quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
But let's assume that you are correct in your guess webjon, and I don't know that you are, but let's assume. Doesn't that mean that UD is designing product with ePacks as the end game.

All it means is that Upper Deck has another venue to sell cards, one which they exclusively control. They no longer need to rely on being able to sell out product to distributors, and if a product doesn't sell out to distributors they don't need to drop the price to entice them to buy it.

Also Upper Deck likely makes better margins on ePack than they do in the standard distribution channel -- not only because they own more of the channel, but also because they end up needing to print/ship far fewer common cards.

I am not sure if I said this on Card Talk or another board, but initially I was skeptical of ePack. After actually trying it out I've found that I do think it is a game changer in the hobby. First -- I can go buy a pack and not worry about it being cherry picked. Second I can buy a pack whenever I want. Third I can trade cards I don't want for cards that I do at no cost to me at all -- no shipping costs, no worry about lost packages, no trips to the post office. Fourth -- I can have cards transferred to COMC at no cost to me to immediately put them up for sale. Fifth -- I don't need to deal with excess common cards I don't want. I can easily trade them, transfer them to COMC, or never have them shipped to me. The downsides -- pack price is high, and it kinda sucks having to pay to have stuff shipped to you that you already paid for.

The ePack opening experience is similar to opening a regular pack, and if you want to touch the material in a card have it shipped to you.

If nothing else sign up and open the free pack a day they offer (only digital cards for free, but you can at least see what the experience is like).

In all honestly the experience on ePack -- the trading to make sets and get achievements, the buying one pack at a time if you want to is more like card collecting used to be than it is now. These days it is difficult to find packs (or boxes for that matter) locally, when I do find packs I assume they are cherry picked, I don't bother trading low end commons/inserts at all because the postage isn't worth it.

I probably would never buy a box of Daredevil for $115 or whatever it's going to cost. . . But on ePack over the course of weeks and months I'll end up buying packs here and there. It's a product I never would have bought before, but since I can get packs that aren't cherry picked I will.

Everyone complains about the costs of products now. . . This legitimately reduces the minimum buy in price on unopened product.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raven:
But let's assume that you are correct in your guess webjon, and I don't know that you are, but let's assume. Doesn't that mean that UD is designing product with ePacks as the end game.

All it means is that Upper Deck has another venue to sell cards, one which they exclusively control. They no longer need to rely on being able to sell out product to distributors, and if a product doesn't sell out to distributors they don't need to drop the price to entice them to buy it.

Also Upper Deck likely makes better margins on ePack than they do in the standard distribution channel -- not only because they own more of the channel, but also because they end up needing to print/ship far fewer common cards./QUOTE]

So your short answer to that would be YES then.

And if we accept that all the rest you say is true, why call it another venue to sell cards? Wouldn't it be the preferred venue for UD?

Please don't misunderstand, I get where there are card collectors who like COMC and don't mind putting the online time into buying, trading and vaulting cards. This ePack option also has a bit of a casino gambling vibe going for it. Buy a few packs and see it you hit a jackpot kind of thing, on a much smaller level. So are more ePack buyers card collectors or more card flippers or more obsessive buyers? I don't know, but it sounds like it could get addictive just in the process.

It's an interesting conversation, maybe it should be in different thread though. Anyway thanks for your thoughts webjon.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
So your short answer to that would be YES then.

No, not at all.

My short answer is what I said the first time.

"With ePack I'm guessing that fewer and fewer Upper Deck products will wind up dumped. I'm guessing whatever they don't sell they'll just put on ePack rather than selling at deep discounts to distributors."

If you'd like to speculate on what you think UD's end game is or how they design sets then go ahead, but that is your speculation -- not mine.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

I can go buy a pack and not worry about it being cherry picked.

I'm not so sure about that. You are i think buying a pack of cards from a computor controlled system. It would be very easy to set this up to only give the better cards to people who buy a lot of packs, not that i'm saying that is happening you understand just in case my lawyer is reading this.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

I can go buy a pack and not worry about it being cherry picked.

I'm not so sure about that. You are i think buying a pack of cards from a computor controlled system. It would be very easy to set this up to only give the better cards to people who buy a lot of packs, not that i'm saying that is happening you understand just in case my lawyer is reading this.

I'd worry more that UD's Lawyer's are reading it

quote:

Originally posted by hammer:

I'd worry more that UD's Lawyer's are reading it

quote:

Originally posted by wolfie:

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

I can go buy a pack and not worry about it being cherry picked.

I'm not so sure about that. You are i think buying a pack of cards from a computor controlled system. It would be very easy to set this up to only give the better cards to people who buy a lot of packs, not that i'm saying that is happening you understand just in case my lawyer is reading this.

I am certainly not someone who buys a lot of packs. I've only bought packs, never a box or a case, and I've never felt like I was buying searched packs.

I can't say I've seen any ePack buyers making statements that indicate they think the pulls are unfair.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

I can't say I've seen any ePack buyers making statements that indicate they think the pulls are unfair.

That's good to hear, i'm sure if the system was fixed in any way it would show up very quickly and nobody would buy any.

Any updates for an exact release date?

It's already out there. Seen several breaks on Blowout, can't say I am impressed overall. The manufactured film cell relics are just filler and while the signer list is good they are ugly stickers which puts me off.

Hmm, maybe from me.

I'm sort of getting tired of Upper Deck's stickered autos. And their weird penchant for giving everything silly names. "Authentic Autograph" is fine, "Rabbit In A Snowstorm" just sounds stupid.