quote:

I don't remember any guarentee of a Bob Layton sketch in these cases!!! With a couple of hundred artists on this set you don't know who you're going to get. Best thing to do is look through the case breaks on here and on Scoundrel and that'll give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

I paid $530 for my case inclusive of delivery to the UK (they were a lot cheaper when they first came out) and I had 12 costumes, 3 autos and 23 sketches - I was shorted 1 sketch. I had some fantastic sketches but the prices just plummeted on ebay due to the fact that there were around 1000 listed. Don't expect to make a profit on your case then you won't be disappointed. Any you'd be very, very lucky if you got a Layton sketch, I don't think I've seen any in any recent case breaks posted.

Didn't one of the Rittenhouse sets have a Bob Layton case incentive sketch, or perhaps multi case incentive? Maybe that's what Jonathan is thinking..

quote:

Originally posted by JonathanJ:
Yes Raven. I'm w you all the way. But, for me, this purchase was to collect as many sketch cards as possible. (buying them each, one by one on eBay was going to kill me)That said, I bought this case of hobby boxes thinking that I was guarenteed 24 sketches, at least one auto card and one bob Layton sketch. (and since it was nearly 670 with shipping I thought to move some if it)

My hope was to perhaps get a few great sketches and sell just enough of the other stuff to roll back SOME of my expense.

Like. If I sold the bob Layton card, the auto's and the costume cards ... Maybe I can shave off close to 300 of the nearly 700 I paid.

But then I just read a post by Haljordonfan that notes a case without a Bob sketch! I am indeed. Having second thoughts.BUT ... I didn't order this case to make profits.

If the seller of your case told you that there was one Layton sketch per box, you were sold a bill of goods. The Bob Layton sketches were not anywhere close to 1 per case.

I know you're a bit new to this, but it pays to find sites like this and Scoundrel to see what other people are getting if you're unsure what to expect. Information is one of the most important tools you have in this hobby.

And yes, Rittenhouse has had Bob Layton sketches before, but they were all multi case incentives.

Ed

Info is that Bob Layton did 100 cards. If they were all approved\inserted, if there were 500 cases, then the odds are 1 in 5 cases. Factor into that retail boxes and gravity feed boxes, and the odds just get longer. Much better to buy
one from a dealer at those odds.

I pulled a George Davis sketch from a gravity feed box at Target. I don't know how many he did but it's a pretty nice sketch.

Well guyz,

I got so jazzed bout the 2 boxes I purchased that I went out and bought a case.

(as some of you may already know)

And, it does arrive tomorrow. I'm going to be a like a little crack head going through it looking for those little sketches. Hopefully I'll get a M Rourke Auto to sell. Or maybe a more valued costume card. No matter what ... I'm sure that I'll break it down in here for you all to laugh at or with me. Or who knows ... perhaps weep

quote:

Originally posted by cardaddict:
I pulled a George Davis sketch from a gravity feed box at Target. I don't know how many he did but it's a pretty nice sketch.

Hey Cardaddict ... how manypacks did you have to buy from that drop box to get that 1 sketch? Cause, I bought like a zillion from a Target drop Box and ... nada!

quote:

Originally posted by JonathanJ:

quote:

Originally posted by cardaddict:
I pulled a George Davis sketch from a gravity feed box at Target. I don't know how many he did but it's a pretty nice sketch.

Hey Cardaddict ... how manypacks did you have to buy from that drop box to get that 1 sketch? Cause, I bought like a zillion from a Target drop Box and ... nada!

The retail sketches are just one per gravity box (or 1 per 48 packs), and remember the pack-searchers were all over those. Worse, the gravity feed boxes aren't factory sealed in shrinkwrap, even directly out of a fresh case, so even if you count all of the packs in a Gravity feed box to make sure all 48 packs are still in it (highly recommended before making ANY retail packs purchase if your goal is one of the big "hits"), that doesn't necessarily mean the sketch and costume card packs haven't been pulled from the box and replaced with packs from a different box. Buyer beware all retail packs, but especially Iron Man and the new Star Wars 3D widevision.

Hobby boxes are really the only way to go on these if you're in it for sketches, especially since both can still be purchased for close to the original price, even if you have to send away for them, having no local shops that carry them. In the case of Iron Man, it an even more glaring no brainer as the average 48 hobby packs of Iron Man will hold FOUR sketches along with a good chance at an autograph, while the same number of retail packs will hold only one sketch, and virtually no chance of an autograph (or sketch either, if a pack searcher's been around).

I think I bought 10 packs my first visit, 10 the 2nd visit and then 6 my third visit. I pulled the sketch on the third visit, so you could say it cost me $52. That's probably more then it's worth, but I don't care. I love opening packs.

quote:

The retail sketches are just one per gravity box (or 1 per 48 packs), and remember the pack-searchers were all over those. Worse, the gravity feed boxes aren't factory sealed in shrinkwrap, even directly out of a fresh case, so even if you count all of the packs in a Gravity feed box to make sure all 48 packs are still in it (highly recommended before making ANY retail packs purchase if your goal is one of the big "hits"), that doesn't necessarily mean the sketch and costume card packs haven't been pulled from the box and replaced with packs from a different box. Buyer beware all retail packs, but especially Iron Man and the new Star Wars 3D widevision.

I think you need to stop crying that the sky is falling, does some pack searching occur, yes, but not like you are making it out to be. I have brought plenty of retail packs and have pulled many "big" hits, so scaring people off stating that if a pack or two is missing is just ridiculous. I agree everyone needs to be aware of such happenings, but you make it seem that every pack is searched, and that's just not true.

Johnathan,


It's not a Layton or Rourke that you want. You WANT to pull a Tony Perna as that one card will pay for nearly your entire case if the right buyer is found.

The Rourke is $70 on Ebay and the Cheadle is $50 or so.

quote:

Originally posted by Batman:

quote:

The retail sketches are just one per gravity box (or 1 per 48 packs), and remember the pack-searchers were all over those. Worse, the gravity feed boxes aren't factory sealed in shrinkwrap, even directly out of a fresh case, so even if you count all of the packs in a Gravity feed box to make sure all 48 packs are still in it (highly recommended before making ANY retail packs purchase if your goal is one of the big "hits"), that doesn't necessarily mean the sketch and costume card packs haven't been pulled from the box and replaced with packs from a different box. Buyer beware all retail packs, but especially Iron Man and the new Star Wars 3D widevision.

I think you need to stop crying that the sky is falling, does some pack searching occur, yes, but not like you are making it out to be. I have brought plenty of retail packs and have pulled many "big" hits, so scaring people off stating that if a pack or two is missing is just ridiculous. I agree everyone needs to be aware of such happenings, but you make it seem that every pack is searched, and that's just not true.

Ditto

quote:

Originally posted by Batman:

quote:

The retail sketches are just one per gravity box (or 1 per 48 packs), and remember the pack-searchers were all over those. Worse, the gravity feed boxes aren't factory sealed in shrinkwrap, even directly out of a fresh case, so even if you count all of the packs in a Gravity feed box to make sure all 48 packs are still in it (highly recommended before making ANY retail packs purchase if your goal is one of the big "hits"), that doesn't necessarily mean the sketch and costume card packs haven't been pulled from the box and replaced with packs from a different box. Buyer beware all retail packs, but especially Iron Man and the new Star Wars 3D widevision.

I think you need to stop crying that the sky is falling, does some pack searching occur, yes, but not like you are making it out to be. I have brought plenty of retail packs and have pulled many "big" hits, so scaring people off stating that if a pack or two is missing is just ridiculous. I agree everyone needs to be aware of such happenings, but you make it seem that every pack is searched, and that's just not true.

I think it must depend on your area, I live in the Chicago Suburbs, and the packs are searched here constantly. Now I have no idea how successful people are with their searching, but if you know what to look for you can tell if packs are searched, and here -- literally 100% of the time I look at packs at places like Target they have been searched.

When I lived in Wisconsin the packs were rarely searched.

I really wish manufacturers would release more blaster boxes.

I agree, boxes or blister packs would solve the problem. I would think it would help overall sales as then you would know that searching is not a problem. It happens, but not as much as people think. I would hate to think people won't buy packs because of fear of searching, but I understand the concern.

quote:

Originally posted by Batman:

quote:

The retail sketches are just one per gravity box (or 1 per 48 packs), and remember the pack-searchers were all over those. Worse, the gravity feed boxes aren't factory sealed in shrinkwrap, even directly out of a fresh case, so even if you count all of the packs in a Gravity feed box to make sure all 48 packs are still in it (highly recommended before making ANY retail packs purchase if your goal is one of the big "hits"), that doesn't necessarily mean the sketch and costume card packs haven't been pulled from the box and replaced with packs from a different box. Buyer beware all retail packs, but especially Iron Man and the new Star Wars 3D widevision.

I think you need to stop crying that the sky is falling, does some pack searching occur, yes, but not like you are making it out to be. I have brought plenty of retail packs and have pulled many "big" hits, so scaring people off stating that if a pack or two is missing is just ridiculous. I agree everyone needs to be aware of such happenings, but you make it seem that every pack is searched, and that's just not true.

I'm not sure ridicule is warranted. No one said the sky is falling, and I would not waste tears on so trifling a matter.

I am on record elsewhere on this board stating that from the store's point of view, pack searching is not necessarily a bad thing since it does result in the sales of packs that may ultimately go unsold otherwise. Further, there is no shortage of buyers for Hot Packs once they have been found and listed for sale. I would not search packs, or purchase them from those who have, but that's up to each collector to decide how they feel about it.

Even so, pack searching IS widespread, and to deny it is wishful thinking. You may be fortunate to live near a retail store or two that has somehow escaped those who make a trade of it, and good for you. I envy you in that regard, as I am not so lucky. But the more potential there is for fast cash to be made, the more likely it is happening and will continue to happen.

I don't wish to dissuade anyone from purchasing cards. Our hobby needs all the collectors it can get. I am glad to hear of your luck with retail packs from opened boxes that are missing packs, Batman, and I hope it continues. However, new card collectors absolutely should be warned of what does go on, and not in a half-hearted way, as they are the ones most likely to be unaware of what many of us have found out the hard way, if not seen with our own eyes: the vast majority of retail packs, sports and non-sports alike, are picked through, have been for years (especially sports cards), and the trend is on the upswing.

While your own anecdotal experiences make you think this is not the case, I just simply disagree with you. I don't wish to scare any collector, but rather arm them with useful information. Does my truth, different than yours, now require me to ask you to stop making statements I believe to be incorrect? Nope.

For those who would care to, do a search on Ebay for Iron Man hot packs in particular. You'll find 200 were very recently sold with 40 more currently listed, and this has been going on since the day the cards hit the shelves. Where might that steady stream be coming from?

As far as the new Empire 3D goes, does anyone think people are buying 3 boxes of cards at $80 each to find the one pack with a sketch (according to the odds) and then selling that single pack for around the price of one box? Hundreds, if not thousands, of Hot Packs were also sold from the retail versions of Star Wars Galaxy 4 and 5, as well, and so it goes.

Buyer beware retail packs, and certainly if your sole interest in purchasing them is for the high end cards they may hold. I stand by that, as it is good advice in general, but especially in this case. That is all I said, with reasoning drawn solely from years of empirical evidence, and not my own opinion, which I understand to be necessarily limited by my own personal experience.

As I relayed my findings in this "cherry picking" matter to anyone who cared to listen, I can assure you that my eyes were as free of tears as my words were of ulterior motives, by which I mean to tell you that there's no need to read anything into this post, either.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chesspieceface,

Go back and read your posts, you imply that all retail packs are searched, stay away from them. That's simply not true, and your remarks could cause collectors to avoid purchasing those types of packs.

Ive been to pleanty of targets in my area, both ohio and michigan...ive never found one that was not totally searched for inserts on nearly every product. Whats more, ive seen em doing it , playing with each pack and having a stack. If you talk to them, they freely admit what they are doing usually. its the exception not the rule, when you find a box that has not been felt up and searched top to bottum for autographs and costume/jersey cards and so on, at least it has been for the 10 years or so ive known it to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Batman:
Go back and read your posts, you imply that all retail packs are searched, stay away from them. That's simply not true, and your remarks could cause collectors to avoid purchasing those types of packs.

No, I did not mean one should avoid retail packs at all costs, just to be very careful, if the big "hits" are your primary motivation for purchasing them. I just bought some Empire 3D retail packs myself and posted them in the breakdowns the other day.

I'm also not into implying things. If I have something to say, I will simply say it, and not rely on others to try and suss out my meaning when I can just tell you directly what it is.

Anyway, no offense intended, Batman, and I hope none was taken. I've always enjoyed reading your posts, and I'm certainly not trying to get a rise out of you.

My comments in this instance were mostly directed at JonathanJ, a new collector seeking advice specifically on his best bet for acquiring sketches. With Iron Man 2, certainly hobby boxes are the best way to go, even if there was absolutely no pack searching going on at all. The odds are just far better for his purposes with the hobby boxes. There are 4 sketches in 48 hobby packs, but just 1 sketch in 48 retail packs. I recommended buying a hobby box, and was glad when he reported he bought two of them, and sure enough pulled 4 sketches.
I bought a whole case of retail IM2 and only got 6 sketches. How could I possibly recommend even completely unsearched IM2 retail packs to him, based on the fact that he wanted to acquire as many sketches as possible?

So the main issue here wasn't even the pack searchers. I just took the opportunity to weigh in on the matter, and in a manner that I feel was fact based and related in a non-dramatic way. If you feel I've exaggerated, or worse, am lying for whatever reason, well, what can I pssibly tell you that would change your mind? I stand by every comment I've made.

Let me just finish with this positive spin on retail packs:

Before the internet was in widespread use, I especially loved going to Target, Longs Drug Store, Kmart, KayBee Toys, Play Co Toys, various liquor stores, and on and on because I knew I could get cards at those places when my local hobby shops had run out (and even if they hadn't). The fact that some of the insert cards in those packs ended up being exclusive to retail stores and are now quite valuable is just icing on the cake. My point is, while most of those stores are gone now, I'm glad that at least Target and Walmart still have cards, and I hope they continue to.

There are certainly going to be some people who purchase Retail packs without consideration of whether or not there is a sketch or autograph in them, who might not even know such things exist, so any place that sells cards can only be a good thing for the larger hobby. Beyond that, I don't believe EVERY pack has been searched, just an awful lot of them.

However, if somebody asks me specifically what is the best way to acquire sketches and autographs from sealed packs, it is hobby boxes all the way. Thanks to the internet, they are now available to everyone, even if you have no local card shop, and certainly to anyone who inquires about it in this forum, as clearly, they have the internet access needed to attain them.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chesspieceface,

I directly purchased all 12 of the above cards for about $140 in various tranactions with a decent part of that being shipping costs. It would've been a little less than that even, but I may have overpaid for the War Machine by Steacy, as it was a "buy-it-now" from right after the set's release, I didn't know how affordable these would end up being, and mostly because I idn't want to miss it. Steacy is one of the best artists in this set, and certainly among the most accomplished. It is simply amazing to me his sketches can be had for $10 or less, but I'll bet for all their detail and craftsmanship, he probably spent 5 minutes or less on each one, he's a modern master.

MY OWN RETAIL CASE BREAKDOWN, continued:
As my breakdown from earlier in the thread shows, I only found 6 sketches in that, and no autographs (which is a big part of why I bought them, being an autograph collector). I did end up making 12 sets of the base cards, 2-3 complete insert sets, and a set of the 11 costume cards (no armor cards). If I can get $200 (wishful thinking, most likely) for the 2 color sketches and the costume set (I don't collect costume cards), that would mean I basically paid about $150 for those base and insert sets plus the 4 decent sketches I'd have left (none as nice as the ones I bought, and I already traded the best of those from the retail case, the Namor by Mike Miller, for a cool Captain America by Dapper Dan from Marvel Masterpieces Set 2).

So, in the end, I really wish I'd have gotten a case of the hobby version of this product at the very start, but with the slapdash way Masterpieces 3 was so clumsily put together, and Upper Deck's current problems, I didn't want to risk it. Oops!

Anyway, for what I spent on the retail case (which was still a pretty good bargain, all things considered), I could literally have bought about 30+ quality sketches for the same money. Oh well, I'm glad to have the sketches I bought. I may even pick up a few more.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chesspieceface,

That's a great Dr. Strange

Finally got around to scanning my sketch cards! These are all from retail packs. Las Vegas is littered with Wal-Marts Best Buys and Targets, and the 5 packs here, 10 packs there theory has paid off I think. I'm happy with the pulls, ESPECIALLY the David Mack as he's a favorite artist of mine!








I've also pulled 9 costume cards (only 1 duplicate out of those too).