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Ebay authenticity program
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Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:
I can be as unhappy as I want to but if there isn't a group effort to NOT use ebay, it fails.
So what you'd be saying is our option is to quit which I am highly considering at the end of 2022. And I'd be quitting cause ebay is treating me as a cheater.


As regards "group effort", one new thing that may have a big impact on eBay sellers besides the authenticity program is the changes in tax reporting going into effect for the next tax filing.

Nothing changed for the 2021 tax returns, but in 2022 eBay sellers are going to be hit with revised 1099 reporting, whatever they may be. It's not clear yet, but the IRS wants a better reporting of sales profits from online items so that it can get more tax on income. That's the bottom line and how it is implemented and what you need to document your sales may just cause one of those "group effort" exits.

It's something to keep an eye on anyway and eBay sellers will have to keep both eyes on it. Wink
 
Posts: 9432 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
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What I've noticed about some Ebay sellers with cards is that they are stating that they don't know anything about grading. They are just selling a collection they picked up or parting out "for a friend." They add all sales are final. It's either an attempt to absolve themselves of responsibility ("Oh, I didn't know") or a real lack of understanding what "excellent" means in card grading. It's not that hard to see a worn corner or chipped edges. If they didn't know a worn corner made a difference then why take photos from weird angles that don't give a clear shot at one or more corners? If they don't answer a request for additional views, move on.
 
Posts: 3375 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of STCardGeek
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
quote:
Originally posted by STCardGeek:

And I'd be quitting cause ebay is treating me as a cheater.


You seem to be taking this very personally.



I am, just like in middle school when we all had to write "I will not talk in class" cause Karen won't shut up about her new crush.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: STCardGeek,

____________________
Star Trek cards rule, everything else drools.
 
Posts: 4240 | Location: Pittsboro, NC USA | Registered: November 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of promoking
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I remember Karen. she had a huge crush on me!
Lol

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Posts: 922 | Location: San Jose, Costa Rica | Registered: May 22, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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One big benefit for me as a buyer to this program is that I will now start to consider buying cards from overseas. I generally avoid buying expensive cards from overseas due to concerns with counterfeits.
 
Posts: 5162 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of Raj
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
One big benefit for me as a buyer to this program is that I will now start to consider buying cards from overseas. I generally avoid buying expensive cards from overseas due to concerns with counterfeits.


Does it apply worldwide or just within the USA?
I had a quick read through the details and I didn't see anything saying it was USA specific but there wasn't anything to say that it was worldwide.
Since the graders are in the US, I don't imagine any sellers in the rest of the world will appreciate sending cards to the USA if they're going to someone local to them.
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Luton, UK | Registered: October 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by Raj:
Does it apply worldwide or just within the USA?
I had a quick read through the details and I didn't see anything saying it was USA specific but there wasn't anything to say that it was worldwide.
Since the graders are in the US, I don't imagine any sellers in the rest of the world will appreciate sending cards to the USA if they're going to someone local to them.


It's just for the USA right now. It's mentioned in the FAQ section. Even US territories like Puerto Rico are excluded.

Opening this up worldwide would be difficult and I would think might require in-country authentication centers.
 
Posts: 9432 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Raj:
Does it apply worldwide or just within the USA?
I had a quick read through the details and I didn't see anything saying it was USA specific but there wasn't anything to say that it was worldwide.
Since the graders are in the US, I don't imagine any sellers in the rest of the world will appreciate sending cards to the USA if they're going to someone local to them.


I thought it was all items shipped to the US, but you are right, it is unclear.
 
Posts: 5162 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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Rather than start a new thread, did you all get the email from eBay about its new "Vault"? More services you didn't ask for, more fees, woopie for them. Wink

Looks like this is the next step up from its "authenticity program" and I would say its modeled along the lines of COMC's storage and shipping. The part I saw just mentioned graded cards though.

I'm not involved anyway, but I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to store their cards of any significant value with any third-party servicer, except if it's just on a platform waiting to be purchased by someone else. I don't want my cards in anybody's shoebox but my own. Big Grin
 
Posts: 9432 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
Rather than start a new thread, did you all get the email from eBay about its new "Vault"? More services you didn't ask for, more fees, woopie for them. Wink

Looks like this is the next step up from its "authenticity program" and I would say its modeled along the lines of COMC's storage and shipping. The part I saw just mentioned graded cards though.

I'm not involved anyway, but I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to store their cards of any significant value with any third-party servicer, except if it's just on a platform waiting to be purchased by someone else. I don't want my cards in anybody's shoebox but my own. Big Grin


The 'vault' is a page taken direct from the PWCC playbook. In fact, all these recent trading card changes remind of PWCC - either because of their alleged shenanigans or to mimic them. I can't tell which. Big Grin Maybe since they kicked them off their platform eBay is looking to fill that void and now become them. Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 2135 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: September 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I saw on Facebook today where a prominent collector got a refund because a pack-pulled Tom Felton autographed card failed authentication.
 
Posts: 1775 | Location: Huntsville, AL United States | Registered: November 30, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
I saw on Facebook today where a prominent collector got a refund because a pack-pulled Tom Felton autographed card failed authentication.


Interesting, but how should that be interpreted?

The prominent collector got a refund, so that is the buyer who can't say one way or the other, but the transaction is cancelled.

The seller says its pack pulled, so that means it must be authentic. Yet eBay rejects it for failing its authentication.

We are left with either a seller who is mistaken and/or lying about the card or an eBay authentication that has been botched.

So which is it? Up to the seller to proceed further I would think, but I'd like to know the outcome just out of curiosity.
 
Posts: 9432 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
I saw on Facebook today where a prominent collector got a refund because a pack-pulled Tom Felton autographed card failed authentication.


I'd be curious to see a link to the auction if you have one -- I'd like to save the scan and start a library of images of cards that eBay has rejected.

A buyer on Blowout said he had the same thing happen with a Michael Gambon Potter autograph.

I'm curious what happens to the seller when this happens. Do they keep the money? Get the questionable card back? Lose both the card and the money? I would guess either they keep the money or get the card back otherwise eBay is opening themselves up to lawsuits. Further if eBay returns a card they deem not authentic I would guess that could open them up to some liability as well if someone down the road gets taken by purchasing a card eBay rejected.

I'm not surprised this is happening. I was writing about counterfeits in the hobby over a decade ago.
 
Posts: 5162 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
I saw on Facebook today where a prominent collector got a refund because a pack-pulled Tom Felton autographed card failed authentication.


I'd be curious to see a link to the auction if you have one -- I'd like to save the scan and start a library of images of cards that eBay has rejected.


The photos in this auction match the ones posted in the Facebook post.
 
Posts: 1775 | Location: Huntsville, AL United States | Registered: November 30, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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Hmmmmm....sig looks like others that have passed authentication.

Looks like he has a pre-order for signed books that are supposed to come out in October.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mykdude,
 
Posts: 4172 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
I saw on Facebook today where a prominent collector got a refund because a pack-pulled Tom Felton autographed card failed authentication.


I'd be curious to see a link to the auction if you have one -- I'd like to save the scan and start a library of images of cards that eBay has rejected.


The photos in this auction match the ones posted in the Facebook post.


Thanks, Bill.

Saved the scans. . . It is too bad they are so low resolution it is really impossible to see details.
 
Posts: 5162 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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There really isn't enough info given here about the rejection. That's a certified ArtBox autograph card.

Did it fail because eBay's authenticator wouldn't verify the signature, or because the whole card was deemed a counterfeit? Were there known blank copies of this card? Could a bad signature be placed on a blank, genuine card?

If the card was truly pack pulled, it must be authentic, so that would fall back on the reputation of the seller, if he/she stands by that story. On the other hand, if eBay authenticators know that this card has been signature forged or counterfeited before, they are going to be extra careful.

So far we don't know if the problem is the card, the autograph, or both the card and the autograph. We don't even know if we have the right scan or stock examples, but if the signature looks like other samples and the card is genuine, that is the worst case scenario. A nice forgery on an authentic licensed card.

That would cause every one of them to be suspect and maybe get the card flagged by handwriting experts. But we don't know that, just like we don't know what eBay actually does with the rejected cards.

If they confiscate or destroy them, they are liable for any mistakes. If they return them unmarked to the seller, they are redistributing counterfeits or forgeries that will be sold again. I think they have to return the cards as is and probably will remove the seller once they have a certain number of rejections recorded, but I don't know either. Going by past history, eBay isn't going to be disclosing a lot about its authenticity program's internal workings and I doubt there will be any public accusations released to identify anyone, as that could cause more legal challenges than they would want.
 
Posts: 9432 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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One FB commenter said "It may not have passed due to condition of the card." Another said "About 7 years ago, very accurate fake Tom Brady auto RC’s started hitting eBay from overseas. That was when the authentic cards were selling for $1000 or so. With the value of these HP cards I was worried it wouldn’t be long before fakes showed up. Not saying it is, but it’s probably coming"
So it's all speculation at this point.
If I was the seller I'd be pretty PO'ed right now. At a minimum, they've lost a sale and been marked as selling fake goods by ebay.
 
Posts: 1775 | Location: Huntsville, AL United States | Registered: November 30, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
One FB commenter said "It may not have passed due to condition of the card."


Oh yeah, I hadn't thought about that, but another part of this program is simply that the item is described properly and has to fall close to whatever condition is noted by the seller.

However when it's not a graded card, we all know that the perception of a card's condition changes depending on who is doing the viewing. Sellers always think a card looks better than it is, and buyers frequently think it looks worse. Big Grin

But if the rejection was for condition, then that prominent collector certainly should have said that before people started throwing around the word "fake". There is a really big difference between a seller rating up a condition level or two, and a seller peddling a counterfeit card. One is puffery and the other is criminal.

I also kind of think that eBay wouldn't torpedo a big sale based solely on a minor condition discrepancy, unless the card's taped together. Wink
 
Posts: 9432 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
One FB commenter said "It may not have passed due to condition of the card." Another said "About 7 years ago, very accurate fake Tom Brady auto RC’s started hitting eBay from overseas. That was when the authentic cards were selling for $1000 or so. With the value of these HP cards I was worried it wouldn’t be long before fakes showed up. Not saying it is, but it’s probably coming"
So it's all speculation at this point.
If I was the seller I'd be pretty PO'ed right now. At a minimum, they've lost a sale and been marked as selling fake goods by ebay.


I think the link you posted above is correct based on the photos. . .

Unless I am missing something that eBay listing doesn't make any claims to the condition of the card at all, except to say it is 'used' and went from a pack to a top loader.
 
Posts: 5162 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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