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Silver Card Talk Member
posted
There's been a growing trend for auction sellers to call every card "used" even if it was freshly pulled from a pack. Ebay's policy is that "new" items must be in original unopened box/packaging.

But I see this statement in PayPal's revised legal agreements: "We are excluding items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, from reimbursement eligibility under our Purchase Protection Program."

I'm wondering whether either buyers or sellers think this will have an impact. Maybe it already has, but I haven't had any recent experience with PPP.
 
Posts: 2373 | Location: North Augusta, SC, USA | Registered: November 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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Happy to see someone reads those revised legal agreements. Most people do not because it makes no difference really, you have to agree or else you can't use the system.

Yes I suppose any card, once opened from a pack, might be technically considered used. Hence the trend you are seeing. I'm not sure I would agree that the "used" part has an impact on the PPP though.

What might have an impact is that wording "We are excluding items intended for resale . . ." Are trading cards officially considered as "intended for resale"? They are of course resold, as there is a secondary market for them, but they are just as easily kept by the first buyer/collector. Lots of things are resold, but the manufacturer doesn't necessarily make them with the idea of resale.

Card manufacturers in particular make a point of saying they don't care about market value, all like hits are essentially equal to them. That is in theory, they understand their value to be sure, but once they sell the product the demand sets the price and the maker is out of it. That still doesn't mean that trading cards are made specifically for resale, especially the majority that are lucky if they get sold the first time around. Big Grin

So I'm just thinking that there are different ways to interpret that line about excluding items and that its less a matter of new vs. used than it is whether resale is considered the purpose of buying trading cards under PPP.
 
Posts: 7776 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of monsterwax
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Wow. If eBay is adding that language so they can weasel out of paying lost claims on trading cards, Pez containers, collector coins, etc, all the stuff that got them started, that would REALLY be slimy. So slimy, it would even be beneath THEM (and that's saying a lot). I hope it is not the truth, but the next time someone tries to make a really big claim, I have a bad feeling we're going to find out the ugly truth.

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Posts: 386 | Location: Tallahassee, FL | Registered: April 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of Scifi Cards
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These are 2 separate issues, IMO.

The "Used" category is probably correct for everything but sealed product. It is what it is. As a seller it actually gives me some leeway if someone were to file a "not as described" claim on a single card.

The PayPal Protection thing is completely different as PayPal and eBay are separate now. eBay is actually moving everyone away from PayPal soon. All sellers will have to use eBay's managed payments. I'm not sure if buyers will still have the PayPal option, but it won't go into my PayPal account as eBay handles the payment and then deposits the funds into my bank account.

So, PayPal won't protect you if you buy to resell? Interesting. I have an eBay account just for selling and buying to resell, and I'm tax exempt because of that. So, anything bought on that account wouldn't have PayPal protection. Good catch, I missed that one. But not sure if it makes much different with the changes eBay is making.

It does make a difference if I'm using PayPal to buy sealed product from suppliers though. That's going to stop if there is zero protection.

Most interesting.

Ed

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Posts: 4687 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: March 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by Scifi Cards:
These are 2 separate issues, IMO.

The "Used" category is probably correct for everything but sealed product. It is what it is. As a seller it actually gives me some leeway if someone were to file a "not as described" claim on a single card.

The PayPal Protection thing is completely different as PayPal and eBay are separate now. eBay is actually moving everyone away from PayPal soon. All sellers will have to use eBay's managed payments. I'm not sure if buyers will still have the PayPal option, but it won't go into my PayPal account as eBay handles the payment and then deposits the funds into my bank account.

So, PayPal won't protect you if you buy to resell? Interesting. I have an eBay account just for selling and buying to resell, and I'm tax exempt because of that. So, anything bought on that account wouldn't have PayPal protection. Good catch, I missed that one. But not sure if it makes much different with the changes eBay is making.

It does make a difference if I'm using PayPal to buy sealed product from suppliers though. That's going to stop if there is zero protection.

Most interesting.

Ed


Well this could get real complicated, real fast. When it comes to buyer protection, if Paypal and eBay decide to use different rules, buyers are going to have to get off of Paypal. It makes no sense to make a protection claim that would be honored under eBay's buyer protection, but is somehow denied under Paypal's PPP. Paypal is the one who reverses the transaction and refunds the money. If they deny the claim because they have excluded an item they feel may be intended for resale, what difference does it make if eBay would have approved the claim under their payment system? Or vice versa?

That Paypal agrrement line is misleading and perhaps the full discloseure makes it clearer. It says "We are excluding items intended for resale". It doesn't say how they know they are intended for resale. Are they looking at activity on tax exempt seller accounts only? Are they looking at a broader view of "collectables" that have an established secondary market? Might it exclude claims from both buyers and sellers, or only one end of the transaction? If I bought a case of a card product from a power seller through Paypal and then filed a claim of non-receipt, might the claim be denied by Paypal because I might be assumed to be buying to sell some of those cards myself? Who are we basing this determination of exclusion on, the buyer, the seller or the item?

Yeah, it is most interesting. Wink

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,
 
Posts: 7776 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
That Paypal agrrement line is misleading and perhaps the full discloseure makes it clearer. It says "We are excluding items intended for resale". It doesn't say how they know they are intended for resale. Are they looking at activity on tax exempt seller accounts only?

I didn't see any related disclosures and the term resale isn't defined elsewhere on their site. Our local Salvation Army runs its "Resale Store". There are companies that specialize in certifying provenance on designer sneakers and such. I thought maybe it was timed for Ticketmaster type transactions. Digital music and videos. Timeshares. Companies that buy wholesale lots of 100 new computer cables that they plan to sell individually.

It's the vagueness that bothered me. Other parts of the PPP say they don't cover something "except in the case of a non-receipt complaint." It's mostly used to protect buyers, so if anybody is affedcted adversely, it might be the sellers.

I remember my X.Com account before it merged, renamed itself PayPal, then sold itself to eBay. It was fascinating to recall that the sale to eBay made the first big bunch of money for X.Com's founder ... a guy named Elon Musk. He plowed a bunch of the dough into another company he had just founded, SpaceX. Maybe we'd be on Mars today if he hadn't distracted himself with Tesla.
 
Posts: 2373 | Location: North Augusta, SC, USA | Registered: November 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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How does all this affect those promo cards that state "not for resale".

regards

John

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Posts: 1607 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: October 14, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Hi John,

I have promos that say "Not for Sale" or "For Review Only" but I think that is just a declaration that the cards are not products for sale by the manufacturer.

Of course, all kinds of things that were originally produced as advertising (signs, posters, calendars, etc.) have become products (collectibles) secondarily long after their original purpose. I can't imagine Ebay would allow them and various other items to go uncovered by Purchase Protection. Then again, over the years I have heard that Ebay would like to shed its reputation as the world's biggest garage sale.

Jess


quote:
Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:
How does all this affect those promo cards that state "not for resale".

regards

John
 
Posts: 1312 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by catskilleagle:
Then again, over the years I have heard that Ebay would like to shed its reputation as the world's biggest garage sale.

It's been rather profitable, though. Amazon seems to be willing to take over the crown.
.
 
Posts: 2373 | Location: North Augusta, SC, USA | Registered: November 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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