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Don Cheadle? Really?
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Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
posted
Wow! "The World's Most Trusted Source in Collecting" really dropped the ball on this one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-...b:g:N3wAAOSwmgJY2q~L
 
Posts: 3185 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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I'm assuming you don't think it looks much like his signature, right? Big Grin

Well it's a cut and it came from a Razor LLC product and says it is guaranteed by Razor. I don't think there can be any recourse from them now. While it certainly is in a Beckett holder, there really is no grade or any indication that Beckett has actually authenticated the signature. At least not that I can see, the label just describes the card.

As with all autographs, examples can vary greatly depending on where and when things get signed and the habits of the signer. If it doesn't look like a good display item to a prospective buyer, they should find another one.
 
Posts: 7649 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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As long as I have been collecting I don't do much with the slab companies. I didn't realize they slabbed without authentication.

Seems a bit of a bad practice to put your card grading and authentication name on some random slab without at least looking over. Especially when missing such an obvious signature.

The funny thing is that RAZOR was too lazy to even put a name on the back.

Even more comical is the person who signed it has several on card signatures. Wink
 
Posts: 3185 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
As long as I have been collecting I don't do much with the slab companies. I didn't realize they slabbed without authentication.


This was several years back and I can't really remember the story without trying to look it up. Maybe someone else does. Beckett holders, not exactly slabs, were used at the time for protection purposes I believe. I could be off on that, but I think all the Razor cuts came packed in the same holder. I didn't pay much attention to Razor's cuts because they are such ugly creations. I enjoyed busting Razor Ink boxes because the autograph cards were all from the sold Inkworks' inventory.

Whenever any third-party authenticator certifies an autographed card, they must state that they have specifically certified the autograph itself and not just graded the card or they can't be held responsible for a bad signature.
 
Posts: 7649 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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I have seen several of the RAZOR cut sig in the Beckett holder. I never purchased one but I always assumed they had been authenticated by the company.

Sad thing is if the seller advertises David instead of Don the label will cause confusion.

Wonder if they would fix that as it kinda makes Beckett look bad as well?
 
Posts: 3185 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Sad thing is if the seller advertises David instead of Don the label will cause confusion.


So now you've lost me. I thought you just didn't care for the look of the signature comparison.

Where does David come in? Don Cheadle was in Boogie Nights and Don is the name on the label. It's sloppy, do you think it looks like David?
 
Posts: 7649 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Sad thing is if the seller advertises David instead of Don the label will cause confusion.


So now you've lost me. I thought you just didn't care for the look of the signature comparison.

Where does David come in? Don Cheadle was in Boogie Nights and Don is the name on the label. It's sloppy, do you think it looks like David?


Haha! Thought you knew. It's David Carradine, the slab is not correct. Razz
 
Posts: 3185 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Where does David come in? Don Cheadle was in Boogie Nights and Don is the name on the label. It's sloppy, do you think it looks like David?


Haha! Thought you knew. It's David Carradine, the slab is not correct. Razz[/QUOTE]

Oh no fair, you picked that up from the "Peace", didn't you? Big Grin His autographed cards are much neater than that, but it was likely a freebie signature turned into a 1/1 masterpiece. Wink Doesn't say that much for Razor's product control though.
 
Posts: 7649 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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Tell me Grasshopper, when did you change your name to Don?

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Posts: 28036 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of Ryan Cracknell
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Wow! "The World's Most Trusted Source in Collecting" really dropped the ball on this one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-...b:g:N3wAAOSwmgJY2q~L


Before my time there, but pretty sure Beckett was not doing any sort of authentication then. BAS is actually relatively new.

Individuals and companies can have cards slabbed. The back of this particular card also notes that it's Razor who is guaranteeing the signature. Also probable the cards were submitted with pre-filled out forms.

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Posts: 1150 | Location: Nanaimo, BC | Registered: November 17, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, kinda figured this out through the posting. Still, given what Beckett has become, I would think they should be obliged to correct the label.
 
Posts: 3185 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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Have you noticed that in the last two days, since you posted your find, the item's price has dropped about $50. The description has remained the same. What's up with that? Big Grin
 
Posts: 7649 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mykdude
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
Have you noticed that in the last two days, since you posted your find, the item's price has dropped about $50. The description has remained the same. What's up with that? Big Grin


Even worse, I sent COMC a message letting them know.

Not sure but as a consignment service they might have a count down price if something doesn't sell.

Oh well, having met him plus my ALIAS sigs I guess it doesn't impact me much. Wink
 
Posts: 3185 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Oh well, having met him plus my ALIAS sigs I guess it doesn't impact me much. Wink


It would only impact a buyer who wants a certified Don Cheadle signature and might buy this one, which is now being assumed to be David Carradine. If that is the case, it's not the label that is incorrect on the Beckett holder. It's that Razor mounted the wrong cut on the card, because the back of it clearly identifies it as being Don Cheadle's signature. If it isn't, as that "Peace" inscription kind of supports since Carradine used it often, then this might be called an "error" card.

But if someone thinks their paying for Cheadle and they get a Carradine, I don't think many people would be happy when they found out. It's not even as though it were a more pricey signature. Even though Carradine is deceased, he had certified cards, and I suspect a genuine Cheadle might be harder to come by.

If you contacted COMC they should either take it down, or correct the description or tell you that you're wrong.
 
Posts: 7649 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of Raj
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As far as I can make out, it doesn't mention Don Cheadle on the card itself. On the back, it just says that it's an authentic autograph but not whose it is.
Only the Beckett case mentions Cheadle.
 
Posts: 3074 | Location: Luton, UK | Registered: October 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by Raj:
As far as I can make out, it doesn't mention Don Cheadle on the card itself. On the back, it just says that it's an authentic autograph but not whose it is.
Only the Beckett case mentions Cheadle.


Oh yeah, sorry, you're right. I thought it was in the Razor guarantee, but there is no name. It's COMC description that says Manufacturer guaranteed and Don Cheadle. So it is only the label for identification. Later products like this that came from Leaf do seem to have the name on the back.

I think this product was in 2009 and I really doubt anyone would make packaged cuts like this anymore. The opportunity to mix up both the cuts themselves, the cards and the labels in production would be too easy. Plus these Razor signature cuts were almost all terrible looking. I always thought the ones taken from personal checks came out the best.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,
 
Posts: 7649 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of Ryan Cracknell
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Yeah, kinda figured this out through the posting. Still, given what Beckett has become, I would think they should be obliged to correct the label.


If the owner of the card reaches out to them, my guess is that they would correct it. They could also contact Leaf.

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Posts: 1150 | Location: Nanaimo, BC | Registered: November 17, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Cracknell:

If the owner of the card reaches out to them, my guess is that they would correct it. They could also contact Leaf.


I would probably start with the card company as well but Panini's response to "we guarantee the signature" has collectors on the defensive. Still, in this particular situation I would think that Beckett has the most to gain by helping the card owner.

At the moment COMC seems satisfied with letting the sale roll on.
 
Posts: 3185 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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I don't believe that Panini is involved in this. A few card companies have changed hands and some still use prior acquisitions for the name recognition on certain products. Panini bought up Donruss I think more than 10 years ago.

This card was produced by Razor and the owner turned around and bought up Leaf, also around 2009. At that time Razor was closed down and not heard from again. So the card owner would have to contact Leaf, but I'm pretty sure that they would legally not be responsible for anything Razor did anyway, even if the same principle parties existed. One company is not going to carry the burden from another company that has been dissolved.

As for Beckett, only the holder belongs to them. It wasn't a good idea to let Razor use them because it creates confusion now, but if at the time Beckett wasn't authenticating autographs, they probably didn't foresee the issue.

Either way, if Leaf or Beckett gets involved it would probably be out of courtesy only. Its just like all those Certificates of Authenticity that are produced by companies that have gone out of business or can't be found or never existed. Five or ten years later when the signature turns out to be bad, you can throw out the card and the COA. Big Grin

This signature probably isn't bad, just not the person named. If the owner of the card wants to sell it and has now been informed, either he/she or COMC should correct the description. Maybe someone will like to buy it just for the error, you never know.
 
Posts: 7649 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
I don't believe that Panini is involved in this. A few card companies have changed hands and some still use prior acquisitions for the name recognition on certain products. Panini bought up Donruss I think more than 10 years ago.

This card was produced by Razor and the owner turned around and bought up Leaf, also around 2009. At that time Razor was closed down and not heard from again. So the card owner would have to contact Leaf, but I'm pretty sure that they would legally not be responsible for anything Razor did anyway, even if the same principle parties existed. One company is not going to carry the burden from another company that has been dissolved.


Sorry, my post probably was a little confusing. I was just using Panini as an example of why collectors are on the defense concerning card manufacture guarantees. Not that they have anything to do with this particular card. Still with the card being so old, I wouldn't expect much help from Leaf either.
 
Posts: 3185 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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