Non-Sport Update's Card Talk
Cryptozoic's New Photo Set Boxes

This topic can be found at:
http://nonsportupdate.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/955604453/m/5377091086

January 09, 2016, 02:09 PM
Scifi Cards
Cryptozoic's New Photo Set Boxes
Found on GTS's Facebook Feed:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Cryptozoic to Debut NEW Photo Set Configuration – When it comes to collectors of entertainment trading cards, there are two distinct groups. One is a traditional base and chase set collector looking to chronicle the story of their favorite movies, TV shows, comic book characters, etc. The other is a bit of a thrill seeker looking to cash in by hitting an autograph card of a primary actor in the latest hit movie or TV release. Still others in this same vain, crave premium 1-of-1 art or sketch cards.<BR><BR>Cryptozoic, recognizing these differences, is kicking off 2016 by introducing a new product configuration to appeal to the first type of collector. The company will, in addition to releasing their standard hobby boxes, are producing a version of their products that they are calling Photo Sets.<BR><BR>These sets will consist of the entire base set and, each of the chase sets. They will not contain any inserts sets like replica patches, wardrobe/prop or autograph cards. Incredibly the MSRP for these new photo sets will be under $20. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Turns out the SRP is under $15. It should be noted that not ALL the chase sets are included. It seems any time there is a "1 per box" chase, that is NOT included in these mini-master sets. Which is pretty much the norm in the eBay world.<BR><BR>So, from my dealer perspective, they have just relegated the chase cards into the "unsellable" category along with the base set. <BR><BR>It also took away the small return I would get in selling the base sets upon opening boxes, further reducing the Return On Investment on box opening.<BR><BR>So, why not just go with a hobby box that has your "hits", and whatever chase/parallels you would normally get in a box. Make it a one-pack box much like Star Wars High Tek. Very similar to the gaming model of Starters and Boosters.<BR><BR>Also, this will depress the prices of other manufacturer's mini-master sets as people will think they should be able to buy any mini-master for $15.<BR><BR>But, I think like a dealer. What's the collector's opinion?Are the Photo Set Boxes a good thing for the hobby and collectors?YesNoDoesn't matter, the hobby is doomed anyway.

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January 09, 2016, 02:30 PM
wolfie
If a Manufacturer can make a base set and chase sets, sell them for less than $20 and still make a profit then this is great news for collectors who for too long now have seen $65 boxes give them a base set they can't sell and an autograph card that is worth $5.

I don't know if this will work but i have to applaud anyone who is trying something to try and change things and get people back into taking an intrest in cards.

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January 09, 2016, 03:58 PM
Triple-Frog
I think it's a good idea for collectors who can't afford to buy multiple boxes to get a mini master but I think you would have to combine it with making the sealed boxes hits only with no base or chase cards.

For case breakers/dealers this makes the chase sets as worthless as the base sets and they would much rather have a hits only product at a reduced price. I certainly would not buy boxes or cases of any release in the current standard 24 packs of five cards per box where a mini master was being sold like this.
January 09, 2016, 05:25 PM
hammer
Don't like it, the hobby needs dealers (even the bad ones). If the profit from mini masters goes the hobby goes with it

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hammer,
January 11, 2016, 06:02 AM
ravenheart
It would be more beneficial if Crypto put more hits in their regular boxes. This one auto, and at best one costume, per box thing has to stop. The Hobbit sets remain the worst value boxes on the market.
January 11, 2016, 06:55 AM
Raven
It's an idea that sounds good on the surface, but actually undermines things even more than they now exist. I am all for affordable product, paying upwards of $75 a box to get maybe $30 in value tops on a average box is just too much of a difference to lose. At least not when you can take the same money and buy most of the single cards you'd like to pull. Most, not all. Wink

But I want the autograph hits, so a base card and insert card only box holds no interest for me. At the same time in hurts dealers for the reasons Ed stated. If you erode the dealer network anymore, who are you going to buy cards from, Walmart and direct sales if they take them?

If you want to go the route of a photo set, dumb name by the way, what's wrong with the original premium box construction that cost $35-$40 and had the base set, a few inserts and one or two premium hits? I loved those little boxes for Dexter and Vampirella and The Tudors. They were half the price of a traditional box, but they gave you the set and you still had a chance at a big hit.

Premium boxes and premium packs are still being made by certain manufacturers, but they are more expensive because of limited production and often more hits. I think that for some titles they are more a last ditch effort, rather than a first choice. So make it a first choice and sell it for $35 again. I'd be there. Smile
January 11, 2016, 11:41 AM
barobehere
As a former shop owner this kills profit margins. There were plenty of times a single customer would return to a box many times to finish a base set and maybe find a hit. This eradicates that. People who want to buy a base and go are done at that point. The "hit" buyers would stop once they were sure a box was "hitless". This hurts retails who don't do all their business online. There are plenty of sets I only want the base set for but this is going to hurt the hobby.
January 11, 2016, 01:43 PM
yorkbag
Once Upon a Time was a great box release from CZE. Full base set already in numbered order. Around 4 auto and wardrobe hits (in total) along with a couple of chase cards for one chase set.

There was no having to sort and be buried in thousands of base and chase cards per case making life a living card hell.

Bates Motel Season 1 was another awesome release as that came with a wrapped complete base set, handful of chase cards, and plenty of auto/wardrobe in one box.
January 11, 2016, 05:06 PM
boadster
I am not a base set fan, and have made that abundantly clear in other posts. Being the cold capitalist that I am, I did respect the argument from some base set collectors that it was a hobby, and that part of the charm and the fun is the hunt, and in acquiring the set. Doesn't this completely kill this, and as such wouldn't a lot of true set builders hate this? This seems akin to a factory baseball set, which was popular in the late 80's when cards went bonkers on speculation. How about simply working on your collation in each box? I would think this would stifle pack opening- the retail arm's single best profit margin avenue. Dumping on the people that sell your products to the consumer does not seem shrewd. I would think that if this product gets shunned by the hobby in general, this idea will die fast.
January 11, 2016, 07:08 PM
Raven
quote:
Originally posted by yorkbag:
Once Upon a Time was a great box release from CZE. Full base set already in numbered order. Around 4 auto and wardrobe hits (in total) along with a couple of chase cards for one chase set.

There was no having to sort and be buried in thousands of base and chase cards per case making life a living card hell.

Bates Motel Season 1 was another awesome release as that came with a wrapped complete base set, handful of chase cards, and plenty of auto/wardrobe in one box.


Those were not premium boxes or premium packs, they were loaded boxes. I believe OUAT SRP was sold around $95 and Bates is extremely limited and going for around $130. So while both are nice products, they are too expensive to be compared to the affordable, original premium box format that had a base set and 1 or 2 hits, but was only $35 - $45.
January 12, 2016, 07:02 AM
monkeyafterdark
Those low price premium boxes are the reason that I have a very large collection of Breygent's Deadworld cards... Smile
January 12, 2016, 02:23 PM
Firethorn10001
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
Those were not premium boxes or premium packs, they were loaded boxes.


Whether it is $40, $400 or $4000, I would consider something a premium pack/box if it just has 1 base set (or a subset of base cards), a few inserts and the hits.
January 12, 2016, 04:18 PM
Raven
quote:
Originally posted by Firethorn10001:
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
Those were not premium boxes or premium packs, they were loaded boxes.


Whether it is $40, $400 or $4000, I would consider something a premium pack/box if it just has 1 base set (or a subset of base cards), a few inserts and the hits.


Well these terms are very fluid because the manufacturers are basically making them up as they go along, take "photo set box" for instance, and then the collectors are using the terms to the best of their interpretation.

When I say "premium box set", I am referring to the construction formula of the original "premium box set". A small box with contents exactly like the traditional box, only no wrappers, a base set with no dups, maybe 3 - 4 chase cards and 1 - 2 main hits. The selling point here was the reduced price for the reduced expense of packaging, usually $30 - $45, depending on your deal.

That's what I would like to see come back as a "premium box set". Not something with a 10 card base set and 4 autographs and 4 relics. Or five stickers and 1 star autograph. Yes, those are very nice cards, but they should be, they are high end products that the average collector has a hard time affording.

And we have gotten far away from the thread topic of a $15 factory base set, aka "photo set box". Getting back on track, for everyone who buys single cards on eBay or right from a dealer, as profit avenues are closed for dealers, who is going to be bulk buying and opening product to offer those single hits, mini-masters and yes, even the $15 and less base sets we can get now?

There is a symbiotic relationship between card manufacturers, distributors, dealers and collectors. Collectors who only want a base set may not care whether they buy them from a dealer or the card maker, but when you can't find a dealer to service your other needs, you will care. Wink
January 12, 2016, 10:13 PM
Firethorn10001
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
Getting back on track, for everyone who buys single cards on eBay or right from a dealer, as profit avenues are closed for dealers, who is going to be bulk buying and opening product to offer those single hits, mini-masters and yes, even the $15 and less base sets we can get now?


The same dealers. If CZE is selling the base set with what I'll call common inserts (those that you get almost all of them in a box/box and a half) for $15 then dealers are selling it for $5-10 anyways. Things like foils, gold cards, plates, and cards sets that would take multiple cases (like Green/Red Arrow foils) will still need to be ripped from cases.
January 13, 2016, 04:50 AM
Raven
quote:
Originally posted by Firethorn10001:
The same dealers. If CZE is selling the base set with what I'll call common inserts (those that you get almost all of them in a box/box and a half) for $15 then dealers are selling it for $5-10 anyways. Things like foils, gold cards, plates, and cards sets that would take multiple cases (like Green/Red Arrow foils) will still need to be ripped from cases.


Yes, that's my point. Dealers are selling cheap base sets now, if that's all a collector wants. So why introduce a factory set that only makes some customers less likely to take a sealed box (I buy at least one box just for the base set all the time) and also reduces the customers for those base sets that dealers would put together from their busted cases.

For dealers it impacts profits from breaking product and perhaps box sales, even if they are selling the factory sets, excuse me "photo set box", while it really doesn't give collectors anything they can't get right now. How many 72 card base sets that can be constructed from one box can't be bought for under $15?

Now if some chase sets are included in the photo box, you could argue that it adds value for the collector. But then it would conversely decrease the content value a box buyer would receive and take away chase card construction value from the dealers breaking product.

If dealers can't make enough profits they have to shut down and that hurts the hobby. We don't have enough good dealers or hobby stores as it is.

Since I'm not a dealer, I think I will stop now. Suffice to say I voted NO. Big Grin
January 13, 2016, 06:20 PM
poita
I live in Australia and it costs a fortune to get anything delivered here from the US (especially since the Australian dollar is down around 30% in the past year). The non-sports market is basically non-existent here, other than individuals ordering from D&A or Blowout.

I can get individual cards sent through COMC at a reasonable price, but larger items such as boxes or sets are not so easy.

If this provides a mechanism to get more product down here and into comic book / collectibles shops, that is great by me. I would gladly pay $20 for a base set this way, because it costs me more than $30 to get a base set from eBay at present.
January 13, 2016, 11:03 PM
Komodo
If I read this correctly, this compares to having Retail vs Hobby sets produced, just with a nicer label Smile

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