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Fake? Is my Jericho autograph card from (Sprague Grayden) fake?
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Picture of Nicole_oncer
posted
Hi Everyone,

I've been collection autographs through mail and conventions for many years now. But I just started recently with buying these autograph cards.
So far so good. Until I received an autograph card from the Tv-show Jericho signed by Sprague Grayden. The autograph itself looks good, seems like a real signature not printed and matches hers. Silver mark on the front looks good to. However, I got 2 things that trouble me with this card...

1) The card is not as thick as the other cards I received so far (all none Jericho related though)

2) It doesn't have the inkworks watermarks on the back. Nothing like the Alias autograph card I have from Inkworks. Do all Inkworks cards have these watermarks on the back?

I don't have other Jericho autograph cards so can't compare the thickness or check for the watermark.

So I really hope you can help me out.
 
Posts: 26 | Location: The Netherlands  | Registered: March 04, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Your best bet is going to be to compare the card to another card from the set -- it is difficult do to online.

Cards from different sets varied in thickness.

The Inkworks watermark was not use consistently, some legitimate cards do not have a watermark, and some questionable cards do have it.

I don't recall having previously heard about this card being faked, for what little that is worth.
 
Posts: 4518 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raven
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I don't have that card, but I have the A1 Skeet Ulrich. It is a normally thin card and there is no watermark. It has the silver Inkworks seal in the card design.

As long as you have her "A#" Inkworks autograph card, I don't know what number that was, and not some personally signed Jericho base card, it is extremely unlikely that you have a fake. I would say impossible, but of course nothing is really impossible. Big Grin

From a practical standpoint, who would go through the trouble of not only faking the autograph, but also counterfeiting the card, for something of such small value? That auto books between $8 - $20. Sometimes there are past periods of greater value when a card might look attractive to a forger, but that's not the case here. This is a common autograph from a show that had only moderate interest years ago. I'm sure she has fans and may be undervalued, but there is no reason to think anyone believes they can make money faking her autographs.

Sometimes that's the best protection. It has to be real because there is no demand for fakes. Wink
 
Posts: 7742 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Nicole_oncer
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:

Cards from different sets varied in thickness.

The Inkworks watermark was not use consistently,

Okay I didn't know that. I thought all inkworks had that watermark on the back. Thank you for telling me this.

quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
I don't have that card, but I have the A1 Skeet Ulrich. It is a normally thin card and there is no watermark. It has the silver Inkworks seal in the card design.

As long as you have her "A#" Inkworks autograph card, I don't know what number that was, and not some personally signed Jericho base card, it is extremely unlikely that you have a fake. I would say impossible, but of course nothing is really impossible. Big Grin

From a practical standpoint, who would go through the trouble of not only faking the autograph, but also counterfeiting the card, for something of such small value? That auto books between $8 - $20. Sometimes there are past periods of greater value when a card might look attractive to a forger, but that's not the case here. This is a common autograph from a show that had only moderate interest years ago. I'm sure she has fans and may be undervalued, but there is no reason to think anyone believes they can make money faking her autographs.

Sometimes that's the best protection. It has to be real because there is no demand for fakes. Wink


Wow you got Skeet! Amazing!
Yes that was my thought to. Why would anyone fake hers. The card has value to me but not much value on the market. Didn't seem like someone would put so much effort in making a fake card that looks so real. I also have the silver seal which looks good. New with collecting these cards but not so much autographs. I can easily catch fake pre/reprints and such. This looks good. But I was worried about the watermark. Thank you. She is A3 ☺
 
Posts: 26 | Location: The Netherlands  | Registered: March 04, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you stick to the manufacturer produced certified autograph cards you will stand the best chance of guaranteed authenticity. It isn't absolute as you know. Mistakes can happen with signers and sometimes there might be counterfeits, if it is a more valuable card, so buying from a reliable source is important too.

Still it's your best bet overall and its a great time to catch up on older certified autograph cards and find bargains too. For TV shows like Jericho, Dome, Dead Zone and others like them, you can complete the whole autograph checklist fairly cheaply. Very difficult to do that with any big titles. Hope you enjoy your search and welcome to Card Talk. Smile
 
Posts: 7742 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Nicole_oncer
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
If you stick to the manufacturer produced certified autograph cards you will stand the best chance of guaranteed authenticity. It isn't absolute as you know. Mistakes can happen with signers and sometimes there might be counterfeits, if it is a more valuable card, so buying from a reliable source is important too.

Still it's your best bet overall and its a great time to catch up on older certified autograph cards and find bargains too. For TV shows like Jericho, Dome, Dead Zone and others like them, you can complete the whole autograph checklist fairly cheaply. Very difficult to do that with any big titles. Hope you enjoy your search and welcome to Card Talk. Smile


Thank so much for your advice and for welcoming me! Yes so far it has been amazing buying these cards from my favorite shows (some older like Heroes, Jericho, Alias, Charmed)
 
Posts: 26 | Location: The Netherlands  | Registered: March 04, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I compared some Jericho autographs to Alias autographs and the Jericho cards are noticeably thinner.

Also not a single Jericho card I checked had an Inkworks watermark.
 
Posts: 4518 | Location: Parts Unknown. | Registered: January 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Nicole_oncer,

Welcome to Card Talk. There are a lot of Inkworks cards collectors here. You can do a search for "Inkworks" or any of the titles using the "Find" function. I hope you continue to enjoy your time here.

Jess


quote:
Originally posted by Nicole_oncer:
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
If you stick to the manufacturer produced certified autograph cards you will stand the best chance of guaranteed authenticity. It isn't absolute as you know. Mistakes can happen with signers and sometimes there might be counterfeits, if it is a more valuable card, so buying from a reliable source is important too.

Still it's your best bet overall and its a great time to catch up on older certified autograph cards and find bargains too. For TV shows like Jericho, Dome, Dead Zone and others like them, you can complete the whole autograph checklist fairly cheaply. Very difficult to do that with any big titles. Hope you enjoy your search and welcome to Card Talk. Smile


Thank so much for your advice and for welcoming me! Yes so far it has been amazing buying these cards from my favorite shows (some older like Heroes, Jericho, Alias, Charmed)
 
Posts: 1286 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Also need to consider that faking cards takes some effort. Can't think of much justification or desire to fake a Sprague card.

Inkworks went through different levels of quality. I picked up a Rock autograph from Scorpion King several years ago and was a little freaked at how thin it felt. I picked up a cheaper Bernard Hill just to make sure all of the auto cards were that thin. They were. :-)
 
Posts: 3200 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Nicole_oncer
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quote:
Originally posted by webjon:
I compared some Jericho autographs to Alias autographs and the Jericho cards are noticeably thinner.

Also not a single Jericho card I checked had an Inkworks watermark.


The Alias card is indeed really thick and the Jericho card is really thin.
I also have cards from Rittenhouse, Breygent, Cryptozic but none are as thin as the Jericho card LOL


quote:
Originally posted by catskilleagle:
Hi Nicole_oncer,

Welcome to Card Talk. There are a lot of Inkworks cards collectors here. You can do a search for "Inkworks" or any of the titles using the "Find" function. I hope you continue to enjoy your time here.

Jess


Thank You Jess. I def will!

quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Inkworks went through different levels of quality. I picked up a Rock autograph from Scorpion King several years ago and was a little freaked at how thin it felt. I picked up a cheaper Bernard Hill just to make sure all of the auto cards were that thin. They were. :-)


LoL yes the same here. I totally forgot that Bernard was in Scorpion King! I just checked.. his card is indeed really cheap! I might consider buying it. Although I just met him at a convention and had him sign a Lord of The Rings photo (my favorite movie) So for now I rather collect the autograph cards from actors that I don't have in my collection yet.
 
Posts: 26 | Location: The Netherlands  | Registered: March 04, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of aeolus14ummbra
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Hi Nicole - welcome to the NSU CardTalk Forum! I’m a HUGE Jericho fan and have a Master Set of the Inkworks product, so if you ever have any questions concerning that specific product, I’d be happy to help you out. In addition to that set, I’ve made it a point to personally collect cast autographs on both cards and photos; in fact, my Jericho collection currently includes well over 150 autographs (with only a very few exceptions) in which I’ve managed to amass signatures from just about all of the major and supporting cast members, creators, and production staff. A lot of the signatures I either received in person, or received through the mail via a personal request. Others are “authenticated” autos from non-Jericho trading card products and similar. I even have actual screen used props and complete costume pieces from the show. Like I said, I like the show! Best of luck as you build your Jericho collection!
 
Posts: 214 | Location: Dallas, TX USA | Registered: July 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Picture of Nicole_oncer
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quote:
Originally posted by aeolus14ummbra:
Hi Nicole - welcome to the NSU CardTalk Forum! I’m a HUGE Jericho fan and have a Master Set of the Inkworks product, so if you ever have any questions concerning that specific product, I’d be happy to help you out. In addition to that set, I’ve made it a point to personally collect cast autographs on both cards and photos; in fact, my Jericho collection currently includes well over 150 autographs (with only a very few exceptions) in which I’ve managed to amass signatures from just about all of the major and supporting cast members, creators, and production staff. A lot of the signatures I either received in person, or received through the mail via a personal request. Others are “authenticated” autos from non-Jericho trading card products and similar. I even have actual screen used props and complete costume pieces from the show. Like I said, I like the show! Best of luck as you build your Jericho collection!


Wow what a huge collection! Anywhere I can see it online? So far I have only 2 from Jericho. Sprague and Lennie (met him in London last summer)The autographs I really love to own are Skeet and Ashley. I have seen though that the inkwork cards from them are really expensive. Hopefully I can meet Skeet someday at a convention (he seems to attend to a lot of them these days) As for Ashley it might be more difficult. I don't think she replies to fanmail anymore does she? I wish I started watching Jericho a little sooner so I could have gotten their autographs through mail.

Btw this is my website with my autograph collection (not updated yet with my latest autographs & autograph inkwork cards) But most of my collection.

https://nicoleinmagicwonderlan...blr.com/myautographs
 
Posts: 26 | Location: The Netherlands  | Registered: March 04, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mykdude
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicole_oncer:

Wow what a huge collection! Anywhere I can see it online? So far I have only 2 from Jericho. Sprague and Lennie (met him in London last summer)The autographs I really love to own are Skeet and Ashley. I have seen though that the inkwork cards from them are really expensive. Hopefully I can meet Skeet someday at a convention (he seems to attend to a lot of them these days) As for Ashley it might be more difficult. I don't think she replies to fanmail anymore does she? I wish I started watching Jericho a little sooner so I could have gotten their autographs through mail.


Of course the term of what is expensive varies between each person.

The Ashley and Skeet sigs can be had for under $50 if you keep an eye on the auctions. A typical con you will spend much more than that just to get there.

I remember getting my Skeet a couple years ago for about $30. The show not being around anymore actually helps in lowering the cost until the hobby deems the card rare or highly sought after. Often you won't see auto cards selling for the really high prices being asked. The seller is just trolling.


TTM's are not authenticated so there is roughly a $20 cost for that plus what was spent getting the item to and from the celebrity in the first place. I am part of a facebook group that engages in a lot of TTM and I have not seen either Skeet or Ashley. I did TTM years ago and had some good success but ultimately decided that I was going focus my collection on just authenticated autograph cards from the manufacturer. Some 20 years later and I have about 1500 of em. Wink
 
Posts: 3200 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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TTM signatures and personally obtained autographs are great for private collections. They are often our favorite signed items, especially if we got to meet the celebrity in the process. However they are not legacy collections, and by that I mean, it is incredibly disappointing to try to sell uncertified autographs, even when you know they are 100% authentic.

Its a combination of having a demand for the signature and then being able to provide some sort of proof of authenticity.

The only demand is for the biggest names that are the lest likely to be signing TTM because of the volume of mail that they receive. Then you have to compete against the cheap fakes, pre-prints and forgeries that flood the internet sites and the third party certified signatures that are way more expensive, but often look like the same thing.

TTM is a nice pastime, but you have to be realistic about value. Taking this topic's subject as an example, if Sprague Grayden's Jericho certified autograph card can be bought for say $10, what would her uncertified TTM signature on a Jericho base card fetch? A buck or two at most if you found a huge fan. Its value wouldn't be much more than the S&H cost of completing the transaction, if anyone wanted it.

The only valid justification for buying uncertified autographs, with great care, is when manufacturer certified autograph cards don't exist for that person. If you mix certified and uncertified autograph cards in your collection, you are lowering the overall value of your collection should you go to sell it. That's just a fact.
 
Posts: 7742 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Raven:

and the third party certified signatures



Every autograph card in every hobby box is a third party certified signature.

____________________
Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
 
Posts: 28099 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:

and the third party certified signatures



Every autograph card in every hobby box is a third party certified signature.


Not really. The wording on the back of certified autograph cards changes depending on what years it was made, what company manufactured it, what the signing process was, cut, sticker and so forth. Sometimes the wording even expressly says that authenticity is the signer's responsibility, like that will absolve them. Big Grin But the presumption is still that the card maker is certifying the autograph by virtue of having it in their product and the maker is embarrassed and usually tries to make good on those occasions when their signature card has a problem.

Third party authentication doesn't generally refer to card makers themselves, although they sometimes bring in other people or companies to provide the service for them. PSA and Beckett are probably the top grading services that also provide signature authentication, but unless the card is slabbed or a separate numbered COA is offered, card makers could be using anyone. That part they don't say.

Anyway, my shorthand is to always consider a certified autograph card to be the card maker's guarantee and I don't regard them as third party authenticators because they farm that service out when they need it. For many of these certified cards they don't do anything. They just take the word of the signer, who is being paid to do a certain number of signatures. It's not a perfect system, but it does work nearly all the time. Of course when it doesn't, that's when you hear about it. Wink
 
Posts: 7742 | Location: New York | Registered: November 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To collect TTM autographs is a dying hobby. I did it for 13 years. Yes I got pre prints, sec's and autopens but also many authentic personalized autographs. I only collect autographs for myself and never put them for sale so that is not a problem. In the past lots of actors were great with fanmail. These days(most of them) no longer bother with fanmail. They think a comment or like on social media is enough. Very unpersonal if you ask me and you would never know if it was really them.. could be their mother, wife or assistant.

Conventions can be expensive, although in Europe they are still sort of affordable. Also, the fact you get to meet them, talk to them makes it worth the money. Also, the best autographs (for me) are the ones personalized. As much as I love these cards they don't have your name on it.

I don't like buying just regular autographs. I love these cards for their design and everything. They look fantastic in my binder! But I don't have any interest in buying just 8x10 pictures.

Yesterday I bought Evan Peters AHS card for 50 euro (shipping included) Did I pay too much for it? Or a good price? Love him in AHS and he is not someone who does a lot of conventions so I felt this was chance. I also saw a few on Ebay for 60 dollars but in USA. But with tax and everything that would cost me a lot of money.

Does anyone where I can buy these cards outside ebay? Any good stores?

Thanks everyone for the replies.
 
Posts: 26 | Location: The Netherlands  | Registered: March 04, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ebay is generally where I get everything. The Euro crossover with sellers in the states tends to add cost. Back when I was stationed in Italy and traveled around I would always keep my eyes open for hobby/card type stores. Like here there was a ton of gaming stuff and sports but non sports was sparse. Also it was quite a bit more than my Ebay source. Most cards stores and distributors I know also sell through ebay.

From my perspective you spent a bit too much for Evan. One sold in Jan for $20 (shipping included). I always monitor the sold listings unless I just decide I want the card too bad. Wait for true auctions or Best Offers if you want to save money. Not that 50 euro is terrible, it is a very limited card and there aren't that many of them out there.

Of course personalized pieces are a nice touch but for any long term value (if your collection is ever passed on) it does tend to hurt the bottom line.


quote:
Originally posted by Nicole_oncer:

Yesterday I bought Evan Peters AHS card for 50 euro (shipping included) Did I pay too much for it? Or a good price? Love him in AHS and he is not someone who does a lot of conventions so I felt this was chance. I also saw a few on Ebay for 60 dollars but in USA. But with tax and everything that would cost me a lot of money.

Does anyone where I can buy these cards outside ebay? Any good stores?

 
Posts: 3200 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: March 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Nicole_oncer
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quote:
Originally posted by mykdude:
Ebay is generally where I get everything. The Euro crossover with sellers in the states tends to add cost. Back when I was stationed in Italy and traveled around I would always keep my eyes open for hobby/card type stores. Like here there was a ton of gaming stuff and sports but non sports was sparse. Also it was quite a bit more than my Ebay source. Most cards stores and distributors I know also sell through ebay.

From my perspective you spent a bit too much for Evan. One sold in Jan for $20 (shipping included). I always monitor the sold listings unless I just decide I want the card too bad. Wait for true auctions or Best Offers if you want to save money. Not that 50 euro is terrible, it is a very limited card and there aren't that many of them out there.

Of course personalized pieces are a nice touch but for any long term value (if your collection is ever passed on) it does tend to hurt the bottom line.


Ahh that's too bad about Evan. But good tip for next time. How do I monitor sold listings? Just google it?
Yeah still a rare piece. I think a Asylum card is more rare then a Murder House card. Or at least it seems so because it's the only one I saw on Ebay from Evan and Asylum. The rest of the Evan cards were Murder House cards. Or is there no difference? Not that it doesn't matter to me. I mean it's an autograph from Evan in AHS.

I'm 33 years old so I don't think I will pass away anytime soon (LOL I hope not) I don't have childeren (don't think I ever will) My nieces can sell my other collections like my Lord of The Rings statues from Weta LOL when it happens
 
Posts: 26 | Location: The Netherlands  | Registered: March 04, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Never mind. Found out how to search on Ebay for sold listings Smile
 
Posts: 26 | Location: The Netherlands  | Registered: March 04, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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