terrifying for me. I cannot imagine what the people on this sub have gone through, and I hope they are found alive.

Most recent news is that rhythmic underwater noises were detected by Canadian sonar, but the source or location is still not pinpointed. To me that is horrible because it implies hope that the crew is alive, but the situation is hopeless.

If this was in "Meg", Jason Statham would go down there in a second submersible, tie on a line and drag Titan back up. That option doesn't seem to exist in real life, and no one is even attempting to dive down before their air supply will be used up by Thursday morning.

There are so many questions here. Why do billionaires choose to create and/or fund private companies just to participate in dangerous excursions? Why does a man who has been down to see the Titanic 35 times have to go again? Why does anyone have to go unless it's for salvage or treasure in mind? Where is James Cameron when you need him? Bad joke.

Eventually people will have to go down there just to see if they can find Titan. Here's a thought. Put the funding money to medical research that saves lives and leave a ghost ship alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Here's a thought. Put the funding money to medical research that saves lives and leave a ghost ship alone.

The people who paid for this trip are mostly very rich folks who spend their leisure dollars on things that they think are entertaining. Just like you spend your "fun" money on cards.

Would the world be a better place if you quit the hobby and gave that money to St. Jude's?

I do regularly donate to St. Jude's and Schriners Hospital for Children, both remarkable organizations, and thanks for asking.

It's a point where they literally don't know what to spend their money on next. They've got houses, fast cars, private jets and ridiculously expensive watches and gadgets, spending on something like this or going into space is the next logical step(to them).

The experts I've been hearing over here have basically said it's a recovery/salvage exercise right from the start. If they find it, they can't raise it too quickly because of the risks of 'the bends'(decompression sickness) which could kill the occupants. Can they filter in extra air in some way? Kind of doubtful. Sorry to say, it isn't going to have a happy ending. I really hope it does, but my own Vulcan logic says not.
Apparently there are only 5 craft in the world that can operated at that depth and I think two of those are 'remote' vessels rather than having a crew.

Right, you said it faster. If someone is wealthy, not just rich, but wealthy as in someone who has many millions of dollars with more coming in every year, they will have flown to see a solar eclipse or gone to Paris, Tahiti, or some exclusive resort on a whim. They can buy any collectible or vehicle they want or have a mansion built to their exact specifications. What do you do for a thrill after you've been to all the exotic locales your friends have bragged about and toured the oceans on a yacht? At that point you want something beyond going on safari or watching an erupting volcano where there is a little more of a risk of danger? You might want to climb some mountain or fly into space for a few seconds and see the earth from there. Some are going to want to board a submersible and see the Titanic themselves.

I saw that Canada sent out a P-3 which is a plane equipped specifically to find subs - even subs that don't want to be found. I hope they find it soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I do regularly donate to St. Jude's and Schriners Hospital for Children, both remarkable organizations, and thanks for asking.

Glad to hear it, and I commend you for doing so.

But my point stands -- if you spend money on frivolities (like nonsport cards), you've got no place to criticize someone else who also does, even if they spend a lot more than you.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
I do regularly donate to St. Jude's and Schriners Hospital for Children, both remarkable organizations, and thanks for asking.

Glad to hear it, and I commend you for doing so.

But my point stands -- if you spend money on frivolities (like nonsport cards), you've got no place to criticize someone else who also does, even if they spend a lot more than you.

It wasn't the money I was criticizing, if that's the word you choose to apply to me. It's the needless recklessness of people who are not scientists or explorers or discoverers of anything new, but who want to experience the ultimate high of doing something they think few mortals can lay claim to having accomplished. A billionaire or a pauper can have the same bad judgement. It costs nothing to stand on a beach and watch a hurricane make landfall, or subway surf on the top of the "J" train, but it's sure not smart and it can kill you.

As for your logic about no one ever saying anything about anyone's spending because they are wasting money too, buying an autograph card isn't comparable to buying a seat on Blue Origin for one thing.

The other thing is that someone's personal waste and bad judgement may not affect you and you see no reason to say a word, but institutional waste and governmental waste might. Who do you think will be footing the bill to mobilize the Coast Guard, the US Air Force and the US Navy on this rescue mission? Not the owner of Titan, that company will probably go bankrupt. We will pay with our tax dollars. And for those that are endangering themselves in a search effort that maybe shouldn't have been necessary, what about them?

I really do hope they find these men alive. If not, I hope that they died quickly from an implosion in the decent. To be down there waiting for the air to run is the stuff of nightmares and that's what many people are thinking about now.

This should be shut down no place on a trading card forum with posters making inappropriate and insensitive comments.

Well, it is the Chatter section which is meant for non-trading card discussions and no one is making religous/anti-religous nor political nor "hot button issue"-related statements. It is a current news story that has captured the attention of the world - one of many stories of mystery, adventure, and drama that has been told since humans first decided to explore what was beyond the horizon. Yes, there has been speculation on the fate of those on the sub but it has been respectful and we're all still hoping for a happy ending.

quote:

Originally posted by Batman:
This should be shut down no place on a trading card forum with posters making inappropriate and insensitive comments.

I disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

It wasn't the money I was criticizing

But if you look at the specific line I pulled from your post, it was the money you were criticizing. And that's all I was commenting about -- people have the right to spend their money on what they want, even if it is monumentally stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

It wasn't the money I was criticizing

But if you look at the specific line I pulled from your post, it was the money you were criticizing. And that's all I was commenting about -- people have the right to spend their money on what they want, even if it is monumentally stupid.

That's fair enough to say. There are several aspects to this tragedy that speak to different people in different ways and ultimately it just provokes thought on what is or isn't important to the individual.

It is now a tragedy because there is no hope and 5 people are dead. Their air supply has run out because there was too little time for a rescue to be mounted under these conditions, but the worst outcome may not have happened. There is a bulletin just now that one of the deployed robots has come across a debris field that isn't the Titanic. If the Titan blew up in decent, it would have been too fast for anyone to suffer. Knowing that the crew was not alive down there for any extended period of time would be a blessing to those men's friends and families I'm sure and I hope that turns out to be the case.

Afterwards there will surely be investigations on the safety of this deep-sea operation, as well as other for-profit operations catering to professional and amateur adventurers.

Anyone catch the on board Billionaires son who had to go to the Blink 182 concert to stress release his grieving?

Personally I think the sub imploded on Sunday but really hoped they could be saved just so dad could return to disown him.

quote:

Originally posted by mykdude:
Personally I think the sub imploded on Sunday

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if that's correct. It sounds like the core may have been breached at the same time communications were lost and they never even saw the Titanic.

There is going to be a lot of forensic examinations whenever they can get parts of Titan up. James Cameron is now talking and says that the captain/CEO was warned multiple times that the experimental nature of the craft was unsafe.

I think the result of this may be new regulations on submersibles, just like the sinking of the Titanic changed maritime laws. Weird huh?

But the OceanGate CEO was onboard for the trip, so he certainly must have thought they would make it despite some failures on other dives. Personally, when the contract has a death waiver, I'm out. Not being funny, just stating the obvious for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:

I think the result of this may be new regulations on submersibles, just like the sinking of the Titanic changed maritime laws. Weird huh?

Haha! I guess, but greed and ambition have always pushed technical progress much faster than regulation. Regulation often has no clue what to regulate until the boundaries have been pushed with disaster.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
But the OceanGate CEO was onboard for the trip, so he certainly must have thought they would make it despite some failures on other dives. Personally, when the contract has a death waiver, I'm out. Not being funny, just stating the obvious for me.

Right, plus one of the other passengers was basically an expert on Titanic dives with 37 under his belt. This leads me to think he was more of a tour guide than a paying customer. Much like the Titanic it seems there were very smart people on board who knew how to calculate the risk over success factor. Either the calculations were wrong or just simply the risk factor won.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,

And while the world (and CardTalk) got wound up about 5 tourists visiting the Titanic, 600 refugees died in the Mediterranean Sea, and nearly 40 more died near the Canary Islands, all trying to reach Europe.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
And while the world (and CardTalk) got wound up about 5 tourists visiting the Titanic, 600 refugees died in the Mediterranean Sea, and nearly 40 more died near the Canary Islands, all trying to reach Europe.

And that involves money as well as the people smugglers need paying which I believe is a five figure sum per person.