Non-Sport Update's Card Talk
Star Trek Inflexions (Rittenhouse)

This topic can be found at:
http://nonsportupdate.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/955604453/m/2927067196

October 07, 2019, 05:19 AM
ravenheart
Star Trek Inflexions (Rittenhouse)
quote:
Originally posted by X:
Well, I'm not buying cases, or collecting master sets, or in need of every base set going...


This is also me - I only collect autographs and occasionally costume cards - but I can't get excited for any set like this, because it's not just those things you mentioned that will draw unreasonable prices. Enough packs will contain cheap autographs, that everyone selling the good ones will over price them to balance all the losses they make on the **** ones. And the cost of packs and boxes to the consumer simply isn't worth the risk anymore. It used to be - I used to buy boxes for every new set I liked - but it hasn't been for a long time. 9/10 box buys now are simply burning cash for no reason.

I don't look at any set based on cost vs. profit/value for myself. I have no intention of selling anything. But I do look at them based on what dealers will need to get out of it. That is what will determine whether anything that's actually good from a set like this will be buyable or not. The good stuff from this set won't be, so what's to get excited about?
October 07, 2019, 12:27 PM
Raven
The good stuff from this set will be good, but if you can't get it what's to be excited about? Big Grin

When people say I wanted the prior Plummer autograph (or anyone from all the repeat signers listed), but it cost too much, do they expect this one to be less? When people say it's another chance to pull a big autograph, what happens when you don't? The box price is the price of what used to be the big autograph card that you are looking for, which is already out there. Just buy one of those and you're ahead of the game. Wink

Seriously, I don't know how this is even a debate. A collector who is not selling to offset the purchase price can't risk blind boxes here. A collector looking for a particular certified autograph from this list of so far repeat signers, can get them right now at cheaper prices than what will be asked for that big signer on the ultra premium card.

Collectors were grumbling when the $100 a box barrier for premium product was in danger. Well we are over $200 now. At what point does it become not worth it for a card collector?

I bought several boxes of GoT Inflexions at $160 and the excitement of the breaks was great and I got a couple of bigger cards, but the total value averaged out much less than the overall cost. This stuff will cost as much or more. DC CZX is already more. This is the point that it is not worth if for THIS card collector.
October 07, 2019, 12:54 PM
ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
The good stuff from this set will be good, but if you can't get it what's to be excited about? Big Grin


Basically, yes. I mean, I don't get excited when Lamborghini brings out a new model either... Wink

When GOT Inflexions came out, there were so many really common autographs of small names in there, that I entirely expected to get all the new signers except Tara Fitzgerald. And that should have been true, but dealers have finally realised (honestly, it's taken them an age) that boxes fetch more unopened than the value of the cards inside, so they're not opening them anymore. Or are only opening enough boxes per case to get the one really good card that's in there, and leaving the rest. I therefore only managed to get one card from that set (although with all that said, enough are available that I'll probably get some more if I pick my moment right).

That went one step further with Outlander CZX, and I haven't bought a single card. They're either not available at all, or the prices are absolute lunacy, even on really common repeat signers. The DC set will be worse.

Trek Inflexions I'm sure will have it's fair share of $5 cards, so I expect that to go the same way as the GOT one.

So I agree, where are we going to end up? Boxes are too expensive to buy, the value in the boxes means dealers are in danger of making such a loss that they only sell the boxes on without opening them, but can't because of the price... If that carries on, it ends one way.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ravenheart,
October 07, 2019, 02:26 PM
Raven
quote:
Originally posted by ravenheart:
So I agree, where are we going to end up? Boxes are too expensive to buy, the value in the boxes means dealers are in danger of making such a loss that they only sell the boxes on without opening them, but can't because of the price... If that carries on, it ends one way.


It's a Catch 22. Non-sport card makers are chasing the $500 boxes sold to deep-pocketed sports card collectors. Non-sport doesn't have anywhere near the demand or size of that market, even as shrunken as it has become since its hay day, and entertainment celebrity cards in specific titles will never sell like a sports superstar. The only thing that has been propping it up this far are the dealer incentives. Once the majority don't at least break even, it's over.

The good news is that someday there will be at lot of really nice, formerly ultra premium autograph cards discounted on eBay. Smile
October 07, 2019, 07:14 PM
WOMBLE
quote:
Originally posted by X:
Well, I'm not buying cases, or collecting master sets, or in need of every base set going... I'm the more excited for this than any set in long time. Honestly this forum is getting more like Blowout of late: analysis of cost vs. profit and little to no mention of what actual cards people are excited about.
...
Considerations of price aside, this set looks to have something for everyone across all of Trek (bar Discovery).


Yep, the cards are likely to look great, but it does seem to have hit a tipping point with the Star Trek fans.

Part of the appeal for many fans is enjoying collecting sets, but the common reaction with this set is that it's way too expensive to even begin with.
October 15, 2019, 11:31 AM
ravenheart



October 15, 2019, 03:40 PM
X
BOOM!

I'll take that Stewart over the previous 'sailor hat' movies auto.

The long lost Cumberbatch full-bleed has been signed.

The Nimoy is a great looking card. One of his best IMO.
October 21, 2019, 06:17 PM
ravenheart
Seems they've added a Zoe Saldana full bleed movie auto. Signed properly too, not that squiggle she did on the Guardians of The Galaxy sets - well, in theory. These are probably all mock-ups.


November 19, 2019, 09:02 AM
ravenheart
The full lists of autographs have been added to the checklist on the RA site.

No rarity indications yet, but assume everything good is Extremely Limited.
November 19, 2019, 12:04 PM
WOMBLE
quote:
Originally posted by ravenheart:
The full lists of autographs have been added to the checklist on the RA site...

Strange that there isn't a standard 'William Shatner' single autograph card since this is a premium set.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: WOMBLE,
November 19, 2019, 12:13 PM
ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by WOMBLE:
Strange that there isn't a standard 'William Shater' single autograph card since this is a premium set.


Watch it turn up in a future set, with a 50th Premium version of Patrick Stewart, and a regular version of Cirroc Lofton.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ravenheart,
November 19, 2019, 12:43 PM
ravenheart
Anyone else notice the "Art of Star Trek" design Christopher Plummer? Haven't seen that design before.
November 19, 2019, 05:13 PM
X
quote:
Originally posted by ravenheart:
quote:
Originally posted by WOMBLE:
Strange that there isn't a standard 'William Shater' single autograph card since this is a premium set.


Watch it turn up in a future set, with a 50th Premium version of Patrick Stewart, and a regular version of Cirroc Lofton.


The clue is in the name of this autograph style... RA did the Shatner and Stewart 50th 'premium' autos in their 50th Anniversary set:

https://www.scifihobby.com/pro.../startrek/50thanniv/
November 20, 2019, 05:20 AM
ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by X:
The clue is in the name of this autograph style... RA did the Shatner and Stewart 50th 'premium' autos in their 50th Anniversary set:

https://www.scifihobby.com/pro.../startrek/50thanniv/


To be fair, this is Rittenhouse. The clue is rarely in the title. They will literally throw anything into any set. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if some left over Bond autographs turned up in a Star Trek set.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ravenheart,
November 20, 2019, 01:22 PM
Raven
quote:
Originally posted by ravenheart:
To be fair, this is Rittenhouse. The clue is rarely in the title. They will literally throw anything into any set. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if some left over Bond autographs turned up in a Star Trek set.


Yeah that would be a good one, but I'm sure RA would be too afraid of the Bond producers and UD's license to do any mixing of titles. I do think they probably threw everything unreleased that they had into the Bond Final Edition and, on the chance that they left extra replacement copies in the vault, which is a likely possibility given the number of cards produced, the hobby outlets are such that there are many ways to get inventory out on the market if they wanted to unload, assuming there is anything to unload.

RA has really done a great job in planning out their long running autograph checklists. Whether Star Trek or Bond or Twilight Zone, they have closed up nearly all the numbered gaps that they left open in specific designs. With GoT, they never bothered numbering any of the various design formats, so we don't know which design any signer may truly be missing or what just hasn't shown up yet. With sticker autographs the problem of keeping the continuity doesn't exist, so give RA credit for doing it as long as they did.
November 20, 2019, 03:12 PM
Tommy C
Regarding Bond, RA has confirmed that there are 3 unreleased autos (as there are missing numbers) and that 1 was never signed, but they won't comment on the other 2. RA has not said who the 3 people are on these autos.
November 20, 2019, 04:01 PM
Raven
The missing Bond numbers are A291, A294 and WA48. Should they ever turn up, they would be unreleased cards. Although RA has not confirmed who those signers were supposed to be, the 40th Anniversary style A cards ended at A298, so I just assumed it could have been two of the newer actors from SPECTRE. The Women of Bond were more spaced out and ended with WA58, so the missing WA48 could have been anyone.
December 20, 2019, 02:52 PM
Raven
This has been live for a couple of days now. Cumberbatch seems to be the highest single autograph in the early going. Boxes appear to cost slightly lower than expected. I have been told there is at least one big case card, but I don't know if that's true.

Also I did have a box in hand and they are numbered to 6000. The original report was 350 cases/7000 boxes, so I don't know what happened to the other 1000 boxes.
December 29, 2019, 11:32 AM
Raven
So we're out about a week now. I was gifted a box and really liked the card designs. I thought I was lucky to pull a Kate Mulgrew Legends style autograph card as my big hit.

Take a look at what's happening on eBay. That Mulgrew is binning at $35. Other bins for well known names are in the $20 - $40 range. Auctions are running on many of the bigger autos. Cumberbatch and Blalock are under $300, Plummer went for under $50. The Nimoy went for less than his older autos.

This is the honeymoon period. This is the first blood that used to catch all the collectors who had to have it and couldn't wait. This is great for collectors, not for people who thought they could flip.

RA and CZE had better take note. They don't care now, these products have sold out from them, but they will care the next time they float Series 2. Collectors have laid off buying the boxes and the sellers have to break to recoup their money and they are dumping for anything. That's what non-sport boxes at $160 - $250 will get you and if you don't believe me, look at eBay.

The great news is, the cards are super and when the supply dries up, they will actually have a chance to rise in value like a real collectible used to do. Smile
December 29, 2019, 11:00 PM
webjon
RA should take note of what exactly?

That people are flooding the market with autograph cards as they open a brand new product?