A Lion King SB1 in very poor condition(in my humble opinion)just sold on Ebay for $90.00!. I could be wrong, but it seems that prices for scarcer/rarer promo cards at starting to rise... Any thoughts?

The Lion King Series 2 P2 promos are also tough to find. I believe there are 5 or 6 diff ones, all numbered P2

Years ago, I bought one P2 that wasn't in the greatest of shape, and I still paid $ 40 for it

Promoking,

It's certainly another good sign for the hobby. I would assume that's a record price for a less-than-near-mint promo. It's also good to see that there are still those who aren't just hunting the highest quality cards. They can see a beat-up example of a rarity as worth having.

Jess

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
A Lion King SB1 in very poor condition(in my humble opinion)just sold on Ebay for $90.00!. I could be wrong, but it seems that prices for scarcer/rarer promo cards at starting to rise... Any thoughts?

This card was nowhere close to near mint. It had a dog ear corner and the edges were very frayed.

Speaking not just of promos, but for trading cards in general, condition means more to some people than others. Assuming that the buyer was aware of the corner and edges, maybe he/she wanted the card as a place holder. While $90 is not cheap, it's not terribly expensive either. If it is a rare card and the person has been looking for it or needs it for a master, they may take a poorer copy with the thought that they will upgrade later on. If a better one never comes along, at least they have this one.

For some reason I have noticed, and others have commented on this too, that non-sport card collectors are not into the whole grading business as much as sports card collectors. Even on the forum, you rarely hear any talk of card condition or of sending cards out to grading services. Maybe it's just that fewer non-sport collectors are interested in those older vintage cards where reductions are often caused by lesser condition issues.

Personally I take the view that having the card in "whatever" condition is far better than not having the card at all. Some of the cards I have been collecting for many years were issued in the late 1940's to early 1950's stapled together so finding a "mint" card without "pin" holes is extremely rare. To make collecting even more interesting each set featured one card that was printed in very short numbers (this was part of a prize scheme aimed at young collectors).

I just went looking for this auction expecting to find a truly battered card - but I don't think the condition is bad at all!

From the front, the lower left corner is the worst but I don't think is terribly noticeable and not enough to detract much overall.
As for what I would call the chipping that is mainly on the back... well you can find many brand new modern cards that display similar 'defects' due to paper stock peeling/the way the card has been cut.

Interesting comment X.

I guess beauty and condition are both in the eye of the beholder. Although I have never had a card professionally graded, I have learned enough about the criteria used to decipher when a card is below fine condition. This one clearly is and I was impressed that a collector would be willing to dish out almost a hundred bucks for it. I'm personally very happy for the buyer who obviously really wanted an SB1.
However, condition is extremely important to me both as a buyer and seller of mostly promo cards. I try to only deal with cards that don't have any surface scratches, dog ears or fraying. Centering is the least important criterion I pay attention too. The reason I opened this thread is because the Lion King SB1 promo card had been voted the rarest promo card in existence in a prior thread on this board a few years ago and I was pleased its status had ben vindicated by the fact that although many promos regularly sell for $1.00 to $3.00 in MINT condition, this particular card fetched 30 to 90 times that price in its current condition.

I would say that while $90 is not a lot in the realm of rare autograph cards from the more popular franchises, it is a lot to pay for a promo - even a rare one. But yes, someone seeking to finish that Lion Kong set might be willing to stretch for that SB1 even in lesser condition. A hardcore promo or Disney card collector might spring for it too.

Yeah, non-sport collectors are not generally interested in having their cards graded. I think part of it is having a graded card locked into a plastic case that won't fit right in a binder, taking up more space in any case. However, I think most collectors check for the best card among base duplicates when building their set. They might let a couple of rough-corners slide if upgrades are a hassle but they definitely want their chase cards approximately NM. I've also noticed that some vintage card collectors (60's and 70's) are assembling high-grade sets, shooting for approximately NM cards.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Speaking not just of promos, but for trading cards in general, condition means more to some people than others. Assuming that the buyer was aware of the corner and edges, maybe he/she wanted the card as a place holder. While $90 is not cheap, it's not terribly expensive either. If it is a rare card and the person has been looking for it or needs it for a master, they may take a poorer copy with the thought that they will upgrade later on. If a better one never comes along, at least they have this one.

For some reason I have noticed, and others have commented on this too, that non-sport card collectors are not into the whole grading business as much as sports card collectors. Even on the forum, you rarely hear any talk of card condition or of sending cards out to grading services. Maybe it's just that fewer non-sport collectors are interested in those older vintage cards where reductions are often caused by lesser condition issues.

Right, and that is the attitude to take for older cards or you'll have a very small collection. For newer cards (since the 80's), the print runs are so high you might be willing to hold out for a card in better condition before you mark it off the checklist. However, I have also bought some beat-up 90's cards when I haven't seen them before especially if they're oddball promos/product premiums.

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
Personally I take the view that having the card in "whatever" condition is far better than not having the card at all. Some of the cards I have been collecting for many years were issued in the late 1940's to early 1950's stapled together so finding a "mint" card without "pin" holes is extremely rare. To make collecting even more interesting each set featured one card that was printed in very short numbers (this was part of a prize scheme aimed at young collectors).

quote:

Originally posted by promoking:
I guess beauty and condition are both in the eye of the beholder. Although I have never had a card professionally graded, I have learned enough about the criteria used to decipher when a card is below fine condition.

I would agree, if by below fine you would grade a 7. I think a favorable reviewer might go as high as 7.5 and a harsher one might go as low as 6.5. The misleading part is the Tattered Lion King subject line. It is not tattered, it's just not in high grade condition. Now here's the tricky part, a 7 might be a very desirable grade for this particular card, which would make it OK for someone to pay higher than you might suppose they should.

I don't know this card. I don't know if by rare promo you mean 50 copies of 250 copies. Most importantly, I don't know what other copies normally look like. Some cards are condition sensitive. It might be that all or most of them have a specific defect that turns up in time. For example cards with black borders, produced in certain years, are especially prone to edge chipping. Others may be all off-centered. Grading services do not typically mark on a curve, all defects result in deductions. However what happens with such cards is that they simply don't grade any high. You may not ever have a 10. There may only be a handful of 9s. So what I'm saying is that a 7 for this particular promo, might be in reality higher than a normal 7 for another card that is not condition sensitive.

What I did like when I pulled up the listing was that the seller willingly disclosed the card condition. There are even several pictures of the back of the card with the edge chipping. I think that's great. Whoever bought it knew it's condition and taken as a whole, assuming no other damage is on the card, the card does not look bad. A 7 doesn't really have to look bad, vintage cards can grade 4 and 5 and still be viable because they are vintage.

With modern cards everyone wants at least a 9 or it won't sell. I have seen people break the slabs when a 8.5 came back, which is kind of sad. For the record, I don't believe in grading any card unless there is a question of authenticity or it is an extremely expensive card. I do not buy slabbed cards myself. I prefer autograph cards and I am more apt to worry about the quality of the signature than a soft corner.

http://s261.photobucket.com/us....jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
here are some scans of the card:

http://s261.photobucket.com/us....jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
http://s261.photobucket.com/us....jpg.html?sort=3&o=1<img src="http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii77/promoking01/sb1-2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo sb1-2.jpg"/>

This message has been edited. Last edited by: promoking,

I think the Speed Racer P3 and some of the 1993 Marvel Universe sample foils (Spider-Man 2099, Punisher 2099, etc) are much tougher to find than the SB1

I have only seen one Spider-Man and it sold for $100, and I have never seen the Punisher

I've also never seen the P3 on ebay, but I have one

It's hard to say which of those is rarer as each of us is going to have a different experience. I've seen a few of those Marvel sample red-foils (but not in a while) and have just one but have not seen the Speed Racer P3 (except scans). I think I've seen only two of the Lion King SB1. They might all occupy the same level of rarity now.

quote:

Originally posted by David R:
I think the Speed Racer P3 and some of the 1993 Marvel Universe sample foils (Spider-Man 2099, Punisher 2099, etc) are much tougher to find than the SB1

I have only seen one Spider-Man and it sold for $100, and I have never seen the Punisher

I've also never seen the P3 on ebay, but I have one

Jess, in my experience, on the 9 Marvel 1993 red sample foils, the villains are much more common.

A few turn up a year on ebay and sell for $10-20 and some don't get any bids at all. I am talking about Doom 2099, Vulture, Tiger Wylde, Fearmaster, Ravage, etc. The ones that no one cares about

However, I've only seen one Spider-Man 2099 show up on ebay over the years, and I have never seen the Punisher 2099, but presumably there is one, as the other 8 definitely exist--I have them