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Ebay authenticity program
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Platinum Card Talk Member
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Interesting interview -- thanks for posting it.
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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Many vague statements in that article. Means made it sound like sellers need to submit their high dollar cards for authentication to prevent them from getting their envelopes confused and mixing up their buyers. Must have been a lot of that going around or something. Big Grin

There is a list of non-sport cards, mainly certified autographs, that will hit automatic authenticity requirements right away, but it's short compared to what you could find in sports cards. Also graded sports cards are going to jump in right away. Means is promising that there won't be a backlog, even though he admits it all has to be evaluated. I don't know how he thinks the volume won't overwhelm CSG when it has overwhelmed everyone else once it gets going. Unless all they are doing is sealing and repackaging shipments, which is not what most people would expect when you use the word authentication.

Sellers are not going to like this, as there is really no advantage to it for them whatsoever. Buyers won't like it if it takes too long to get the items or if they had their own ideas of how they wanted to store their cards that won't work once they pass through the authenticity program. Means mentioned graded cards, but left it open as to what happens when a card is already slabbed.

So this will just be by eBay's rules and if you don't like it, leave.
 
Posts: 9535 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Hedgehog Witch
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Yeah, very vague in places!

So it sounds like each card that passes the authority in the "broom cupboard authentication room" Big Grin gets a specific passed code for the card. Fine, just like grading. But if the card is sold on in the future, it has to go through the process again...so their code on the original process means nothing?! Big Grin

Yeah, it's not going to be free for very long. The first part of the article mentioning the millions/billions bought and sold just read as "ebay wants a bigger slice of that lucrative pie...and we'll get it any way we can and tie it up in compulsory rules of our own making."

I also laughed about making sure sellers put the right card in the right envelope. LOL Big Grin
 
Posts: 376 | Location: UK | Registered: March 13, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of Will
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
So this will just be by eBay's rules and if you don't like it, leave.


This sums it up in a nutshell. eBay decides how the market will be handled, and we can either get along or move along. I am very thankful that my budget will not allow for purchases of a $750 card, or even a $250 card for that matter. We all know it won't remain free, and sellers will end up shouldering the cost. Which, of course, means the buyers will end up paying more, eBay gets more, etc. The two main people in the transaction, namely the buyer and the seller, are just secondary to the whole thing.
 
Posts: 1443 | Location: Prairieville, LA | Registered: May 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Other sites are looking for workarounds to this -- for example selling cards in lots instead of individually. People have suggested even including a common card with the high end card to be able to call it a 'lot.' I'm not sure if that will get around the required authentication or not, but as a buyer I see sellers trying to circumvent authentication as a huge red flag.
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of STCardGeek
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Trying to stop ebay from taking my card, slabbing into their holder, shipping it twice, adding in time and cost AGAINST mine and possibly the buyer's wishes isn't so much a red flag as desperation. No one company should get to make all the rules. It's a surprise to me Ebay doesn't get monitored more to make sure they're being reasonable.

____________________
Star Trek cards rule, everything else drools.
 
Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Hedgehog Witch
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I'm wondering if you sold under a different category, because all those sub categories you have to tick as a seller of trading cards(including grading info) wouldn't appear if you weren't selling in that section. So the description could still be what it is, but instead of trading cards it could be sold under 'sci-fi' or 'fantasy, myth & magic' or 'TV and Films' or 'movie memorabilia', where the sub categories aren't so anally retentive and feature things like just statues or photos etc. A lot of people search for an item by words not category. Or are the 'ebay dictatorship police' going to pick up on every listing like that?
 
Posts: 376 | Location: UK | Registered: March 13, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:
Trying to stop ebay from taking my card, slabbing into their holder, shipping it twice, adding in time and cost AGAINST mine and possibly the buyer's wishes isn't so much a red flag as desperation. No one company should get to make all the rules. It's a surprise to me Ebay doesn't get monitored more to make sure they're being reasonable.


While I can see it being annoying I'm not sure what is so bad about authentication services that a seller would be 'desperate' to avoid it in most cases.
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of STCardGeek
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I've listed my reasons, none of which have to do with trying to improperly offer a customer an inferior product. I just do not believe in the normal course of doing business, authentication is necessary. And I don't believe ebay's reasons for doing are altruistic.
The barriers to collecting are getting higher and higher. This is just another such barrier. An opt in service is one thing where the buyer wants it and is willing to pay for it....his money his choice. This is not that.

____________________
Star Trek cards rule, everything else drools.
 
Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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Unless eBay can demonstrate that its authenticity program increases the price a seller will get for that card, there is absolutely no benefit for a seller. It will take longer to complete the transaction until the actual buyer gets it, you have to worry about it getting lost going to CSG, in CSG, shipping to the buyer from CSG, what CSG may say, who the heck CSG even is, and eventually, how much more you are going to pay in fees for something that won't remain free.

As a buyer, if the eBay authenticity program is not providing an absolute guaranty of authenticity and quality in the form of some type of grading that can be carried for the life of the item, even when changing hands, then what good is it?

It's easy to see why this is not welcome by anyone and people will try to keep their cards away from it until the process can be proven to be better than what already exists without adding unnecessary risks.
 
Posts: 9535 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:
The barriers to collecting are getting higher and higher. This is just another such barrier. An opt in service is one thing where the buyer wants it and is willing to pay for it....his money his choice. This is not that.


I'm curious how this is a barrier to collecting. Right now this is no cost to anyone -- if that changes in the future let's talk about a cost barrier then, but realistically for people spending $750 or even $250 on a card a fee for authentication isn't going to be a barrier.

While I can understand some annoyance, and there certainly are some wrinkles to be removed -- if this is successful in getting counterfeit cards off the site that is a net positive to everyone in the hobby.
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Bronze Card Talk Member
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I have not really taken in what is going to happen regarding this new money grabbing idea that E Bay is going to bring in
Dose it not say that graded cards will also have to also have to be certified
If so you will have to pay again for something that you have already paid to someone to certify your card .
Are these cards going to be slabbed or eye type inspected inserted into card holders with a Razor Rittenhouse type of seal
Not good enough
Also with Sports Cards it seems that prices fluctuate daily by the time the card gets to be graded it could of fallen below the threshold thus not need to be graded
There is a lot to be sorted out here and E Bay can only see this as another way to collect fees wich by now all their fees must add up to nearly %50 of a sale.
I have not read the Blowout comments about this yet but can imagine what will be going on over there with some of the bigger sellers
I am sure that if this goes ahead it eventually come back to bite E Bay in the B-m
 
Posts: 726 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: November 22, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of STCardGeek
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:
The barriers to collecting are getting higher and higher. This is just another such barrier. An opt in service is one thing where the buyer wants it and is willing to pay for it....his money his choice. This is not that.


I'm curious how this is a barrier to collecting. Right now this is no cost to anyone -- if that changes in the future let's talk about a cost barrier then, but realistically for people spending $750 or even $250 on a card a fee for authentication isn't going to be a barrier.

While I can understand some annoyance, and there certainly are some wrinkles to be removed -- if this is successful in getting counterfeit cards off the site that is a net positive to everyone in the hobby.


I think the odds of them not charging for this service are so low as to be zero so I am going with the assumption they will charge. Smile And I doubt it'll be cheap considering they are sending it two day shipping (or expedited at least) I'll apologize later if that proves wrong.
I also get the idea that perhaps $750 is reasonable price point, but $250? And do we have any statistics here that says this is a big deal? I'd be interested in that cause I just can't wrap my head around this being anything more than a cash grab. Trading card selling fees are 12.something percent. That's high. ANd then whatever their managed shipping fee is and of course 10% shipping. And part of the sales tax they collect for us.
At what point does it become not worth the effort?
And Rittenhouse....they watermark their auto cards. That should count for something...
And the article that I read that sometimes a seller goofs and sends two buyers the wrong card (as in reverses the envelopes). Thanks, ebay for thinking I wouldn't fix that on my own and need them to take care of it.....

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Star Trek cards rule, everything else drools.
 
Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of STCardGeek
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As far as a barrier...I just had a client I've known since the 90's decide to end his collecting beyond filling holes and only OFF ebay. Why? Cause an ebay purchase of $180 worth of cards cost him $118 in shipping, VAT and whatever their other fees are. Had his purchase qualified for this 'service', lord knows what his total woulda been. He's beyond frustrated and I'm frustrated for him. Back when I was sending him cards in 'those days', postage was .78 cents.

____________________
Star Trek cards rule, everything else drools.
 
Posts: 4241 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:
I think the odds of them not charging for this service are so low as to be zero so I am going with the assumption they will charge. Smile And I doubt it'll be cheap considering they are sending it two day shipping (or expedited at least) I'll apologize later if that proves wrong.
I also get the idea that perhaps $750 is reasonable price point, but $250? And do we have any statistics here that says this is a big deal? I'd be interested in that cause I just can't wrap my head around this being anything more than a cash grab. Trading card selling fees are 12.something percent. That's high. ANd then whatever their managed shipping fee is and of course 10% shipping. And part of the sales tax they collect for us.
At what point does it become not worth the effort?
And Rittenhouse....they watermark their auto cards. That should count for something...
And the article that I read that sometimes a seller goofs and sends two buyers the wrong card (as in reverses the envelopes). Thanks, ebay for thinking I wouldn't fix that on my own and need them to take care of it.....


eBay fees have always been high. There are several alternatives, but few get much traction. I even coded and hosted an alternative which saw very little use -- as much as people complain about eBay sellers have never embraced an alternative. Now eBay is building platforms/systems that help retain buyers -- especially profitable high end buyers.

Even if there is a $25 authentication fee -- that isn't going to be a barrier to someone paying $250 for a trading card.

There are definitely counterfeit cards out there, and as prices have risen more counterfeit cards are selling in the $250+ price range. There are no statistics on how many are out there because few people are looking in to it. I've spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars researching and hosting a website largely dedicated to counterfeit cards I found clear evidence of counterfeit cards -- and had manufacturers identifying counterfeits of their cards (even ones with watermarks) -- unfortunately the site became a burden and as I slowed collecting eventually was no longer worth my time and effort.
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:

I've spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars researching and hosting a website largely dedicated to counterfeit cards I found clear evidence of counterfeit cards -- and had manufacturers identifying counterfeits of their cards (even ones with watermarks) -- unfortunately the site became a burden and as I slowed collecting eventually was no longer worth my time and effort.


Is this site still online? If it has gone away, is it available on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine?
 
Posts: 1805 | Location: Huntsville, AL United States | Registered: November 30, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mullins:

Is this site still online? If it has gone away, is it available on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine?


No, the site is gone. Parts of it have been indexed by the Wayback machine, but not a complete archive.
 
Posts: 5211 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of promoking
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I think this is a wonderful idea that Ebay has come up with. First, no one will have to submit their cards to PSA or Beckett etc.. and wait months to get the results back in order to list the item for sale. Second, legitimate sellers can list a card at whatever amount they want and buyers don't have to wonder whether they're buying a dud because they're protected! Now sellers with cards worth over $750 can have the backing of Ebay when listing their expensive cards without spending the money to get them graded. It's a win/win for buyer and seller. It's a genius move on Ebay's part!

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Posts: 947 | Location: San Jose, Costa Rica | Registered: May 22, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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Not exactly. As that interview with Means currently states, the eBay authenticity program isn't a grading service. So, while it may help to confirm a general description for a buyer and that's a good thing, it won't provide a grade or replace PSA or Beckett at this point.

It would have to be accepted as a good-enough, watered down standard by buyers and the real grading services would not stand for that to happen without a fight. Furthermore, the authenticity process would need to be redone every time the item is sold on eBay. They haven't figured out how they will handle the sale of already slabbed and graded cards yet

There's going to be a lot that changes about this once it actually starts to roll out and the conflicts pop up.
 
Posts: 9535 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of promoking
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raven:
Not exactly. As that interview with Means currently states, the eBay authenticity program isn't a grading service. So, while it may help to confirm a general description for a buyer and that's a good thing, it won't provide a grade or replace PSA or Beckett at this point."

Agreed! However, for people who are averse to having cards graded, such as myself, yet own cards that might sell for over $750, it's a great alternative. Before this program, buyers from the run of the mill sellers, and not from the Probsteins of Ebay, would IMHO have to think very hard before plunking down that kind of change on a card from a seller with less than multiple thousands of stars.

Now, at least, there's a way to minimize the risk for the buyer and puts sellers on par with each other. There are probably untold numbers of sellers, again including myself, who would previously not have listed their rare ungraded cards for "real money" on Ebay due to the legitimate concern that no serious buyers would step up to the proverbial plate when a seller has little proven record. I barely have over 1,000 stars(and proud of them!), as compared to the "Power Sellers" with hundreds of thousands of stars, and wouldn't necessarily have been taken seriously by, for example, listing a card for $10,000. Now, a casual seller can list his/her rarer cards without having to worry about that aspect of selling which, by far, is the most concerning to discriminating buyers. If a buyer can afford to buy a single card for $750 or more, then money is usually not going to be a major concern for him or her, but preoccupation with the authenticity of the item will surely always be. That is what Ebay is attempting to overcome. In addition, once a card has passed muster with Ebay, it will have obtained a certain stature and should be able to compete with the grading companies' standards albeit not on the same minute level. There will still be room for the grading system and Ebay's new policy will afford some peace of mind to the buyer and allow some new treasures to surface on Ebay.

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Posts: 947 | Location: San Jose, Costa Rica | Registered: May 22, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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