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Star Trek 50th Anniversary (Rittenhouse)
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Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of WOMBLE
posted
If dealers are the only ones who are able to make up sets of these chase cards, why don't Rittenhouse issue them as factory sets in the first place?
Other BONUS Sets Include: "The Cage" Uncut - 70 Cards (1:12 Packs) 70-card, gold foil-stamped set, retelling the entire original pilot episode, scene-by-scene. Nearly 150 different photos. The most ambitious single-episode set ever produced.
"Mirror, Mirror" Uncut - 50 Cards (1:12 Packs) 50-card set of this classic episode, arguably the most popular of all 80 TOS episodes! This "Uncut" bonus set, printed on high-end mirror board, retells the entire episode, scene-by-scene. 100 different photos.
 
Posts: 1085 | Location: UNITED KINGDOM | Registered: December 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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You raise some interesting points, I don't think I've ever heard the term "factory set" used in a non-sport card content. It was sports cards that had factory sets because of their size. Non-sport manufacturers seem to like the term "premium box" for the products that are distributed as a full set, even though they are usually under 100 cards. After that we just get dealers putting together base sets and chase sets to sell as packaged units.
I did buy a couple of boxes of ST 50th Anniversary, but had no expectation of completing anything, certainly not the chase sets.

As to your question, RA does the exact same thing with Bond cards. The last Bond product they issued, James Bond Archives 2015, had I believe 3 large chase sets covering 3 prior movies, while the base set was Quantum of Solace. Good luck completing those on your own, pretty impossible. But the idea seems to be that impossible to collect chase sets add value to the boxes and cases. So you can accuse RA of overreaching with this formula, but on the other hand it seems that at least the elite collectors are in step with it. If not, enough people must be still buying the cards since RA keeps repeating the pattern and even ups the ante with each release.

As for "factory chase sets" after the fact, that would be the worse thing RA could do. Dealers would have fits because they are the ones putting them together. Collectors would feel cheated because these chase cards are pretending to be hits in the boxes, plus they are the ones buying the completed set from the dealers at additional cost. If factory boxed product suddenly turned up a few months after the release had cooled off only collectors who never bought the boxes would be happy about it.

I do agree with you though, it is overkill and takes the fun away to have too many loose ends that the average collector can't afford. Maybe no one is worried about the lowly average collector anymore, but that is a different topic. Big Grin
 
Posts: 9441 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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She cannny tak anymore capt, the whole thing is going to implode. Shake Head

Simply not logical.

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Posts: 28773 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 82 | Location: massachusetts | Registered: March 28, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond Card Talk Member
Picture of hammer
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by WOMBLE:
If dealers are the only ones who are able to make up sets of these chase cards, why don't Rittenhouse issue them as factory sets in the first place?
Other BONUS Sets Include: "The Cage" Uncut - 70 Cards (1:12 Packs) 70-card, gold foil-stamped set, retelling the entire original pilot episode, scene-by-scene. Nearly 150 different photos. The most ambitious single-episode set ever produced.
"Mirror, Mirror" Uncut - 50 Cards (1:12 Packs) 50-card set of this classic episode, arguably the most popular of all 80 TOS episodes! This "Uncut" bonus set, printed on high-end mirror board, retells the entire episode, scene-by-scene. 100 different photos.


Seems such a waste. All that time and effort to produce a set of cards hardly anyone will see. With perfect collation you need 3 cases so there will be lots of part sets. I like the idea of a limited factory set, for future sets like these , so they can get to collectors who can enjoy them. Skybox did some boxed sets back in the day.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hammer,
 
Posts: 12066 | Location: England | Registered: September 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of WOMBLE
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer:

Seems such a waste. All that time and effort to produce a set of cards hardly anyone will see. With perfect collation you need 3 cases so there will be lots of part sets.

I can understand Rittenhouse saying that a separate 'factory set' based only on 1 episode/old film would not be viable as a separate release, but there must be a better way than how they are doing it at the moment.
 
Posts: 1085 | Location: UNITED KINGDOM | Registered: December 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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I also noticed that the box SRP (for this set at least) has been raised from the usual $84 to $99.99.
 
Posts: 2136 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: September 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond Card Talk Member
Picture of hammer
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quote:
Originally posted by WOMBLE:
quote:
Originally posted by hammer:

Seems such a waste. All that time and effort to produce a set of cards hardly anyone will see. With perfect collation you need 3 cases so there will be lots of part sets.

I can understand Rittenhouse saying that a separate 'factory set' based only on 1 episode/old film would not be viable as a separate release, but there must be a better way than how they are doing it at the moment.


I don't know - how many sets will be made? 200? then why not just sell 200 as that's what they are making but unlikely more than 100 will ever be sets - I bet there would be takers.
 
Posts: 12066 | Location: England | Registered: September 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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At the risk of repeating myself, you guys are both right and you are both missing the point.

It's not about completing these large and limited chase sets. It's about appearing to add to the value of boxes and cases in a relatively cheap way because collectors are screaming about $8.00 base sets that can be constructed from every box.

It's not that card manufacturers are not trying to respond to customer complaints and improve these products for serious card collectors. It's that some of the improvements produce unintended consequences that collectors find worse than their original complaint.

I mean it's pretty ironic when you think about it. Non-sport base sets hold no value and are too easy to make according to collectors. So the remedy is to produce chase sets and parallel sets that regular folks can't afford to complete, but the 2 or 3 cards you get in a box is supposed to support the cost. Plus you now have sets in titles that you want to collect, only you can't touch them and the fact that they are holding their value does absolutely nothing for you because you don't own them. Big Grin

Here's a radical idea. Lower the box cost. Put fewer hits in the product and see if it sells through. If the cards are good and the title popular it just might work.
 
Posts: 9441 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of STCardGeek
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I'm not taking a stand on the pros and cons of the larger insert sets. I mean, everyone is entitled to opinions on the current and future status of the hobby and I totally appreciate that casual collectors are frustrated. What amazes me is no one has said..hey...no parallels!
The last few year's collections have been heavy with parallels. Multi-tiers of them. There was alot of frustration and even some of my long time master set clients began shaving off certain tiers of parallels. Here's a set where there aren't any and yet, we remain dissatisfied. That just seems a shame.

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Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of STCardGeek
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quote:
Originally posted by Logan:
I also noticed that the box SRP (for this set at least) has been raised from the usual $84 to $99.99.

Yes, there was a price increase, though RA said it was for just this set (at least so far)

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Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:
Here's a set where there aren't any and yet, we remain dissatisfied. That just seems a shame.


Lynn, I think it depends on how you look at it. I could care less about a parallel set because to me it's the same card. It has some foil, or it has a number, or a different color, or a rainbow, or a shine. Big deal to me. Others may feel differently because the parallel is more limited and holds more value. That is a very valid opinion. I'm just not concerned about increased future value. I would rather have the cards I like, even if it is the cheap version.

These types of chase sets in Bond and in ST 50th Anniversary are different because they are complete sets and they are large enough to be their own product. I can certainly see where collectors of those titles would feel dissatisfied if they are shut out of getting sets that they would like to own.

I think that is the issue, but like I said, it is a result of things that collectors have asked for. This is a hobby and people should enjoy it as such. It does no good for collectors to demand more value when you effectively shut yourself out of the product.
 
Posts: 9441 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
You raise some interesting points, I don't think I've ever heard the term "factory set" used in a non-sport card content.

Raven, factory sets used to be quite common for non-sports cards, but that was back when we went after base sets and there weren't any inserts besides occasional stickers or (later) chromiums etc. And some series were released only as boxed or wrapped "factory sets." Sometimes a manufacturer would sell primarily in packs but have a wrapper offer for a factory set.

I haven't seen this in the Hobby market for quite a long time. I guess you're right that this gives the dealers something to do, to make base sets and mini-master sets, and the marketplace is 98% based on the "hits."

Through the 1990s when you had a set that was only 50 or 90 or 100 base cards, there was a legitimate market niche for a "complete" factory set. Before the internet, the only way some collectors found cards was from opened boxes of loose packs or a retail store's stock near the checkout aisle. I think that full-box sales (where you would usually expect to find decent collation and 3-5 base sets inside) drew the hobbyists away.

There were occasional factory sets that had a single hit included, like a full base set plus one signed card, or several "bonus" cards. They didn't seem to be all that popular.
 
Posts: 2424 | Location: North Augusta, SC, USA | Registered: November 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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Thanks for the clarification allender. I didn't know that there was a history of factory sets in non-sport because I am kind of late to the game, even though I have collected cards most of my life. I wish I had been paying attention to non-sport cards in the 90s, but I was chasing sports cards and mainly sports autographs. I passed on an awful lot of good non-sport cards and comic based autographs, but I didn't know back then that I would want them now. Big Grin

I converted completely to non-sport around 2001, so I guess by that time non-sport had evolved away from the manufacturer produced factory set and into the get it from a dealer or case breaker off the internet method.

But as to what you mentioned about a full set with one hit or several bonus cards being called a factory set, well isn't that pretty much what Breygent had renamed their premium box products, like The Tudors and the early Dexter? I loved those little boxes because there were no duplicate cards and the ones from a few years ago were a lot cheaper to buy than the traditional boxes of the time.
 
Posts: 9441 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond Card Talk Member
Picture of hammer
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
At the risk of repeating myself, you guys are both right and you are both missing the point. .


Trust me Raven, I am not missing the point, I fully understand the perceived added value but for a card company to go to so much trouble to produce a 70 card set very few people will see is , in my opinion, daft and stupid. I also dislike parallels. I don't know the answer but there must be a way that the companies, with very clever people, can find a way of "adding value" without turning people off!
 
Posts: 12066 | Location: England | Registered: September 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of WOMBLE
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quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:
... What amazes me is no one has said..hey...no parallels!
... Here's a set where there aren't any and yet, we remain dissatisfied. That just seems a shame.


Parallels only come into play if you are buying sealed boxes or ordering a master set, there 'seems' to be less and less people doing that today. Don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to see what Rittenhouse are going to do throughout Star Trek's 50th Anniversary year, and will likely pick up the base sets, but I seriously doubt I will ever buy a sealed box again from Rittenhouse.
 
Posts: 1085 | Location: UNITED KINGDOM | Registered: December 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of WOMBLE
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A few pics are now up on Rittenhouse's site.

http://www.scifihobby.com/products/startrek/tos50/
 
Posts: 1085 | Location: UNITED KINGDOM | Registered: December 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They must have been working on this for a while. Since they have Leonard Nimoy, Yvonne Craig and Grace Lee Whitney signatures on the cards. All of whom sadly passed this year.
 
Posts: 526 | Location: nj | Registered: April 22, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by ts:
They must have been working on this for a while. Since they have Leonard Nimoy, Yvonne Craig and Grace Lee Whitney signatures on the cards. All of whom sadly passed this year.


RA always has signers autograph multiple cards at the same time and then holds the groups back until they decide which product or season they should be seeded in. It works for them because they have standardized their signature card formats, like the numbering in Star Trek or the layouts of full bleed, bordered or blue in GoT.

We could be seeing new autographs of deceased actors who signed for RA for some while yet and that's not a bad thing.
 
Posts: 9441 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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