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Silver Card Talk Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidDeb:
Certainly not a good pull, but probably consistent with what Topps paid to acquire it; 1.50$. Those amounts don't inspire a load of creativity...that's the bad side of the market.


The pay rate is known up front. If you don't like it or don't think it's enough to justify decent work THEN TURN THE JOB DOWN!

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Posts: 1343 | Location: Frederick, MD USA | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I agree, and honestly I wouldn't pay $1.50 for that sketch. I think Topps OVERPAID for it.
 
Posts: 109 | Location: Ormond Beach, FL | Registered: June 19, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had a sketch out of Clone Wars that was worse, the artist had drawn one figure, erased it somewhat and redrew another on top. The really good sketch artists use card companies to get there name out there so people like us will pay top dollar for their return cards and commissions (not to forget pride in their work). Poor sketches will promote niether.
 
Posts: 457 | Location: Raleigh | Registered: April 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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With these at almost twice the price as a 'normal' box.I do wonder what Topps are playing at??

I wouldn't want **** like this linked to my company.shocking!!

I was offered boxes at £90 and I almost had a fit.glad I said no.
 
Posts: 174 | Location: Liverpool | Registered: October 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of mintoncard
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With the previous track record that Topps has, why is anyone surprised by this "sketch". Topps should take a page from Rittenhouse, and actually guarantee a colored sketch in each box. With the money that they're charging, there is no excuse to allow a "sketch" like this into packs.
 
Posts: 858 | Location: Golden Valley, MN | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of chesspieceface
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by WandringRebel:
quote:
Originally posted by DavidDeb:
Certainly not a good pull, but probably consistent with what Topps paid to acquire it; 1.50$. Those amounts don't inspire a load of creativity...that's the bad side of the market.


The pay rate is known up front. If you don't like it or don't think it's enough to justify decent work THEN TURN THE JOB DOWN!


It's really the quality of the artist him or herself that makes the difference. Cardtalker "Prenz" has a thread elsewhere on this board that shows off his impressive collection of 1997 Fleer Ultra Spider-Man sketch cards. The way those cards were "commissioned" at a time when sketch cards were a new idea, I think it's very likely that those artists weren't paid at all for their cards, and certainly they weren't given any "returns" to sell later to make up for the low pay rate. Even so, it's hard to find a bad sketch from that set. But then again, those were all from working professional artists and were found just once per 12 boxes in a series that had a fairly low production run to begin with.

The problem is there are simply currently more products with more sketches than there are quality artists willing to draw them. For example, if David Desbois took 2 minutes on a sketch card, you would likely get something not to the level we're used to seeing from him, but it would still be "art", and I'm betting pretty good art at that.

On the other hand, there are a goodly number of sketch card artists working on Galactic Files (among other sets) that could spend all day drawing a card and it still wouldn't be any good.

I collect Star Wars cards generally in spite of the sketch cards as opposed to because of them, and in those terms, most of the Topps SW sets have been successful without considering the sketches. Still, it is unfortunate that the presence of sketch cards do tend to jack up the box prices.

My view is that only artists like Sean Pence, David Desbois, Russell Walks, VOC, Rhi Owens, Ted Dastick, Proctor, Kezele, and the like (fan favorites, I mean) should be hired to do these cards. They should be paid more to do them and do only as many as they want to. If that means they are found one per case (or less), so be it. Anything less than what artists like those consistently put into their sketch cards serves only to cheapen the entire Star Wars brand, believe that.

On the other hand, maybe it's only the sketches and their proven popularity that makes it so that there can even be 2-3 new Star Wars related card sets each year, not to mention the new influx of Marvel and DC card sets, some of which have boasted nice base card sets. Maybe without the lure of sketch cards at a rate of one per box, the Star Wars Galaxy series would have never even been relaunched, and the hobby would be poorer for that. Never mind the sketch cards, Galaxy Series 4-7 are some of the finest base card sets ever issued.

All that said, it is hard to imagine that Lucasfilm would be happy with some of the cards that have made it into the boxes with the Star Wars logos and copyrights prominently appearing on them. I don't think it could hurt to send scans of these truly lacking examples into Lucasfilm (their licensing department) and maybe they could get Topps to raise their standards, once made acutely aware of some of the shoddy work Topps allows into packs from time to time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chesspieceface,

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Posts: 3113 | Location: California | Registered: December 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Electrawoman Cards f/k/a jane
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I actually got Topps to replace one of the horrid sketches I'd pulled from a LOTR Evolution release. I had 3 lines on it. I never could tell what it was. They send me another common artist....understandable, but at least I could make out that it was an Orc. I called and called and called and annoyed them.

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Posts: 3112 | Location: Queens NYC | Registered: September 21, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of Headless Horseman
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quote:
Originally posted by DavidDeb:
Certainly not a good pull,


Well that would be the understatement of the year!!!

ha ha ha

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Rise up, my unholy Horseman!
Come forth again through the Tree of the Dead..."
 
Posts: 1106 | Location: Freehold, NJ, USA | Registered: January 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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I appreciate that some of our working sketch card artists have weighed in on this thread. While I agree with David's assertion that $1.50/card does not provide much inspiration to produce quality work, Laura is 100% correct in saying that since the pay rate is known up front, don't take the job if you are not willing to do the (quality) work! We don't expect a mini Mona Lisa for that price, but come on! Show some pride!

And I do have to disagree about only hiring fan favorites as sketch card artists on new sets. If that were they case, chances are we would never discover a lot of new talent out there. What I would like to see artists do is draw in the style that suits them best. I mean, personally, I prefer to collect photo-realistic type sketches. But not everyone can pull that off. So if you're an animation artist or drawing graphic novel style is what you do best, do that and do it well. Pulling a well-executed sketch, no matter the style, is what makes me, as a collector, very happy. Smile

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Debi

Reliving my childhood one piece of painted plastic and slab of cardboard at a time.
 
Posts: 968 | Location: San Diego | Registered: July 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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Hi Batman,
Send me your card and I'll have my rottie Satch yak on it. That should up the value! Big Grin Big Grin

NL
 
Posts: 804 | Location: san diego | Registered: December 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of DavidDeb
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by WandringRebel:
quote:
Originally posted by DavidDeb:
Certainly not a good pull, but probably consistent with what Topps paid to acquire it; 1.50$. Those amounts don't inspire a load of creativity...that's the bad side of the market.


The pay rate is known up front. If you don't like it or don't think it's enough to justify decent work THEN TURN THE JOB DOWN!


My comment wasn't on the decision about working on an official set or not Laura; but about getting paid for the work done in term of effort and time invested in each artwork. Each artist weights the goods and bads while making such a decision and there is certainly the exposure advantage, but in my opinion, the payment per card doesn't justify the hours of work needed to create something that would satify most collectors.

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Posts: 529 | Location: Canada | Registered: March 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of tangent
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With Artist Proof cards becoming a relatively standard part of the payment for sketches, I don't commission such APs from artists who have low quality pack inserted cards, regardless of how much better their commissioned work is.

Another aspect of this issue is that many collectors keep on requesting 'real' Marvel artists (for example) to do more of the Marvel sketch cards etc. Such artists have less time and better paid alternative work, so it is unlikely that their sketch card work would be of high standard.
 
Posts: 1574 | Location: temp UK, usually Australia | Registered: July 31, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidDeb:
but in my opinion, the payment per card doesn't justify the hours of work needed to create something that would satify most collectors.


With all due respect David, I would love to pull one of your sketches some day, but as a collector I don't really expect it. I am satisfied to find a sketch that is representative of the product and is professionally done. I have said this before, don't show me the best sketches in any product, they will all look wonderful. Show me the worst sketches, show me the average sketches, those are the ones you are most likely to get.

I agree with you that the compensation is too little and I blame the manufacturer more than the artists for what goes into packs, but there has to be a minimum standard of quality from both. If its a premium release that costs even more, it's not unreasonable to expect more in return.

There were no hours of work that went into this particular sketch. One minute from a three year old child could have produced the same thing. I don't know what artist would want to put his name to it, $1.50 or not. I don't know what manufacturer would want to put it into a $100 box. Well we do know what artist and what manufacturer Big Grin, but the worst part is, if this sketch is not below the minimum standard, how many more are out there like it?
 
Posts: 9440 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of DavidDeb
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
quote:
Originally posted by DavidDeb:
but in my opinion, the payment per card doesn't justify the hours of work needed to create something that would satify most collectors.


With all due respect David, I would love to pull one of your sketches some day, but as a collector I don't really expect it. I am satisfied to find a sketch that is representative of the product and is professionally done. I have said this before, don't show me the best sketches in any product, they will all look wonderful. Show me the worst sketches, show me the average sketches, those are the ones you are most likely to get.

I agree with you that the compensation is too little and I blame the manufacturer more than the artists for what goes into packs, but there has to be a minimum standard of quality from both. If its a premium release that costs even more, it's not unreasonable to expect more in return.

There were no hours of work that went into this particular sketch. One minute from a three year old child could have produced the same thing. I don't know what artist would want to put his name to it, $1.50 or not. I don't know what manufacturer would want to put it into a $100 box. Well we do know what artist and what manufacturer Big Grin, but the worst part is, if this sketch is not below the minimum standard, how many more are out there like it?


yeah, of course, I was talking in general, not on that sketch in particular. I agree there should be a minimum standard control that would not accept 'all cards' mostly to ensure that collectors get something nice.

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Posts: 529 | Location: Canada | Registered: March 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hmmm... me thinks Shum is a great artist...

...piss artist, that is.

Colour me worried now. Got a box of this coming and with the hit and miss nature of it I fear I've wasted money I could barely spend as is.

In all honestly i'd sooner have no sketch than this or the screaming monkeys I endlessly found in the Indy sets. It's a joke that no one finds funny.
 
Posts: 235 | Location: UK | Registered: March 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidDeb:
quote:
Originally posted by WandringRebel:
quote:
Originally posted by DavidDeb:
Certainly not a good pull, but probably consistent with what Topps paid to acquire it; 1.50$. Those amounts don't inspire a load of creativity...that's the bad side of the market.


The pay rate is known up front. If you don't like it or don't think it's enough to justify decent work THEN TURN THE JOB DOWN!


My comment wasn't on the decision about working on an official set or not Laura; but about getting paid for the work done in term of effort and time invested in each artwork. Each artist weights the goods and bads while making such a decision and there is certainly the exposure advantage, but in my opinion, the payment per card doesn't justify the hours of work needed to create something that would satify most collectors.


My comment doesn't just apply to official sets. If you don't feel that you're being given enough compensation for your work then don't agree to whatever art job it is you're being asked to do.

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Posts: 1343 | Location: Frederick, MD USA | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of HIM
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Not reading everything but my take is, blame Topps, dont knock the artist.

Is that not a sketch card? Did the artist not do the job he was paid for? He held up his end.

Now, if the amount paid for the box wasnt worth the sketch, give more static to Topps than the artist.

People are quick to complain when they drop money on a box and get cards like this but when they pay the same price but get an Acar etc, they jump for joy. Cant have it both ways. Its a gamble, everyone knows it ahead of time.

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Posts: 2485 | Location: Austin Tx | Registered: December 11, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Obi Wan Chrisobi
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HIM:
Not reading everything but my take is, blame Topps, dont knock the artist.

Is that not a sketch card? Did the artist not do the job he was paid for? He held up his end.

Now, if the amount paid for the box wasnt worth the sketch, give more static to Topps than the artist.

People are quick to complain when they drop money on a box and get cards like this but when they pay the same price but get an Acar etc, they jump for joy. Cant have it both ways. Its a gamble, everyone knows it ahead of time.


I agree completely. Pulling lower end sketches is just pulling lower end autograph cards. You're rolling the dice everytime you buy a box and sometimes you get something you don't like.

And you're right, don't blame the artist, he was commissioned to provide sketch cards and that is exactly what he produced. The dictionary defines a sketch as a rough preliminary drawing often quickly produced to capture key characteristics as a prelude to other more detailed works. That is exactly what this sketch is... a rough little drawing that captured the look of the character. As an experiment, I showed the pic of the sketch to my neice and she immediately shouted "Hammerhead! That's Hammerhead!". It might be a simplistic piece, but it accomplished it's goal of evoking it's subject. I once pulled a sketch by Dick Ayers in a Marvel Silver Age box and it wasn't much more elaborate than the one that started this thread. But I accepted it instead of complaining since it was what was promised... a sketch card.

I think the real problem here is that collectors and dealers have been conditioned to expect higher end pieces with regards to sketch cards. First they were rare, now they are common. Then they added color, multiple characters, multiple panels, etc. Some artists have gone that extra mile to produce high end pieces and many buyers have taken the stance that "since one can do it, everyone should". It's reached the point that many expect to pull a high level piece of art out of every box and that just isn't realistic.

So who exactly is to blame...?

- the artist who fufilled his contract? He did as required and never forget that art is subjective. The original poster hates the piece, but my neice loves it (she's almost ten).

-the company? They commissioned sketch cards knowing the kind of work that the artist would provide and they decide what to pay for them. The marketing needs to be addressed for using the higher end stuff in advertising, but that is also true of how they advertise the autograph signers. As for quality control, as long as the artists have delivered what they were contracted to deliver, they are going to be happy. Good sketch vs. bad sketch is subjective at best. Also remember that the higher cost of these boxes is due to the size of the set, not the quality of the inserts.

-the consumer? Heightened expectations have created a sense of entitlement amongst a lot of us. We all know that there is some gold to be found out there but it's foolish to expect it every time, especially with something like art that is reliant on a person's individual taste.

To conclude my long winded diatribe, I offer these final words... if you get a card you aren't happy with, suck it up and move on with your life. Peace out.

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Posts: 425 | Location: Canada | Registered: August 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Batman
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I completely disagree with both of you but I will respond in an adult manner unlike the previous response. I have a right as a consumer to expect at least reasonable quality in whatever product I purchase, regardless of what it is, an automobile, a shirt, or a box of trading cards. If I keep quiet about it nothing will change so I put it out there so at least the manufacturers see that people are not happy. I opened three other boxes and got nice sketches out of each one, where there any from the "top" artists, which in itself is subjective, no, but still quality work was done on each card. All I ask for is an honest effort. It's a shame people ans manufacturers don't take more pride in what they do.

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Posts: 5759 | Location: Brielle, NJ | Registered: April 03, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of Headless Horseman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Obi Wan Chrisobi:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HIM:

- the artist who fufilled his contract? He did as required and never forget that art is subjective. The original poster hates the piece, but my neice loves it (she's almost ten.


Well, I showed my 13 year old a picture of it last night and all he could do was laugh at it and say who would draw that? So, the card was made for someone obviously younger than 13, maybe a 10 to 12 year old. That is really good work considering fans of Star Wars are the laying out good money for this product.

This artist should be ashamed of himself for lack of effort he put in producing this product for the fans buying this set.

What a shame!!!!

Shake Head

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"Rise up once more, my Dark Avenger!
Rise up, my unholy Horseman!
Come forth again through the Tree of the Dead..."
 
Posts: 1106 | Location: Freehold, NJ, USA | Registered: January 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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