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Marvel Black Diamond (UD 2021)
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Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
posted
So this will be the new Marvel universe premium set, which was scheduled for a March/April 2021 release time frame, no actual date yet. I also can't find a SRP on the boxes either, but expect it to be a lot. Given the way old Marvel cards are surging, there will be lots of interest in this product and there are also lots of questions.

In the latest April/May issue of NSU that I just received, Marvel Black Diamond is on both the cover and in the featured article. I have been waiting to see it because other forums have already been making comments about the autograph list, which could be pretty impressive.

The main controversy right now seems to center on a photo in the NSU article of an autograph card that seems to be signed/stickered by the late Chadwick Boseman. It has his name and a picture of the costumed Black Panther. Boseman never signed for the prior Black Panther and no one is sure if its a mock up or an actual card, since there is no confirmation either way and he was not included on the auto preliminary checklist.

As with other UD products, this one is skip boxes on the hits. "Each box/pack will contain six cards, with one Diamond sketch or autograph per box, one Exquisite base card, and four other various types of cards, including base cards, patches and parallels".

The first 22 Marvel films will be featured, so there are going to be quite a few really short prints and expensive autographs for whoever feels lucky. Wink
 
Posts: 9440 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Someone at Blowout got a message from an Upper Deck social media account confirming the Chadwick Boseman auto was "an archive image" and is NOT in the set.
 
Posts: 59 | Location: The World | Registered: August 03, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Johnson:
Someone at Blowout got a message from an Upper Deck social media account confirming the Chadwick Boseman auto was "an archive image" and is NOT in the set.


Yeah I read that, but it makes no sense. What kind of an archive image do you have for a card that was never made? It's a complete card rendering with name, signature and even a 4/10 numbering. Then it finds it's way into the featured article on the product.

It's not like no one would notice. Boseman would have been the biggest autograph in the set and the picture was picked up right away. The article correctly never mentions it.

Whoever made the mistake, it seems like UD has been here before. Remember the ScarJo autograph "that never was" on the Avengers sell sheet. You would think they would have learned to keep mock cards, or archive images, or whatever they are calling them today, under wraps.

The product will sell out anyway, why risk losing customer confidence because no one is checking something any Marvel fan would have known is important?
 
Posts: 9440 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Dave and Adam has presell at $349 per box. Hits split between 3 card types so no autograph guarantee per box.

Don't think I ever saw the Boseman card referred to. I know this is supposed to be Mackie's first time signing. Elizabeth Debicki would be a nice card to get but I think I may already be priced out of this one.
 
Posts: 4191 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Scifi Cards
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quote:
Yeah I read that, but it makes no sense. What kind of an archive image do you have for a card that was never made? It's a complete card rendering with name, signature and even a 4/10 numbering. Then it finds it's way into the featured article on the product.

It's not like no one would notice. Boseman would have been the biggest autograph in the set and the picture was picked up right away. The article correctly never mentions it.


This set has likely been in production for a couple of years.

So it's likely Boseman was a potential signer at some point, obviously to the point of having designed a card.

They probably had a folder with all the images in it and some intern shared it with NSU.

I don't think there was ill intent on this one, but maybe a little incompetence to go around.

Ed

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Posts: 4931 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: March 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by Scifi Cards:

I don't think there was ill intent on this one, but maybe a little incompetence to go around.

Ed


Yeah, that's how I see it too. It just seems so unnecessary not to have caught the mistake before it goes public.

Same thing with RA's MacFarlane autopen release. Someone should have easily seen that before it got packed out.

These are the biggest cards in their respective sets. A Boseman autograph card would have gone for thousands of dollars. If the production steps cause gaps, where knowledgeable people don't get to look at all the steps, then the final approval process has to change. Card collectors of the title will pick up an error right away on any big card.

Now in the same NSU article there are pictures of autographed cards from Tom Holland and Benedict Cumberbatch. Neither the article or Beckett's preliminary checklist has either of them down, but the list is not complete. So are the cards made or were those "archived images" also? Should be OK, but can't be sure now. That's how mistakes breed doubt.
 
Posts: 9440 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Do you guys think this will be a popular set?

I don't get the interest in the diamond or gemstone aspect at all.

The card designs are nice.

The autograph list is fine -- better than fine -- it's a good autograph list, unfortunately a lot of these signers have appeared in many sets so there are few if any I'm all that excited to add to my collection.

Sketches are sketches, I personally don't value sketches out of a $350 box any more than I do out of another box -- the value of the sketch is based on the merits of the sketch itself -- artist, character, quality, etc.

It seems to be based on a sports card theme, which may drive sales.
 
Posts: 5169 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm not sure I would call it popular, because many non-sport card collectors are going to look at the price and how many cards you get for the price, and say forget about it. Wink

However Black Diamond is a well established line and it will be very limited. I'm sure it will sell through, if it hasn't already. Just about every signer will be a big autograph to have, especially now that Marvel cards have surged. I would hope that none of the sketches would be too shabby either. If I could, I would try it.

The reason I won't try it myself is not the price point. I have gone through this with UD before. When you have skipped hit boxes, you have just as good a chance of getting a sketch or relic as an autograph. Sometimes even less odds on the autograph card. That's what I want, whether its big money or a lesser common. To spend Black Diamond money and not get any autograph would bother the heck out of me. I can't take the chance of getting that aggravated.

But to answer the question, some of these cards should be very popular and there will be a lot of speculators in on it.
 
Posts: 9440 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
Do you guys think this will be a popular set?

It seems to be based on a sports card theme, which may drive sales.


I think you answered your question with your closing sentence. This is already pre-sold out everywhere. Collectors with money to burn are going to go crazy when this drops. Not only is vintage stuff going nuts, but this set is super shiny and will get a lot of attention.

All that said, I'm sure not buying it. Big Grin
 
Posts: 1445 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Dastick Jr.:
quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
Do you guys think this will be a popular set?

It seems to be based on a sports card theme, which may drive sales.


I think you answered your question with your closing sentence. This is already pre-sold out everywhere. Collectors with money to burn are going to go crazy when this drops. Not only is vintage stuff going nuts, but this set is super shiny and will get a lot of attention.

All that said, I'm sure not buying it. Big Grin


Perhaps, but outside of PMGs and Jambalayas I am not sure what other sports card designs are going to be popular in Marvel cards. Exquisite base cards are just OK -- exquisite autographs seem huge.

I just don't know if Black Diamond will carry much weight. . .

Being sold out at this point doesn't mean much because as Ed pointed out it's largely sold out because no dealers know what their allocations are going to be.

$350 is a big barrier to entry. . . but if the base cards sell well like Marvel Masterpieces Tier 4s do it might be worth it. . . If the set is going to rely on autographs and sketches for value I think that's going to be a tough sell.
 
Posts: 5169 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Apparently projected to release this time next week. SRP has risen to $379.99 for a box with 6 cards inside. I'm not sure even the rippers like those odds when the big hit alternates between autograph, diamond and sketch cards.

What I don't get is that people seem to feel this will show up in ePacks? How is that possible when all of the hits are either short printed or very short printed?

And playing Devil's Advocate, if you could gamble at say $65 a card on ePack, with the same odds, wouldn't that be cheaper to try?
 
Posts: 9440 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
Apparently projected to release this time next week. SRP has risen to $379.99 for a box with 6 cards inside. I'm not sure even the rippers like those odds when the big hit alternates between autograph, diamond and sketch cards.

What I don't get is that people seem to feel this will show up in ePacks? How is that possible when all of the hits are either short printed or very short printed?

And playing Devil's Advocate, if you could gamble at say $65 a card on ePack, with the same odds, wouldn't that be cheaper to try?


Checklist has me all kinds of confused. I'm looking easily at over 200 Matckie autographs and 400 Elizabeth Debicki. The numbers don't look much different than any other set.

There is a lot in this set to pretend it is so scarce.
 
Posts: 4191 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rough estimates fall between 12,000 and 17,000 boxes, but I think they are just guessing. For the autographs, they just have a total amount per signer and break them up to limited numbered cards. Each pack is a box, so you can make a lot of boxes that way.

Some are saying the majority of this product will be sold on ePack. If that turns out to be true, UD has problems because this should be its premium non-sport set. Perhaps my way of thinking is incorrect, but I would say that if UD's dealers and distributors can't make good money from it, who should? The whole way they have been operating has been confusing to me for a long time.
 
Posts: 9440 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
Rough estimates fall between 12,000 and 17,000 boxes, but I think they are just guessing.


Cardboard connection states base sets are 100 cards numbered to 149 each. I'm guessing 4 commons per pack/box but even if it goes down to 3 that is less than 4000 boxes. Of course if I calculate just one of the sketch sets inserted at 1 every 12 boxes than it goes up to over 8000. Maybe it is one common per pack which would put it at 14000.

I wonder if the concept is to start building the autograph/hits around the set vice the set around the autographs? Sort of a method to force the cards to be more desirable and valuable.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,
 
Posts: 4191 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Looks like they are on the street! Early ebay asking prices are......hopeful....wishful....too much? Wink
 
Posts: 4191 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This has been kind of interesting.

Most of the people I see breaking this so far are sports card guys who are saying that 'coming from the sports card side it's not a bad value.' Most seem to be looking to flip. Some of the individual non-hit cards do seem to have some value, so that's a bit new.

I hardly see any entertainment card guys opening this, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Are you guys seeing entertainment card collectors opening Black Diamond?

Personally I've been experiencing Marvel fatigue. The autographs in this set are largely the same as they've been in most other sets. They've added a few new signatures that I might try to pick up, but based on the pictures I've seen I'm not particularly interested in chasing them.

I normally would collect Hayley Atwell, and Cobie Smulders, but the I don't like Smulders images they used, and at least some of the Atwell images used are the same as the images used in Endgame.

People seem to expect that sketches and autographs for this set are way more expensive than other sets -- perhaps that will normalize over time, but personally I'm not willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for an Atwell because it came from this set vs any other set. . . especially when it has the same image. I will be curious to see how that plays out, but in line with mykdude the asking prices are. . . optimistic.

I don't get the 'diamonds.' I don't really like the way that they look. It's just not my thing.

I really think the 'polished patches' cards look bad.
 
Posts: 5169 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A few more observations. . .


In many of Winston Duke's cards he looks like a cosplayer to me:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333999162451

This Elizabeth Olsen looks really poorly photoshopped:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124722136876
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333999165878

In all of the Cobie Smulders cards I've seen she is looking awkwardly off in the distance or at the ground? I like this image the best, but the hair is poorly, and obviously photoshopped:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124722098226

Paul Bettany's Ear:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/363394163583
 
Posts: 5169 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The photos, or maybe better to say how the photos are designed, is pretty much the same as UD's other Marvel sets. You could call it photoshop, or maybe some 3-D attempt. They just look like some sort of peel off sticker, only they aren't. The peel off stickers are the signatures, which is the thing I noticed most when I saw these cards. Many times you can't tell that it's a sticker because of the placement, but with these Black Diamonds it pops out at you even in the scans.

They are also cramming in a lot of elements on certain cards. Relics are pushed to the right side, gems are either on the left or straight line center, stickers move around depending on what else is on the card and the photo has to be somewhere. None of the parts flow into the other, it all looks like build a block to me.

Look, if you pull a big autograph, or one with lots of gems, or a great sketch, you are going to have a card that will cover the box price with good profit left over. That's only if you sell it though. If your big card turns out to be not so big, I don't think these numbered colors or numbered relics or numbered parallels will make that up very much. An average Black Diamond box, like all other average boxes in all other products, will have far less value than its cost.

And if you are a card collector, or a Marvel fan, it's all academic anyway. I have never bought a card box with the idea that if I pull a big card, I'm going to sell it to someone else and get the rest for free. I want that big card for myself. I am always spending the money for the cards, not spending it to try to make money back. I know I won't have enough out of one average box here to justify the try for me and that is the problem when card makers stop making collectibles for the people who actually collect them.
 
Posts: 9440 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Chris Evans inscription autograph sold for $3500:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274795713235

Looks like this will sell out quickly. The sports card guys seem to be all over this release.
 
Posts: 5169 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Manufactured diamonds are just as bad as manufactured patches or other relics. I hate pulling anything manufactured but at the Marvel Black Diamond price point? That's brutal. At least some of them have autos. The Polished Patches are even worse.

Who is this set aimed at? Does anyone actually care about manufactured diamonds? The base cards are fine but building a set will cost a fortune. People at Blowout are loving the inscriptions but that's about it.
 
Posts: 59 | Location: The World | Registered: August 03, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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