quote:

There is a Christopher Lee auto on ebay right now for the Cornerstone set.

As far as i know he never signed for that set.
It could be a blank that someone got him to sign but it does not say it is.

I would be v-e-r-y careful with this one... Won't say anymore because I don't know with complete certainty.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BILLZEE,

Scan one - pack pulled


Scan 2 - Purchased from Inkworks 'outlet' Cards Direct

Scan 3 - obtained in trade from VERY reputable card talk member/dealer



Scan 4 - Bought on ebay



All of these 4 cards have the Inkworks watermark on the back....

webjon, or anyone else that is keeping track for that matter: Do you have a list of scans you need of pack pulled autos? Perhaps that would be a more direct way to know what scans to post?

I only ask because otherwise it becomes a thread of people posting scans of "best pulls" and random auto cards. In no way am I complaining because I love seeing the autos I'm missing and don't mind showing off what I have. But just trying to think of a little more organized approach is all.

Hi Jake. . .

Unfortunately with the new questionable cards popping up listing what is needed becomes a moving target. . . To do a proper comparison you need a good (high resolution) image of both a real card, and a counterfeit one.

I prefer people email the scans as high resolution scans can be used to make fake cards, so posting them online in a forum like this would be easy pickin's for a fraudster out there. I don't mind having multiple scans of a card as then I have more to compare with.

I've had trouble finding good scans of Angelina Jolie, Jessica Alba, Megan Fox and others too.

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by jane:
All of these 4 cards have the Inkworks watermark on the back....

Thank you for the scans, FYI the watermark has shown up on counterfeit cards. I've also seen the same legitimate card with and without a watermark. Unfortunately the watermark is unreliable in determining authenticity.

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

quote:

Originally posted by jane:
All of these 4 cards have the Inkworks watermark on the back....

Thank you for the scans, FYI the watermark has shown up on counterfeit cards. I've also seen the same legitimate card with and without a watermark. Unfortunately the watermark is unreliable in determining authenticity.

Jon

Well that stinks! Thanks for that info.

Hope those scans are useful to you. The Yunjin Kim cards are really difficult to distinguish, as her signature looks exactly the same every time. So did Evageline Lilly's, for the most part. I believe the Holloway I bought off of ebay is 100% real, but now I'd be hesitant to buy a card of that value w/o looking at it in person.

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Hi Jake. . .

Unfortunately with the new questionable cards popping up listing what is needed becomes a moving target. . . To do a proper comparison you need a good (high resolution) image of both a real card, and a counterfeit one.

I prefer people email the scans as high resolution scans can be used to make fake cards, so posting them online in a forum like this would be easy pickin's for a fraudster out there. I don't mind having multiple scans of a card as then I have more to compare with.

I've had trouble finding good scans of Angelina Jolie, Jessica Alba, Megan Fox and others too.

Jon

Whoops, I'll email them to you from now on

While threads about counterfeit cards and fake signatures are important to educate collectors and warn them of new problems with specific cards, I do believe that if definitive information is not given it just serves to scare everyone. Let's face it, with today's technology its become a lot easier to produce copies and every higher priced card is a potential target. That shouldn't mean that only the cards that you personally packed pulled are real and everything that you ever bought from anybody else is now suspect.

Its very helpful that a spotlight has been put on these particular auctions because, if they were removed, there was probably a lot wrong with them. However to extend that beyond this seller will do more harm than good in the sense that people will not trust buying any of these cards, even from highly reputable dealers.

Just wanted to throw that in before we stray too far with the very excellent points that are being made.

Interestingly I just quickly looked back at the scans I saved from the seller loveandnewyork, that has been confirmed to have sold counterfeit autographs.

I managed to get scans of their Yunjin Kim and Jennifer Garner, and in a quick look they both look identical to the Garner and Kim cards sold by savecoupon. All of the scans are on webjon -- search loveandnewyork if you're curious.

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:
Hi Jake. . .

Unfortunately with the new questionable cards popping up listing what is needed becomes a moving target. . . To do a proper comparison you need a good (high resolution) image of both a real card, and a counterfeit one.

I prefer people email the scans as high resolution scans can be used to make fake cards, so posting them online in a forum like this would be easy pickin's for a fraudster out there. I don't mind having multiple scans of a card as then I have more to compare with.

I've had trouble finding good scans of Angelina Jolie, Jessica Alba, Megan Fox and others too.

Jon

I'll try to keep an eye open for what you're looking for or need scans of but please feel free to drop me a note anytime if you need a scan. If I have it I'll send it to you. All my high-end autos are either pack pulled or from reliable sellers that I've dealt with for a long time.

I've got both Jolie's, but no scanner. Want me to send you a digital photo of them? Or would that not be sharp enough?

quote:

Originally posted by cardaddict:
I've got both Jolie's, but no scanner. Want me to send you a digital photo of them? Or would that not be sharp enough?

Sweet, a photo will be plenty sharp, the issue with photos is typically either the flash obscures parts of the card, or the picture is taken at an angle (to avoid the flash issue), resulting in a skewed image.

Thanks,

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
While threads about counterfeit cards and fake signatures are important to educate collectors and warn them of new problems with specific cards, I do believe that if definitive information is not given it just serves to scare everyone. Let's face it, with today's technology its become a lot easier to produce copies and every higher priced card is a potential target. That shouldn't mean that only the cards that you personally packed pulled are real and everything that you ever bought from anybody else is now suspect.

Its very helpful that a spotlight has been put on these particular auctions because, if they were removed, there was probably a lot wrong with them. However to extend that beyond this seller will do more harm than good in the sense that people will not trust buying any of these cards, even from highly reputable dealers.

Just wanted to throw that in before we stray too far with the very excellent points that are being made.

I'd love to agree with you, but there are a lot of problems with only highlighting specific cards and auctions.

1. Not all counterfeits have been identified.
2. New counterfeits are likely to come on to the marking using different techniques.
3. Some counterfeits are nearly impossible to identify from a scan.
4. The longer it takes you to identify a counterfeit the less likely you are going to be able to get recourse for buying it.

Should all cards be 'suspect' -- no, absolutely not, that is where finding a trusted source comes in, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be vigilant.

In a perfect world counterfeits wouldn't exist. . . in a slightly less perfect world we'd have all the counterfeits identified and they'd be easy to spot. Unfortunately neither of those are the case, the only way to combat counterfeits/forgeries is through education and vigilance in identifying questionable cards.

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by webjon:

I'd love to agree with you, but there are a lot of problems with only highlighting specific cards and auctions.

Should all cards be 'suspect' -- no, absolutely not, that is where finding a trusted source comes in, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be vigilant.

In a perfect world counterfeits wouldn't exist. . . in a slightly less perfect world we'd have all the counterfeits identified and they'd be easy to spot. Unfortunately neither of those are the case, the only way to combat counterfeits/forgeries is through education and vigilance in identifying questionable cards.

Jon

Yes, yes and yes. Jon, I regularily visit your site and your insights on Card Talk have helped me and many other members save ourselves from a lot of grief. If my post seemed to make that unclear I apoligize.

What I was trying to express is that there needs to be definitive information, or at least some basic new information, to hang your hat on or people start to be suspicious about all the higher priced cards in their collections. Once anyone says "well it could be a counterfeit", its human nature that we start to wonder. If you wonder too much, you will never buy a card over $50 again.

I'm making a joke there, but I hope you get what I mean. Scans are deceptive, and certainly with autograph cards, genuine signatures should look similar. They should never look precisely alike because that's a big problem in that the human hand always has some slight variation. Autopens and artifical copies do not.

Another thing that should be considered on a certified autograph card is the card itself. If the signature is fake, is not the card? Should be, unless we are bringing up blank genuine cards that some how escaped and got forged. Sure that has happened, but how many times on cards of the caliber that we are discussing? I don't know, maybe never, maybe more than you think.

Unless there is some glaring printing error that you can see in a scan, issues like correct paper stock, surface gloss, weight, coloring, sharpness, thickness, even exact size are hard to determine. In hand such counterfeit cards may well stand out and that is the kind of information that everyone should have. Unfortunately, because we buy so much over the internet these things are often not discovered until its too late.

Sorry this post is way too long, can't really do the subject justice because there is so much more to the big picture than just scans, as you well know. Anyway keep up the good work Jon and I'll shut up on this one. At least for awhile.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,

Jon, I just emailed you a live ebay auction for a card I thought looked a little suspect. Since the seller is not the one already mentioned here, I don't want to say anything publicly without just cause(plus linking to live auctions is not allowed on CT). Just wanted to know your thoughts on this card....

A guy (w/7000+ feedback) has listed Heroes signed cards from Hayden Pannettiere & Kristen Bell. I think they are autopen. Here is the pic of the Hayden one. And you can see the dots people say are common to autopen. I am not accusing this dealer. Just want to make sure before I bid.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Heroes-HAY...f1a81a#ht_500wt_1156

quote:

Originally posted by ts:
A guy (w/7000+ feedback) has listed Heroes signed cards from Hayden Pannettiere & Kristen Bell. I think they are autopen. Here is the pic of the Hayden one. And you can see the dots people say are common to autopen. I am not accusing this dealer. Just want to make sure before I bid.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Heroes-HAY...f1a81a#ht_500wt_1156

It's normal to see a few dots when the signer lift his pen, very small. Seems authentic from the scan and ink variation/thickness

quote:

Originally posted by DavidDeb:

quote:

Originally posted by ts:
A guy (w/7000+ feedback) has listed Heroes signed cards from Hayden Pannettiere & Kristen Bell. I think they are autopen. Here is the pic of the Hayden one. And you can see the dots people say are common to autopen. I am not accusing this dealer. Just want to make sure before I bid.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Heroes-HAY...f1a81a#ht_500wt_1156

It's normal to see a few dots when the signer lift his pen, very small. Seems authentic from the scan and ink variation/thickness

Thanks...I wanted to be sure.

quote:

Originally posted by ts:
A guy (w/7000+ feedback) has listed Heroes signed cards from Hayden Pannettiere & Kristen Bell. I think they are autopen. Here is the pic of the Hayden one. And you can see the dots people say are common to autopen. I am not accusing this dealer. Just want to make sure before I bid.

This seller sells masses of Rittenhouse products so a good chance they should be O.K.