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Just when you thought you had seen it all
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Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
posted
Autograph card cut up to make an autograph card.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Termi...a:g:8Z8AAOSw2sJa5ahY
 
Posts: 3341 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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This card will be from an Unstoppable set. They do this with a lot of cut autograph cards often using cards from one of their own previous sets they had left over.

____________________
Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
 
Posts: 28275 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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Very common practice to cut up a cheap or cheaper certified autograph card to make a supposedly higher priced cut signature card. Best part for the card maker is that they don't even have to have a third party authenticate because the original card was certified.
 
Posts: 8059 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
This card will be from an Unstoppable set. They do this with a lot of cut autograph cards often using cards from one of their own previous sets they had left over.


Yeah but this sig is from a $10 Inkworks card. Looney Tunes BIA. Wink

I have seen where they cut up a purchased document or photo for cards but this is the first time I have seen a card cut to make a card. I also saw a Linda Hamilton from this set that I am pretty sure is an Americana card.

Looking at it makes my eye twitch a little.
 
Posts: 3341 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
posted Hide Post
I hate it when one collectible is cut up to make another. . . this includes cut comics, prop and relic cards, etc.

This may be one of the worst looking and most obvious examples.

I always shake my head when I see an Emilia Clarke cut from GOT . . . all I can see is the 258 West Card that was cut up to make it. . . Obviously the manufacturer knows what they are doing though the cut sells for about 10X what the original is worth.

Arnold's cut signature from Conan is cut from Skybox Mr. Freeze autograph cards.
 
Posts: 4587 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
I hate it when one collectible is cut up to make another. . . this includes cut comics, prop and relic cards, etc.

This may be one of the worst looking and most obvious examples.

I always shake my head when I see an Emilia Clarke cut from GOT . . . all I can see is the 258 West Card that was cut up to make it. . . Obviously the manufacturer knows what they are doing though the cut sells for about 10X what the original is worth.

Arnold's cut signature from Conan is cut from Skybox Mr. Freeze autograph cards.


Those Skybox Batman sigs were pretty rare to begin with. Not to mention the insane insert ratio.

I bothers me especially when they are taking a cheap card and putting it in a low numbered edition to add some manufactured rarity to it. I don't get what collectors see in em.
 
Posts: 3341 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
I bothers me especially when they are taking a cheap card and putting it in a low numbered edition to add some manufactured rarity to it. I don't get what collectors see in em.


Sometimes what they see is an association with a better license or title. Like an upgrade.

The 258 West cards were signed by Emilia Clarke before Game of Thrones became a big hit. The value of those cards did go up accordingly, so they are no longer cheap themselves. However they are not part of an official GoT product and they show a candid picture having nothing to do with her character on the show. RA slices off the autograph portion, mounts it on an official GoT licensed and limited card with her in costume and viola. It does go from $200 to $1000 - $2000.

The Mr. Freeze card was a tough pull and it was a closer call to cut that one up, but the movie stunk. Collectors would probably rather have a licensed cut with Arnie in his iconic Conan role. The Almanac book difference isn't that much. The Batman card is $200 - $400 and the Conan $400 - $600. Still the cut lists for more.

For myself, I think only the autograph of a deceased person should be made into a cut, with two possible exceptions. There are a few living persons, like Sean Connery as an example, who will never sign certified cards. Also sometimes signed cards or documents become damaged to the point of not being collectible material, but the autographs are in good condition. To use a good signature from something that has become useless is OK to me too. Otherwise a cut from a living, signing person or someone who you know will be signing eventually is unnecessary and not worth more than any on-card autograph to me.
 
Posts: 8059 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:

I bothers me especially when they are taking a cheap card and putting it in a low numbered edition to add some manufactured rarity to it. I don't get what collectors see in em.


Totally agree. . .

It also drives me insane when I see a card that originally had a great clean autograph get cut down, and cut off to fit on to another card. . .



A lot of the Momoa cuts in RA are cut off too. . .



Hypocritically I don't really mind seeing cut signatures from signed books or signed checks (unless the checks are somehow historic).
 
Posts: 4587 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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Another example of the continued manufacturer/collector obsession with auto cards ruining the hobby. If I wanted autos i'd collect autos. That's another thing. Next up: relic cards that are cut up trading cards from the 1930s-1960s.

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Studio-Hades
http://www.studio-hades.com
 
Posts: 555 | Location: AZ | Registered: December 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Studio-Hades:
Another example of the continued manufacturer/collector obsession with auto cards ruining the hobby. If I wanted autos i'd collect autos. That's another thing. Next up: relic cards that are cut up trading cards from the 1930s-1960s.


I can't agree with the "ruining the hobby" statement. After the implosion of mass production in the 90's card companies had to re-invent things a bit. I can agree that the rise of the chase card in general certainly ruined the concept of the base set.

There are many ways that people collect autographs, if you list the pros and cons of each method I find the card company autographs fall in line with the type of collection that I want to have. It's not perfect by any means but I like it.
 
Posts: 3341 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:

Sometimes what they see is an association with a better license or title. Like an upgrade.


Yeah, especially with on card sigs I would much rather have the card that the celebrity physically touched. I would place this below sticker sigs in my list of desirability.

Not only are they generally a mess, but it lets me know that the card company took a cheap and sub standard route to sell me cards at a premium price.

quote:
Originally posted by webjon:

Hypocritically I don't really mind seeing cut signatures from signed books or signed checks (unless the checks are somehow historic).


I think I agree, I only have a couple of these but if I really wanted a cut sig in a card the check thing works for me. Although checks are becoming a dying method. Razz

I am pretty happy with the Jack Haley sig that came in the Breygent Wizard of Oz release.
 
Posts: 3341 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Gold Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Studio-Hades:
Another example of the continued manufacturer/collector obsession with auto cards ruining the hobby.


I'm curious how this ruins the hobby -- I mean if your not an autograph collector why would you care if other autographs are butchered for new autographs?

Also if it weren't for autographs, sketches and other hits I don't think there would be much of a hobby anymore outside of sticker cards and sets aimed squarely at children. Those sets do exist.
 
Posts: 4587 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Studio-Hades:
Another example of the continued manufacturer/collector obsession with auto cards ruining the hobby. If I wanted autos i'd collect autos. That's another thing. Next up: relic cards that are cut up trading cards from the 1930s-1960s.


Autograph cards seeded with good odds are what revitalized the hobby for old card collectors and kept it going for new card collectors. They are also the safest and most reliable method for autograph collectors to collect authenticate signatures. They are the most in demand of all the premium hits.

They are not worth a fortune. No autograph card is worth a fortune. They have a price range and price ceiling that should be obvious.

What has damaged the hobby is stupid people with stupid money who have tainted the pool and made it harder for a sane person to build the kind of collection they enjoy because card makers and card sellers are in it to make as much as they can. It's not even a matter of not being able to afford something. It's why would you want to afford it? Excessive cost should negate buyer desire and then makers and sellers will know they went too far. As long as it sells, the price will go up. It's in the hands of the collectors, with or without autographs.

But the hobby is not ruined. The cards are better than ever. The autographs are better than ever. The premium hits are better than ever. And the inventory on eBay alone can keep a card collector with a good eye occupied for years and years. Anyone who wants to spend a paycheck on an autograph card is welcome to it as far as I'm concerned.
 
Posts: 8059 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
Picture of mykdude
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:

They are not worth a fortune. No autograph card is worth a fortune. They have a price range and price ceiling that should be obvious.

What has damaged the hobby is stupid people with stupid money who have tainted the pool and made it harder for a sane person to build the kind of collection they enjoy because card makers and card sellers are in it to make as much as they can.


I get what you are saying and as someone who is closing in on the end of an extensive "want" list I have learned much about patience and waiting for the right seller at the right time. Far too often cards are locked down in someones forever ebay store at a ridiculous price trolling the line for a desperate or uninformed buyer.

Still, I wonder where do you place the rarity of many autograph cards and value? I think of the Vin Diesel card in CoR or the Jeff Bridges card in Iron Man. Individuals with a fan base in the millions while only a couple of hundred licensed autograph cards exist. Granted, I understand the supply and demand part of it, but it is not very difficult to see the potential either.

What about cards like Lena Headey's season two GoT and the quality of that sig over much of her subsequent ones? Or Zoe Saldana where her signature has dropped down to initials? From the purest autograph collector point of view I would again think the value potential and gap between signature quality levels could also go a bit crazy.

Is the price of a card ridiculous because it blows way past your budget or is it really super inflated? On the flip side, I see many cards go for under $20 bucks that surprise me they aren't worth more.
 
Posts: 3341 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Still, I wonder where do you place the rarity of many autograph cards and value? I think of the Vin Diesel card in CoR or the Jeff Bridges card in Iron Man. Individuals with a fan base in the millions while only a couple of hundred licensed autograph cards exist. Granted, I understand the supply and demand part of it, but it is not very difficult to see the potential either.


I've been thinking this for years, a lot of these cards are produced in tiny quantities compared to the fan base size. I always relate it back to the number of states in the US -- if there are 200 autographs that means that 4 fans in each state can have that autograph. If there are 1000 autograph (considered a HUGE production run in the hobby) that means 20 collectors in each state can own one of the autographs/cards.


quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
On the flip side, I see many cards go for under $20 bucks that surprise me they aren't worth more.


I think we should create an undervalued autograph thread. . .

My first entry: I can't believe that you can buy a Jennifer Hudson autograph on eBay right now for $6. She's won an Oscar, Grammy, she's pretty young and still relevant. $6!!! She actually has a sub-page on Wikipedia for all the awards she's won and been nominated for:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...d_by_Jennifer_Hudson

$6 -- or best offer even!!
 
Posts: 4587 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
This card will be from an Unstoppable set. They do this with a lot of cut autograph cards often using cards from one of their own previous sets they had left over.


Yeah, this. They've been doing it for ages.
 
Posts: 744 | Location: England | Registered: August 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
A lot of the Momoa cuts in RA are cut off too. . .


Those Momoa cuts are from his Conan The Barbarian set, also on Rittenhouse. It's why there are so many around by comparison.
 
Posts: 744 | Location: England | Registered: August 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Platinum Card Talk Member
Picture of Raven
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:

They are not worth a fortune. No autograph card is worth a fortune. They have a price range and price ceiling that should be obvious.

What has damaged the hobby is stupid people with stupid money who have tainted the pool and made it harder for a sane person to build the kind of collection they enjoy because card makers and card sellers are in it to make as much as they can.


I get what you are saying and as someone who is closing in on the end of an extensive "want" list I have learned much about patience and waiting for the right seller at the right time. Far too often cards are locked down in someones forever ebay store at a ridiculous price trolling the line for a desperate or uninformed buyer.

Still, I wonder where do you place the rarity of many autograph cards and value? I think of the Vin Diesel card in CoR or the Jeff Bridges card in Iron Man. Individuals with a fan base in the millions while only a couple of hundred licensed autograph cards exist. Granted, I understand the supply and demand part of it, but it is not very difficult to see the potential either.

What about cards like Lena Headey's season two GoT and the quality of that sig over much of her subsequent ones? Or Zoe Saldana where her signature has dropped down to initials? From the purest autograph collector point of view I would again think the value potential and gap between signature quality levels could also go a bit crazy.

Is the price of a card ridiculous because it blows way past your budget or is it really super inflated? On the flip side, I see many cards go for under $20 bucks that surprise me they aren't worth more.


Oh yeah, all true, but no to that last question. My budget is not the reason I don't buy certain cards. I often can, I just won't. It's hard to cover a broad subject in a short post, and certainly there are autograph cards that do cost more and deserve to cost more, but when I said stupid people with stupid money I wasn't talking about my budget. I was talking about priorities and about what is a hobby and how the money changes everything.

There is another thread on Card Talk that is about a $400,000 Tom Brady graded and signed rookie card. I'm sorry, but that is insanity. If I had the money, why would I buy it? That's my point. That kind of card is the extreme of course, but average collectors are buying $500 and over cards that were just released with artificial rarity built in. And if it's not in their budget, they are getting depressed and feel left behind and that their hobby is being ruined.

I'm just saying, no it's not ruined. It's only ruined if you do it to yourself. So you can't keep up with someone who wants to spend $10,000 a month on cards. You shouldn't want to, it's stupid. So the autograph card is $2,000 out of the box, don't sweat it, let them have it, it's stupid.

And by all means look for those cards that are under valued, have potential, show something special that you like, cards that you enjoy to own not just because someone else said they were hot today, but because it makes sense to you. If you were to discount market pricing altogether, how many cards are really worth over $500 to you? Use that standard and you'll feel better about letting someone else spend their money. When enough people realize it, prices will eventually come back to Earth on a lot of this inflated stuff.
 
Posts: 8059 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:


My first entry: I can't believe that you can buy a Jennifer Hudson autograph on eBay right now for $6.



That does not show up on any search i do on ebay.

____________________
Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
 
Posts: 28275 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gold Card Talk Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
quote:
Originally posted by webjon:


My first entry: I can't believe that you can buy a Jennifer Hudson autograph on eBay right now for $6.



That does not show up on any search i do on ebay.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-...JH-Mint/283501713992
 
Posts: 4587 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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