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Ebay: when is a win not a win?
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Diamond Card Talk Member
Picture of hammer
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A lot of the time now e-bay has "sale only" fees. Wait for one of those list it at the minimum you are willing to sell it for and see if anybody (or hopefully two people) bites. I don't know why people are willing to gamble by saving a couple of pounds on the listing
 
Posts: 11740 | Location: England | Registered: September 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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I Talked to the 3 sellers on ebay , it's Not that you won their auctions at a super low bid , it's that they just didn't like you ....lol , just kidding That sucks , better luck next time Frown

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Posts: 1176 | Location: Rochester , NY , USA | Registered: June 21, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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quote:
Originally posted by kevin LePore:

it's Not that you won their auctions at a super low bid , it's that they just didn't like you ....lol , just kidding That sucks , better luck next time Frown



well that is perfectly possible and sounds reasonable to WHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Eek Big Grin

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Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
 
Posts: 28031 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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There is another aspect or two to all of this that need to be taken into consideration. The various changes eBay have made to their fees have made it an increasingly bad idea to list anything as an auction. As a result, the vast majority of items listed on eBay are now Buy-It-Now (BIN) with Best Offer. Add to that, a number of big sellers (including at least one here in the UK) always list a large number of items as auctions with a 99p/99c starting price the day new card sets are released. As a result, anyone else who tries to run an auction listing starting at anything higher than a 99p/99c starting price simply doesn't get any bids at all.

For small sellers, the solution is to simply never, ever use auction listings. But for newcomers, in particular, they don't realise this until after a few of their listings end with a single 99p bid.

As a seller, I have never refused to sell something because it did not reach what I thought was an acceptable price when listed as an auction. But I'm perfectly happy to decline Best Offers that I consider unacceptable Smile
 
Posts: 1319 | Location: Warrington, UK | Registered: January 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of stevetrek
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Re: Second Chance Sales

Sometimes sellers do have multiples of the same item. I conduct estate sales where I often have this situation. We did a sale where the person was a locksmith. He had a lot of the same key making machines. Another person had multiple copies of sealed lp's. It is often easier to offer them as 2nd chance items then to list them again and not be certain how many bids you will receive.
 
Posts: 742 | Location: IL | Registered: February 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of promoking
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Originally posted by Studio-Hades:
"The seller is not legally bound to do anything because there is zero enforcement on the buyer side. That's a joke. It might say so in the TOS, but a buyer can even cancel after the auction is finished with 0 repercussions. Or just walk away and not pay. Maybe after doing this 25 or 50 times they *might* get suspended from eBay."

There is ZERO enforcement on the SELLER side. In the Ebay heydays, there were repercussions if a seller did not fulfill his obligation to sell the item. Now, a buyer who has been refunded the selling price and postage can't even post NEGATIVE feedback against the seller. The site won't allow it!! That is so unfair and I don't see Ebay changing that policy anytime soon because they work on volume and are much more partisan toward sellers than buyers!

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Posts: 743 | Location: fort lauderdale fl usa | Registered: May 22, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by promoking:
Originally posted by Studio-Hades:
"The seller is not legally bound to do anything because there is zero enforcement on the buyer side. That's a joke. It might say so in the TOS, but a buyer can even cancel after the auction is finished with 0 repercussions. Or just walk away and not pay. Maybe after doing this 25 or 50 times they *might* get suspended from eBay."

There is ZERO enforcement on the SELLER side. In the Ebay heydays, there were repercussions if a seller did not fulfill his obligation to sell the item. Now, a buyer who has been refunded the selling price and postage can't even post NEGATIVE feedback against the seller. The site won't allow it!! That is so unfair and I don't see Ebay changing that policy anytime soon because they work on volume and are much more partisan toward sellers than buyers!
In the eBay heydays, buyers could also receive negative feedback for transgressions. Now they can only be awarded positive feedback or no feedback at all. Feedback is now 100% in favour of buyers. It works both ways ... or at least it used to Smile
 
Posts: 1319 | Location: Warrington, UK | Registered: January 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of Logan
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As a seller I've had many situations where the buyer did not pay. When they do it on "Buy It Now"s I can live with it because there's no harm done. I can just re-list the item as it was. But not paying for an auction really makes me angry. I sold a high dollar card where literally seconds after the auction ended the "buyer" messaged me telling me they didn't want the card now and then basically gave me a command to "cancel this transaction." This was seconds after a $400 auction ended with over 40 bids. And of course I can file a non-paying buyer complaint against these types of people but I never do. I get too frightened that they'll end up paying after I open the case, and then make my life hell afterward by opening a complaint against me for "item not as described" or some other nonsense just to try to get even with me. So I always just cancel the transaction and move on while the "buyers" go unscathed. So it does go both ways. There's no guarantee that a seller will ship an item any more than there is a buyer actually paying for it. And there's nothing we can do to force either one to happen, especially with eBay just burying their heads in the sand and not willing to police their own site.
 
Posts: 1950 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: September 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of tangent
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As a seller I have honoured all sorts of low price wins. But eBay keeps on changing the fee structures and there are so few buyers for cards that listing fees can mean that the seller can actually lose money even if the card sells for a sensible price, just because it's taken so long to sell. So I can certainly understand why someone would decide not to go through with a sale.

Upshot, I temporarily have an eBay shop (limited number of free listings) while I am culling, and mostly sell with BINs so I can at least control how much I sell for. Further, I am rotating my listings so that I never exceed the free listing count. Of course, eBay have just removed their free listing software so now I can't have my listings 'stored' for rotation and have to manually list each one.

Basically eBay is great as a seller if you have high volume (eg clothes, consumables) or if you occasionally sell off random stuff lying around the house. It is an awful way to get rid of excess trading cards. But, from a buyer's perspective, it is excellent because I am able to access all sorts of cards I would never have found at US level prices instead of Australian prices.

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Trade list (mostly comics and scifi). Also lots of sketch cards.
 
Posts: 1573 | Location: temp UK, usually Australia | Registered: July 31, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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Just as a closer on this the seller who refused to send me my item has now got a negative on his account and his seller rating has been reduced to 75% by ebay.

I just hope he thinks it was worth it, i certainly never wanted anything like this to happen.

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Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
 
Posts: 28031 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of Logan
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quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
Just as a closer on this the seller who refused to send me my item has now got a negative on his account and his seller rating has been reduced to 75% by ebay.


If the seller had 100% feedback before this then in the last 12 months he/she must only have around 4 feedbacks. Even more of a reason that they should've gone through with the transaction - to save themselves that massive drop in feedback %. But then again, if they do so little selling on there they probably don't care much.
 
Posts: 1950 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: September 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Silver Card Talk Member
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I agree. I used to sell on an auction site years ago - just before they stopped allowing sellers to take checks and money orders, restricting payment only through their payment service, Paypal (the separate company really in name only). I sympathize with today's sellers. Back in the early-mid 2000's you would pay a small amount to list something for less than $5 and then more for up to $9.99 with the price going up quickly for items starting over $10. I was selling $3-10 cards and other collectibles so I started a lot of stuff for $9.99 or less. Sometimes, I scored big but usually the item sold for somewhere between the minimum and where I expected. It's more difficult for sellers now but that doesn't make reneging on a deal an acceptable alternative.

And yeah, if I run across and win a card for $2 that once sold for $50 or more, that doesn't make me a cheapskate. That makes me
lucky and/or smart to find and jump on that.

I actually got some good news on a recent BIN card lot I purchased. It came with an unusually high shipping cost - almost $10 for 5 cards. I wasn't happy with that but the BIN was low enough that I still did it. The seller messaged me that he was refunding me most of that because the actual shipping was only about $3. He added that our favorite/least favorite auction site is now charging sellers a fee for charging a shipping fee, which I assume is how it pressures sellers into offering free shipping - as if the packaging and shipping had no cost at all in time nor money.



quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
quote:
Originally posted by BILLZEE:
If I were a seller, I'd get very fed up with the losses that one risks from buyers that win an item for pennies on the dollar.

In particular I'm talking about the scrooges & cheapskates that sort items by the lowest starting bids and then throw pennies at them because the laws of probability dictate they will win a few.


I never sell anything, but I am a buyer who is very pro seller because we need good and honorable people to buy our cards from.

Having said that, any seller who feels victimized by cheap buyers has several simple solutions to chose from. Put minimum bids on your items, or sell at BINs and not auctions, or sell better items that are not going for pennies. Oftentimes sellers don't take the necessary precautions because they want lower listing fees, but then they must take the risks.

If I see a card that is worth $100 and I manage to win it for $2, I do expect to receive it. That does not make me a cheapskate, it makes me the highest bidder. If the seller is now sorry about it, that was his/her mistake.

Its not about taking sides. If you are in business you are only as good as your word. Just don't do auctions if you are going to renege because you are losing too much money. That isn't the fault of buyers who are negotiating in good faith and by the rules.
 
Posts: 1205 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Yeah, I have wondered how Ebay has been chipping away at sales since I last sold there in 2006-2007. It's bad enough to limit the payment methods down to one. Though Paypal is widely used now, a lot of older people still prefer paying by check or money order because that's the way they've always paid for mail order before. And guess what? That's who card sellers are mostly selling to.

On top of that, the old days of two guys shooting it out til the last second are mostly done. A few months ago, I did see some Mars Attacks promos jump from around $8 to over 40 in less than five seconds but I used to see bigger jumps than that. It seems like a lot of stuff doesn't sell for weeks-months.

That brings me to your last note about the Best Offer option. I have thought about what an acceptable BO would be and figured asking for a 50% discount is kind of an insult though I'm sure it has been floated out there many times. I usually ask for something like 20%. I did take a chance at asking to pay $20 for a card offered at $30, thinking I was pushing it at that. The seller countered at $25 but I though it was too high for the card and declined the counteroffer thanking the seller for considering it, adding that the card was certainly rare and wished him luck. He got back to me and said he'd take the $20.


quote:
Originally posted by Kevin F:
There is another aspect or two to all of this that need to be taken into consideration. The various changes eBay have made to their fees have made it an increasingly bad idea to list anything as an auction. As a result, the vast majority of items listed on eBay are now Buy-It-Now (BIN) with Best Offer. Add to that, a number of big sellers (including at least one here in the UK) always list a large number of items as auctions with a 99p/99c starting price the day new card sets are released. As a result, anyone else who tries to run an auction listing starting at anything higher than a 99p/99c starting price simply doesn't get any bids at all.

For small sellers, the solution is to simply never, ever use auction listings. But for newcomers, in particular, they don't realise this until after a few of their listings end with a single 99p bid.

As a seller, I have never refused to sell something because it did not reach what I thought was an acceptable price when listed as an auction. But I'm perfectly happy to decline Best Offers that I consider unacceptable Smile
 
Posts: 1205 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of <<<<ALDO_NOVA>>>>
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I've stopped buying on e-bay, got ripped-off too many times, as the site treats the sellers like gods and the buyers like you know what! Amazon is another place I've stopped buying as well, their sellers are just as crooked! Bought 4 "Ghost Whisperer trading card pack boxes" but got 4 sets wrapped in saran wrap in a box! Sent them back, did not get my money back, even though I told them about the seller and her crooked ad! She got to keep my money, re-sold the "packs" to some other foolish buyer and I stopped buying there!
 
Posts: 217 | Location: Where you can't find me!!!!!! | Registered: August 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
Just as a closer on this the seller who refused to send me my item has now got a negative on his account and his seller rating has been reduced to 75% by ebay.

I just hope he thinks it was worth it, i certainly never wanted anything like this to happen.


That's the best you can do. I know it bites but try to remember that even when we get messed over as buyers like this . . . in the end we really didn't lose anything if the seller refuses to honor the sale and there is that negative feedback which can sting (i personally have never been able to leave negative because sellers have always owned up on it for me).

I disagree that Ebay favors the seller, I certainly feel it favors the buyer.

I have learned not to do auctions anymore, almost always do "Buy It Not." Things don't actually go up like they used to unless they are really in demand.

I have three stories as a seller.

1) I did accidentally list some legos with free shipping a few weeks ago. A buyer bought both (i don't blame them). I honored the auction even though I sweated it for a couple hours. Sometimes Ebay templates are bogus, I could swear they auto. offer free shipping. I considered taking the feedback hit but ult. decided against it because I just felt it was right to honor the auction (that and I did want to clear some space bad).

2) A person in IL claiming to be a grandmother won a large star wars toy off of me. She tried to add in shipping conditions and all sorts of things (at my cost). She even started threatening that she'd claim the item didn't arrive (i mean this person was NUTS, never encountered insanity like it online before). I stressed over it for a night and suddenly realized there was no way she could make me send the item and there was no way I was going to after she threatened to mess me over even if I fell for her tactics.

I called Ebay, showed them the emails (always show them emails if another user gets "harsh") showed them the threats and got out of the whole arrangement and they even took away the users negative feedback (which she said she'd leave) because she'd violated rules. They allegedly gave her a strike but she's still buying stuff (i blocked her and she's on a list so I can check in on her now and then) occasionally I can tell from feedback she still plays these "games" but Ebay lets her continue.

I'd rather buy something and the seller flakes then sell something to someone like that, if she hadn't threatened to leave the feedback like she had I think I would have had to take the negative feedback.

Side note, feedback seems to be worthless anyway. Doesn't it all go away in 3 or so months anyway?

3) Then there was this UK buyer that bought toys off me. He opened a dispute as soon as he could and calmly said the toys were bootlegs (shoot Toys R Us sells bootlegs, who knew?). His calm approach to it may as well have been him saying "I'm lying!" I was able to back up that my stuff was legit while he never offered proof of how they were counterfeit so I got my money back (but he got the goods) even if I did have to wait x number of days for over $100 to unfreeze on Paypal.

Eh, anyways my point is sellers don't have it easy either.
 
Posts: 5 | Location: Maryland | Registered: July 11, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Just for the record, eBay feedback is there for 12 months. Same for the Star Ratings. So negative feedback hangs around for quite a long time.

Feedback for buyers is worthless because it can only ever be positive as sellers can only post positive feedback or nothing at all.
 
Posts: 1319 | Location: Warrington, UK | Registered: January 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Hedgehog Witch
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eBay have an automated way of rating sellers for how many stars they get and somehow being able to grade "Top" sellers. I wish there was an automated grading of buyers.

With most items only being sold with Paypal as the payment method, it electronically acknowledges payment and the date it was paid. Surely they could put in an automated scale for buyers, for those that pay within 3-5 days, or rate lower if it's longer or unpaid. I know there will always be someone that the ratings would work against, and those where a lack of internet connection prevents payment in one or two cases, but at least sellers would have a hint whether they've got a possible serial problem buyer. And eBay would be able to remove buyers that are always causing trouble.
Hmm, I doubt it would ever happen, but it was just a thought. Smile
 
Posts: 281 | Location: UK | Registered: March 13, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of tangent
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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog Witch:
eBay have an automated way of rating sellers for how many stars they get and somehow being able to grade "Top" sellers. I wish there was an automated grading of buyers.

With most items only being sold with Paypal as the payment method, it electronically acknowledges payment and the date it was paid. Surely they could put in an automated scale for buyers, for those that pay within 3-5 days, or rate lower if it's longer or unpaid. I know there will always be someone that the ratings would work against, and those where a lack of internet connection prevents payment in one or two cases, but at least sellers would have a hint whether they've got a possible serial problem buyer. And eBay would be able to remove buyers that are always causing trouble.
Hmm, I doubt it would ever happen, but it was just a thought. Smile


It's not the time to pay that I want to know about - it's the proportion of times that the buyer claims the package gets 'lost'. Sure, mail does get lost but if the general level is something like 1% and some particular buyer has 10% go missing, that buyer is ripping people off.

____________________
Trade list (mostly comics and scifi). Also lots of sketch cards.
 
Posts: 1573 | Location: temp UK, usually Australia | Registered: July 31, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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I remember getting negative feedback once in the early-mid 2000's. I sold something and the buyer never paid after a couple of weeks. He kept giving me excuses. I think it was $15. Finally, I felt I had to give him negative feedback but then he did it to me. He didn't have any grounds for it. The weird thing was it disappeared maybe two years after I had stopped selling.

I never understood making a bid with no intention of paying if the item was won. It can't be "sticking it to The Man" (can it?) because most people selling on Ebay even now are still just getting rid of extra stuff, making some extra money but maybe that's part of it. I can see some emergency happening (you or a friend/relative suffers a sudden accident/illness) pulling you away from lesser-priority business but most of the time it's just somebody being irresponsible.

There is a note in the My Ebay page that usually shows when a package has been delivered (mailman/UPS person scans the package before he drops it off). Sometimes, the item arrives even when it doesn't show. It's the honor system at that point and we seem to be living at a time when the honor system is less-often followed.
 
Posts: 1205 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I always read through peoples feedback when I buy something or before accepting a best offer.
So whatever you write there is very important to me.
Negative feedback doesnt show after a year. I just came across this today, had some nice game of thrones cards to bid on, but was suspicious that the price was high and loads of bids way before the item was due to end. Sure enough looking at the bids 2 newly joined zero feedback guys where bidding the items up. When I checked through his 100% positive feedback, nothing sold for a year and lots of neg and neutral feedback more than a year old.

So keep writing that feedback saves me from poor buyers and sellers.
 
Posts: 91 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: June 13, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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