I am really enjoying this discussion because we are actually getting an exchange of ideas about an important hobby topic without anybody being right or wrong. I do find it interesting that the guys who are basically in the business seem for the most part pretty positive on premium packs and the collectors are expressing more reservations. As Ed has said, give it a chance, and I would agree with that because some of the products that we are talking about like Spartacus and The Tudors haven't come out yet. Right now we are only speculating about what collectors will do and what happens when the cards hit eBay.

I would say this about base cards though, just because they don't have much monetary value, it doesn't mean that the majority of non-sport collectors want only a couple of chase cards and premium hits per purchase. We tend to talk on the forum as though everybody is a card expert and part-time seller when that's just not true. Most collectors do it because they have fun collecting cards and they don't sell their collections until they lose interest altogether or need some money.

If they have $50 to spend and a choice between a box with 24 packs and 2 hits or a premium pack with 2 hits and a couple of chase cards, all things being equal I think most will take the box. If card manufacturers use the premium pack concept on the right titles it may prove quite successful. If they think its a replacement strategy or overuse it than it will harm the hobby. Time will tell.

I'm adding to this post because I just read on the Lost Archives thread that RA is releasing it as a premium pack only product. Now Lost has ended, but it was a popular license with many collecting fans and has always warranted a full card release before. This is not a marginal title in my opinion. Perhaps the time is coming faster than expected.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

I like the SadLittles 50 card Base Set and Sketch format. I missed out on the first releases and was pleased to pick up the base sets for around $5.00 each. I did breakdown and purchased the FEMFORCE set with a sketch. It came today and this the sketch I got can be seen here: http://nonsportupdate.infopop....4605353/m/5097012895 but these ultra premium packs with a few cards for $50.00 or more are not for me.

Sooooo..
In all due respect...could I Please get a reply from Harris...is there any plans to include the Archies sketch card series in the next non sport card magazine?

quote:

Originally posted by Ribeyespud:
Sooooo..
In all due respect...could I Please get a reply from Harris...is there any plans to include the Archies sketch card series in the next non sport card magazine?

Were there any base cards in this series? If not then what information would you anticipate NSU listing?

quote:

Originally posted by Nicnac:

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:
If you purchase a case and sell your extra base sets - say 15 at $4 and take off the time you have spent collating these - is that a good deal?

I remember a time when base sets were worth more...

I never liked manufacturers creating scare chase cards by simply over-printing base cards in gold, silver, red etc. foil BUT if that were to become the standard for traditional boxes of cards then it would cut down dramatically on the number of base sets and might increase the revenue per box/case for dealers who put together sets. Not being a dealer I don't know this to be true. What say you?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill DeFranzo:
I never liked manufacturers creating scare chase cards by simply over-printing base cards in gold, silver, red etc. foil

Well those are the colours I specifically used on the Sherlock chase and promo cards (Bronze rather than gold but most people think it was gold so same thing really) so let me field that for a moment.

We did that for two reasons, some people like to chase hard to find cards, and limiting something to 30 makes it a challenge, (this is very common on sports cards). Other people like to get just one example of a card so by using the same card with a simple foil enhancement we offer the regular collector an easier and much less expensive option to collect the same cards (at least the same fronts). This is done in an effort to appease both types of collectors. I am sure if we made a different card and limited it to just 30 others would say how it's impossible to collect and would be unhappy about that.

Often when putting a product together we know in advance that a group of people will not like what we have done, and that's the same for all manufacturers, but it's simply impossible to please everyone. The parallel set, and variants have been around for a long time, it's effective and appeal's to a wider audience. We are doing a lot more of it including random signed base cards and numbered/cut variants in upcoming sets because of this. It makes a more saleable product for dealers simply because it offers more variety which logically will appeal to more people.

The only way to increase the base set value is to make sure demand outstrips supply, and that's going to be done by limiting print runs, shaking up collation and adding variation to basic cards. All of these options are better than short printing 1 or 2 cards, that's something that drives my nuts. Having a stack of card 39 and 41 and never finishing a set? Thats just a lousy way to go.

Really though the whole point is to make the cards collectable, which is not the same thing as easy. At some point that fact was lost and basic sets became next to worthless. I think some of that will change over time as print runs drop. And they will drop because the numbers produced now are simply unsustainable, hence RH's moves into the Premium Pack market.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sci-FiPlanet,

I really hope I don't come off as being argumentative, I'm just very passionate about the set and it comes out in my postings. Thanks for understanding, and for Bill & Harris doing what you can to include all sketch card sets in the guide. How about something like this:

Archies,March of Dimes Sketch Card Series
(5finity 2009)
2,199 individually numbered sketch card packs.
Dante Autograph Sketch....(32)
Wells Autograph Sketch....(10)
Gorelick Autograph Sketch...(?)
Mirage Studios artists....
Hot Pack sketch...(75)
Rough sketch...low price to high
Typical sketch...low price to high
Hot Artist sketch...Hack, shultz,(examples)
Original Art Redemption Card (50)...

Just an idea, and thanks for asking for opinions and if you think about it the sketches ARE the base set....still hoping
Can you please tell me what you think of this kind of layout Bill & Harris?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill DeFranzo:
Were there any base cards in this series?

Seriously, this again? Is the snark really necessary?

Or did you really forget about this four page thread that you posted heavily in regarding this very topic:

http://nonsportupdate.infopop....5353/m/479109754/p/1

That's what I'm sayin'...can I get a witness?!? I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like this is a rerun.

I actually agree with the statement Jon made on pricing. I still view the 26 card set as the base set but I understand the viewpoint about 3 chase sets.

quote:

Originally posted by william291077:
I actually agree with the statement Jon made on pricing. I still view the 26 card set as the base set but I understand the viewpoint about 3 chase sets.

Not saying you're wrong, deciding how to collect is one of the nice things about this hobby.

But, the episode cards are numbered to 250 while the two 9 card sets are numbered to 350. By definition the base set is more plentiful than chase sets. So the 26 card set is chase, IMHO. But, your mileage may vary.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill DeFranzo:
Were there any base cards in this series?

Seriously, this again? Is the snark really necessary?

Or did you really forget about this four page thread that you posted heavily in regarding this very topic:

http://nonsportupdate.infopop....5353/m/479109754/p/1

I believe that my comments at that time were considered "ludicrous"? Why would one expect any more from me now?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill DeFranzo:
I believe that my comments at that time were considered "ludicrous"? Why would one expect any more from me now?

I dunno. . .

In the last several weeks there have been threads to get people to donate to save Card Talk, threads to get Card Talkers to write to advertisers to encourage them to advertise in NSU.

I would think that in this sort of climate representatives of NSU would avoid being snarky to the people who value what the magazine is and what the magazine publishes.

When I wrote for NSU we asked for feedback constantly, and almost never got any -- here you have folks telling you what they want to see and instead of giving them any sort of feedback or an actual response they get dismissed as if their opinions have no merit.

If you sincerely don't see the value in putting information about these sets in the price guide then you are very out of touch with a large part of the hobby.

Regardless, if you continue to dismiss people's opinions they will eventually walk away.

Jon

Funny - we had a very good discussion/debate on the premium pack articles but it has turned nasty over "some" peoples views on the Archies sketch card "in or out of price guide" debate. There is already a thread on that, which 6 people contributed to, so re-open that discussion there rather than hi-jack this thread

quote:

Originally posted by Ribeyespud:
I really hope I don't come off as being argumentative, I'm just very passionate about the set...:

Archies,March of Dimes Sketch Card Series
(5finity 2009)
2,199 individually numbered sketch card packs.
Dante Autograph Sketch....(32)
Wells Autograph Sketch....(10)
Gorelick Autograph Sketch...(?)
Mirage Studios artists....
Hot Pack sketch...(75)
Rough sketch...low price to high
Typical sketch...low price to high
Hot Artist sketch...Hack, shultz,(examples)
Original Art Redemption Card (50)...

Just an idea, and thanks for asking for opinions and if you think about it the sketches ARE the base set....still hoping
Can you please tell me what you think of this kind of layout Bill & Harris?

I feel the same way about a different series of sketch cards. For that series I want (and have) access to a complete list of artists. I want to know how many sketches were done by each artist (I don't know). I also want some pricing information for each artist (I know via my own purchases).

I like your layout. Did you notice our latest experiment in the Guide regarding the pricing of sketch cards? Averages are relatively meaningless for sketches without knowing something about the standard deviation and the more you know about it the less you would rely on the average for your next purchase. (we manage the deviation, internally, when there are multiple purchases of the same item). The new approach is still less than optimum but it does give some indication as to whether a series is either top heavy with desirable sketches or a bottom feeder?

I've not answering your basic question yet. I must admit, the series is setup much differently than I initially perceived.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
. . . reducing the printing costs by producing fewer base cards in the box won't significantly decrease the price of a box. Printing isn't a big cost especially when you're just talking about under 100 extra cards in a box.

I happened to be on Versicolor's site looking at info about their upcoming site and checked out printing prices. . . Looks like it's about $.025 per card (two and a half cents) for standard trading cards. . . I'm guessing if you had a big contract you could probably get 'em a bit cheaper. . . but even at that rate if you reduced the number of cards in a box by 100, it's only about $2.50 cost reduction.

Jon

Time to spin this bad boy back on topic - after I swore I wouldn't join in.
All of my card purchases have been on a subject I've really enjoyed, so when I buy, I buy for me - not to flip.
I believe there will always be a need for the overproduced, "cheap" sets/packs. My collecting days started with the 45 cent packs of Batman Series 1/2 and Desert Storm. Even though they aren't worth much to resell, they are very valuable to me.
I've never purchased a Premium Pack of any release, though that will change if Breygent puts out The Tudors in that format. I've heard it could go either way. I'm more than willing to give the packs a shot, especially if they are the only way to get a license printed.
I suppose the point I'm trying in vain to make it that: if I like the subject, I'll buy it regardless of the format released and be happy with it.
Sorry if any of that is incoherent. I've retyped this thing about 20 times and I'm splitting my attention between this and work

quote:

Originally posted by Sci-FiPlanet:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill DeFranzo:
I never liked manufacturers creating scarce chase cards by simply over-printing base cards in gold, silver, red etc. foil

Well those are the colours I specifically used on the Sherlock chase and promo cards (Bronze rather than gold but most people think it was gold so same thing really) so let me field that for a moment.

Actually, I wasn't thinking about any series in particular. Gold, silver and red appear to be the most common, followed by blue and green (Go Harry Potter Promos!). My only point was that if including foil parallels helps to cut back on the number of base sets then it could be a good thing for the hobby even though I am not too wild about them. I think that your post was right on!

I did chase the Mars Attacks first day parallels because they seemed to serve an interesting purpose.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Bill on the layout for the sketch card sets and for getting back to me. Sorry gang if I got to far off topic

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
. . . reducing the printing costs by producing fewer base cards in the box won't significantly decrease the price of a box. Printing isn't a big cost especially when you're just talking about under 100 extra cards in a box.

I happened to be on Versicolor's site looking at info about their upcoming site and checked out printing prices. . . Looks like it's about $.025 per card (two and a half cents) for standard trading cards. . . I'm guessing if you had a big contract you could probably get 'em a bit cheaper. . . but even at that rate if you reduced the number of cards in a box by 100, it's only about $2.50 cost reduction.

Jon

I just want to point something out: Not all printing is the same. For a start are you talking about Laser or plate printing? We use plate printing on a silk woven 50% recycled board, that's a lot more expensive than a laser print on a lower cost card. (I am not for a moment saying that's what Versicolor is doing because I have no idea).

If we put an extra 100 cards in a box I can assure you it would cost more than $2.50 just in printing and cutting. Of course that's not taking into account design and layout times, along with increased packaging times and large increases in shipping costs (this is a big issue), all of which costs more money. Cutting back on basic sets is very very cost effective. It's one of the reasons company's like 5Finity don't produce them at all.