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Twilight Zone Elizabeth Allen "Auto" Card?
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Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Batman
posted
Saw this card being sold by her "nephew", it has "from the estate of" where her signature should be to prevent unauthorized or copied signatures. There is a small area of white border around the card which was suppossed to be trimmed later to avoid wear around the card edges while being signed by the actress/actor. It could be legit, but something tells me it may not be.
Any thoughts?

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Posts: 5725 | Location: Brielle, NJ | Registered: April 03, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There is always some new wrinkle going on. The Elizabeth Allen Twilight Zone autograph card was indeed very limited and commands a high price because the master set builders want it. I have no idea if it was meant to be an incentive or if Ms. Allen just got ill and never signed most of her cards as the seller tells it.

Anyway, this seller has apparently already sold a couple of these cards blank before it came to him that printing "from the Estate of" might mean something. Without supporting documentation it doesn't. There is also at least one other seller that has one of the blank cards up for auction now. This is a big problem because, assuming that these really are original cards, anybody could forge the signature on a blank.

As for the white border around the card, I don't know. As a rule, the more explanations people give you the less you should believe them. In any case the price is pretty modest and there is no misrepresentation of an autograph. I guess if you are just looking to fill in a hole you could think of it as a novelty item.

But people buying the signed Allen card at this time should be very cautious. Whether or not these are authentic cards, if they are on the market without a signature someone will surely try to provide it. Shake Head

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,
 
Posts: 8881 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think these cards were sold by her nephew, who did provide in his auctions plenty of evidence to prove he was who he said he was.

He actually used to have some actual signed ones by her, but sold them all for fair market value as I recall, and I don't think there were any complaints. Later, he decided to sell the blanks he had left, but precisely to prevent people forging signatures on the blanks, he used the "From the Estate of" notation which he himself wrote on the card.

As for the extra white border, I believe Rittenhouse use to (and still may) send the cards out like that, and then trim them once the cards were returned, to help prevent dinged corners.

With that said, I would say the card shown above is indeed authentic, but as always, exercise caution and ask any questions before making a purchase. If the seller's answer does not satisfy you (or worse, the seller doesn't respond or offer return priveleges) simply don't buy the item.

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Posts: 3030 | Location: California | Registered: December 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The autograph card (A15) was originally planned for the very first TZ series in 1999, but I think Ms. Allen was already in poor health. A limited number of signed cards were returned eventually, and RA made them the 6-case-purchase incentive for TZ Series 4.

Or I thought that was the whole story, until I saw that the NSU guide lists "A15 Elizabeth Allen redem" under Series 1 and "A15 Elizabeth Allen (only avl. by redemption)" under Series 2.

My memory still goes with the first paragraph, and that fits with Raven's summary "got ill and never signed most of her cards."

I haven't seen a redemption card, but it's reported to be a lot more in demand than just a "novelty" item. These cards from the estate might actually be quite desirable, and the auction description (plus whatever comes in the package) seems to provide fairly iron-clad authentication. Ms. Allen was born Elizabeth Ellen Gillease, and the auction seller is indeed her nephew Patrick Gillease.

The estate cards are unlikely to be anywhere near as valuable as a truly signed card, and as long as nobody finds a way to erase the "from the estate" words and forge a signature (ruining things for everybody), I think it's a pretty neat item for the hobby. It's better than an unsigned card or a redemption card, because it's documented that it actually was in her possession.

And "Away We Go" ...
 
Posts: 2423 | Location: North Augusta, SC, USA | Registered: November 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I bought one of these from the nephew quite some time ago, and there is a white border around the card, which has no signature. However, to make the card normal size more then the border would have to be trimmed from it. And as far as I can tell, the card is the same stock, etc. as the other autographed cards from the set.
 
Posts: 2369 | Location: USA | Registered: November 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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this clown has been selling these for years and Steve Charendoff has done nothing,they both should be ashamed of themselves!!this stinks to high heaven!!
 
Posts: 182 | Location: runcorn | Registered: January 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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On the contrary, I believe Mr. Charendorff has warned us that there are counterfeits out there and that they are getting around. He's even doing us a solid and offering to authenticate the cards for us. What do people expect him to do?

These cards routinely sell for $300+ and at the risk of getting a board warning or whatever, I'll freely share that there is at least one on e-bay with a BIN of under a hundred that I am not jumping at for a reason. Not trying to get everyone in a ker-fuffle, just taking a friendly warning under advisement and using my own judgment in comparing it to other scans I've had available. The card is not described as being from the nephew, but it is the seller described in the RA thread. The card could be legit, but I vote with my dollars and I am voting no thank you. It looks like it got taken down earlier, and then just re-listed.--Chris

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Posts: 423 | Location: Heaven (Barrie, Ontario, Canada) | Registered: June 22, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The problem is that however hard everyone tries if a fraudster is determined ennough he will find a way to sell.

In the end it's up to each individual to use their own judgement and if not sure to seek the advice of others.

If something looks too good to be true it probably is but in this multi media age everyone has access to ways of checking things out to make sure an item is legit or fake.
 
Posts: 2498 | Location: Sutton Coldfield England | Registered: August 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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why the delay.im sure he could of done something before.surly any 'over cards' signed or otherwise should of been returned to Rittenhouse.they must be his or Rittenhouse's property.he should get his lawyers on this?
 
Posts: 182 | Location: runcorn | Registered: January 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just saw one of these ("from the estate . . .") listed on ebay, and looked here to find the background. The seller has 10 available, at $60 a pop.
 
Posts: 1568 | Location: Huntsville, AL United States | Registered: November 30, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
Just saw one of these ("from the estate . . .") listed on ebay, and looked here to find the background. The seller has 10 available, at $60 a pop.


"This is the single rarest card in the Twilight Zone series" (and I happen to have 10 of them). Big Grin

I'm still going to agree with myself from 13 years ago, it's a novelty item if you want it, believe it to be genuine and pay a reasonable price. The signed Elizabeth Allen card is rare and valuable. The unsigned leftover stock, whether left blank or printed "from the Estate of" is only worth as much as filling in the spot in your Twilight Zone collection is to you. If you have doubts you should leave it alone.

I don't find it unusual that these cards are still kicking around, everything comes back for resale eventually. Its just that rare finds are better when they don't appear as multiples, but that is part of the history of this one.
 
Posts: 8881 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I would be more wary of these because the handwriting is different and the white border has been trimmed off.
 
Posts: 2658 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by chesspieceface:
I think these cards were sold by her nephew, who did provide in his auctions plenty of evidence to prove he was who he said he was.

He actually used to have some actual signed ones by her, but sold them all for fair market value as I recall, and I don't think there were any complaints. Later, he decided to sell the blanks he had left, but precisely to prevent people forging signatures on the blanks, he used the "From the Estate of" notation which he himself wrote on the card.

As for the extra white border, I believe Rittenhouse use to (and still may) send the cards out like that, and then trim them once the cards were returned, to help prevent dinged corners.

With that said, I would say the card shown above is indeed authentic, but as always, exercise caution and ask any questions before making a purchase. If the seller's answer does not satisfy you (or worse, the seller doesn't respond or offer return priveleges) simply don't buy the item.


You are correct. I bought several autographed cards as well as blank ones shortly after he started running the auctions after her death. He told me she did not return any cards where her autograph did not fit completely on the card and ran off the edge. He also was kind enough to send several 8x10 stills from her different roles, a few of which were also signed. All of the cards had the white boarders on the edge as they had not been sent back to be trimmed and placed into packs.
 
Posts: 36 | Location: The other side..... | Registered: January 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This card is sort of a mystery and it gets less clear the more I try to research it. The information that I had at the time and have kept was that the A15 was supposed to have been signed and released in the first 1999 Twilight Zone set. Elizabeth Allen did not return them because she was ill and a Redemption card was issued instead.

Eventually a smaller number of signed cards were returned to RA and they were released as a 6-case incentive card in the 2005 TZ Science and Superstition set. I'm not sure if that was after Redemptions were honored or not. In any case Allen passed away in 2006 and by 2008 both blank A15s and signed "by the Estate of" A15s were out for public sale. It was believed that RA, who had paid to make the cards, hadn't given anyone permission to distribute them, but who knows.

Now RA's old product page hasn't been working for a long while, so I can't confirm their version of the timeline, but the 2021 Non-Sport Almanac notes the A15 only in 2000 TZ The Next Dimension Autographs. It says "A15 Autograph Challenge Winner" and then "A15 Elizabeth Allen WINNER $250- $500". I assume they are referring to the Redemption card and maybe having it honored. I can't see any listing for a 6-case incentive in the 2005 TZ product, but I got that data from someplace I'm sure.

So we don't know how many A15s were ever signed and released either to honor the Redemption card or maybe have that incentive that might have happened. Nor do we know how many cards were sent to Allen and may have been left unsigned, figure an average of between 200 - 500 copies, but could be anything more than a 100 and less than 1000. Nor do we know if all leftovers were distributed in the last 15 years since she died or if some are still in an attic somewhere.

That's about all I have on it, except that nothing good ever comes from unsigned autograph cards in my opinion. Wink
 
Posts: 8881 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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