No real catagory for this, but an article in today's NY Post caught my eye. Chef Gordon Ramsay is accusing his father-in-law of fraud on a guaranteed lease. He claims that his signature was added to a million dollar lease illegally by his father-in-law using one of two autopen machines that Ramsay's owns for the purpose of signing his books.

I don't know who's lying, and it should be pretty easy to find out, but I think Ramsay deserves all the trouble. Rather than actually sign his name for people buying his books, he uses an autopen. That is the updated version of a rubber stamp. Its a perfect signature and can not be detected by itself until you compare it to other autopens and realize its a created carbon copy.

I am tired of celebrities using these machines. I would rather that they just turn down all autograph requests than pollute the market with copies.

Worse yet, fans think they have a real autograph. They think their fan mail is being answered and they in turn try to sell some of these items to others. Its a darn shame and I'm kind of happy that Ramsay had his own lazy ways turned against him, if that is what happened.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

Autopens are used alot!! more than you would think. Thats why I put in my contracts with actors that I am at the signing. So they dont pass it off to an assistant or use an autopen. They argue the autopen is like them signing since it just replicates their movements, blah blah blah. I dont think most fans really care or would ever know the difference.

Actually as Mrblue said the are common. The can be spoted easy though. Most autopens the siganture is shaky. Due to the machine vibarating.
You can also notice that there is a little dot of ink where the sig starts and it ends in any text break. Due to the machine stop and starting.
Plus the whole sig has the same ink thickness through out the sig as well as it is all signed at the same angle. If there isnt any varation to ink thickness and different angles. Then I start checking for a autopen.

I have been doing through the mail auto request for about 10 years. The big stars are always the one who love the autopens. I trash everyone I get.

quote:

Originally posted by MrBlueofnyc:
Autopens are used alot!! more than you would think. Thats why I put in my contracts with actors that I am at the signing. So they dont pass it off to an assistant or use an autopen. They argue the autopen is like them signing since it just replicates their movements, blah blah blah. I dont think most fans really care or would ever know the difference.

Well, first of all I love your signings. I have several now and many of those actors, like the Clarke for instance, don't really have affordable autograph cards in those sets for which they have signed.

I do think that fans would care, if they knew the difference, and certainly autograph collectors who do know the difference care. An autopen is a fake signature. Call it an authorized fake if you prefer, but it is not a hand signed autograph. Despite that, once they find their way into the secondary market, they are generally priced and sold as authentic autographs.

Celebrities do collectors a great disservice by putting them out there, yet as you mention its a pretty common practice. I always think of this when helpful collectors and websites give out all these addresses and encourage people to send in autograph requests. It sounds so great when fans say they got hundreds of free autographs through the mail. Oh really?

And by the way, autopens can have general inscriptions like "Best Wishes, So and So". That's why some collectors like added personalizations of their own names as a kind of proof, although I don't know how authentic that makes it. Then you have a lot of autographs that say "To Peter", but at least A Peter is happy.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

I disagree with what was said above about how most fans would not care whether the sig they got was autopen or not. It is autopens and ghost signers that have prevented me from ever considering doing TTM autographs. I have more respect for simply not signing than autopens. At least it is honest.

I would love to see some autopen examples next to real sigs. Not sure if I would beable to tell. It wouldn't help with ghost signers though.

quote:

Originally posted by BGH:
I disagree with what was said above about how most fans would not care whether the sig they got was autopen or not. It is autopens and ghost signers that have prevented me from ever considering doing TTM autographs. I have more respect for simply not signing than autopens. At least it is honest.

I would love to see some autopen examples next to real sigs. Not sure if I would beable to tell. It wouldn't help with ghost signers though.

This is an old, short thread I started long ago, but every poster said that autopens are the equal of fake signatures, so I'm not sure who you are disagreeing with on that end. Perhaps Mr. Blue for thinking collectors wouldn't notice. Many may not, but collectors would certainly care if they knew they got an autopenned signature when they thought they were getting a genuine hand signed autograph. They would care for the price alone.

As for the comparison of autopens to real signatures, in my experience the autopens generally look a whole lot better. They are usually the "money signature" rather than the quick, sloppy autograph that a celebrity will really give to a fan.

And the only way to truly confirm an autopen is by comparing it to another one. The signature will be exactly the same in all respects, height, slant etc., although the placement may differ. Even those rare signers that give consistent, legible autographs can't produce two autographs precisely the same way in free hand.

I have heard about the dot theory, but I personally don't subscribe to it. I have seen genuine signatures that had a resting point, or dot at the end if you will. That alone is not a red flag to me. However I have had bad experiences with autographs in silver ink, so those I do look at carefully. Just MHO.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

According to mrblueofnyc:

quote:

I dont think most fans really care or would ever know the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by BGH:
According to mrblueofnyc:

quote:

I dont think most fans really care or would ever know the difference.

Yes I saw that and mentioned it. But Mr. Blue actually runs 258 Authentics and he knows what would happen if he ever sold items not personally signed. So I'm not quite sure he meant it the way it sounded.

I think when he talks about fans he is not talking about serious autograph or card collectors but the normal fan in the street.

Autograph collectors on this forum would definatly care but I agree that most would not be able to tell the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:
I think when he talks about fans he is not talking about serious autograph or card collectors but the normal fan in the street.

Autograph collectors on this forum would definatly care but I agree that most would not be able to tell the difference.

Yeah I think you got it wolfie. He did use the word "fan". It's those fans that keep buying cheap autographs off eBay when any collector would say "how can they possibly believe that they are real?"