Non-Sport Update's Card Talk
What Defines a Set?

This topic can be found at:
http://nonsportupdate.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/954605353/m/1467029296

March 22, 2020, 05:09 PM
Johnny Martyr
What Defines a Set?
I'm working on an article about the new Night of the Living Dead trading card set that's due out soon and wondered, what constitutes a set.

For example, there have been "sets" of Night of the Living Dead cards released which only consisted of 2 or three cards. They were not promos or chase cards associated with larger sets, just singles that were released alone.

What is the proper term for these? Are they a set?

Thanks for your thoughts!

____________________
Caretaker of the World's Largest Night of the Living Dead Trading Card Collection!
March 22, 2020, 08:40 PM
Raven
I have no universally accepted hobby answer to your question. I'm not sure there is one. I like to talk more in terms of products than set. You know what's in a product, but that may not be what constitutes a set. Just consider how we have agonized over what makes up a "master set" and what cards we can leave out of the master set, even though they are cards in the product. Got that? Don't worry, no one has ever figured it out. It's a matter of individual collector opinion.

To the question at hand, I would be hard pressed to call 2 cards a set. I would ask what the manufacturer calls them? I would ask if they are licensed? I would ask if there will be more or are they standalones? I would ask if they were released at the same time?

Technically, if they are licensed, released together and the maker choses to refer to 2 or 3 cards as a set, then I wouldn't argue the point, although I wouldn't think much of the effort either. Big Grin

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,
March 22, 2020, 10:50 PM
webjon
Yes from your description that would be a set.

Not all that different from the premium pack releases that have 9 or so cards to a set.
March 23, 2020, 12:10 AM
Logan
I would say if there is more than one card in a series then regardless of how high or low the number is they constitute a set.
March 23, 2020, 12:35 AM
catskilleagle
In the promo world when there is only one card promoting something, that card is considered a one card set. That term would also apply to a card product. Offhand, I can't think of a one or two card set that is a product. There was that sailing race hologram set by Lime Rock that was only three cards, I think. It's certainly unusual to have so few, but you might make some sales if it were a commemorative set for some special event.


quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Martyr:
I'm working on an article about the new Night of the Living Dead trading card set that's due out soon and wondered, what constitutes a set.

For example, there have been "sets" of Night of the Living Dead cards released which only consisted of 2 or three cards. They were not promos or chase cards associated with larger sets, just singles that were released alone.

What is the proper term for these? Are they a set?

Thanks for your thoughts!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: catskilleagle,
March 23, 2020, 12:03 PM
Raven
[QUOTE]Originally posted by catskilleagle:
In the promo world when there is only one card promoting something, that card is considered a one card set. Quote.

That's interesting, but I really wouldn't use "one card set" for a promo or any other single preview card or one off subject card. There has to be at least a connected pair at minimum, since a set is literally a grouping of something. If no group exists, how can you really call the solitary item a set?
March 23, 2020, 01:33 PM
catskilleagle
In his Promo Card Encyclopedia Todd referred to the one card promoting something as a "1-card set." Yes, a set implies more than one, but if you eat at a restaurant by yourself, you are referred to as a "party of one." A party certainly implies more than one person as well but people say it without really thinking about it.

Jess


quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by catskilleagle:
In the promo world when there is only one card promoting something, that card is considered a one card set. Quote.

That's interesting, but I really wouldn't use "one card set" for a promo or any other single preview card or one off subject card. There has to be at least a connected pair at minimum, since a set is literally a grouping of something. If no group exists, how can you really call the solitary item a set?

March 23, 2020, 01:48 PM
Raven
quote:
Originally posted by catskilleagle:
In his Promo Card Encyclopedia Todd referred to the one card promoting something as a "1-card set." Yes, a set implies more than one, but if you eat at a restaurant by yourself, you are referred to as a "party of one." A party certainly implies more than one person as well but people say it without really thinking about it.

Jess


quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by catskilleagle:
In the promo world when there is only one card promoting something, that card is considered a one card set. Quote.

That's interesting, but I really wouldn't use "one card set" for a promo or any other single preview card or one off subject card. There has to be at least a connected pair at minimum, since a set is literally a grouping of something. If no group exists, how can you really call the solitary item a set?


Hi Jess,

And that's why there are so few universally accepted hobby terms. We can't even agree on the words. Big Grin
March 23, 2020, 02:54 PM
wolfie
I would think that a set of something is a collection of all the cards released for that product. For some products that will be 120 cards and for others 3 but if that's all there is then that must be the set.

____________________
Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
March 23, 2020, 03:20 PM
Johnny Martyr
Thanks so much for the interesting takes on this topic! Good to know that it's a bit of a grey area and I wasn't just missing something.

I'm inclined to call the cards in question "sets," particularly in the case of NotLD where there was a two card set and a three card set which were intended to be autographed by cast/crew from the movie at conventions (the Living Dead Festival cards). Therefore there can be numerous same cards featuring different autographs, resulting in numbers that we could all agree on as being a set.

However there were also a two and three card set released that did not carry this purpose (Save the Chapel cards and 50th Anniversary cards).

I also wonder, if we didn't refer to cards like this as sets, what would we call them?

Thanks again!

____________________
Caretaker of the World's Largest Night of the Living Dead Trading Card Collection!
March 23, 2020, 05:56 PM
Raven
Well off-hand I can think of only one specific example, which most of us know. The Leonard Nimoy "Live Long and Prosper" autograph card that he distributed with his own tee shirt sales. It is a licensed RA card given to him for his purposes and it was never part of any Star Trek card set.

It has come to be called simply the "Live Long and Prosper" card because the picture is of Nimoy doing the Spock hand signal and that's also what it says on the back of the card.

I have never heard anyone even suggest that this might be called a one-card set. So I guess if I could think of any other examples of single only cards, I would try to call them whatever is closest to a name or title that would identify them.

There have been promo cards that were created for sets that were never produced. If it were a 4 or 5 card spread, they should be called "XX" promo set. But if it were only a single promo card, I would call it "XX" promo and leave out any reference to a set.

That's about the best I can come up with. Big Grin

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven,
March 24, 2020, 04:09 AM
catskilleagle
And that's the thing, what else would you call the army of one that is the one card set? Raven brought up the Leonard Nimoy card. If you call it a one card set, you are letting collectors know that there are no others.

Jess


quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Martyr:
Thanks so much for the interesting takes on this topic! Good to know that it's a bit of a grey area and I wasn't just missing something.

I'm inclined to call the cards in question "sets," particularly in the case of NotLD where there was a two card set and a three card set which were intended to be autographed by cast/crew from the movie at conventions (the Living Dead Festival cards). Therefore there can be numerous same cards featuring different autographs, resulting in numbers that we could all agree on as being a set.

However there were also a two and three card set released that did not carry this purpose (Save the Chapel cards and 50th Anniversary cards).

I also wonder, if we didn't refer to cards like this as sets, what would we call them?

Thanks again!

March 24, 2020, 05:35 AM
JOHN LEVITT
The original card set is the Marquis of Lorne card issued in 1879 by Thos H Hall cigarette Manufacturer of New York in their Marquis of Lorne Cigarettes. It is a 1 card set and is an Advertising card and is considered the very first Trading Card.The American Card Catalogue officially classifies it as N519. Apparently only 4 cards are known to exist as the cigarette brand at the time did not sell very well so it did not have a large printing. From what I remember, one of these cards was sold about 5 years ago for £11,000. I only know the whereabouts of one because it was owned by Wharton-Tiger who donated his very large collection of cigarette and trading cards to the British Museum. His collection also included the infamous Honus Wagner baseball card.

regards

John

____________________
March 24, 2020, 12:29 PM
Bill Mullins
"a set is literally a grouping of something"
"a set implies more than one"

Not necessarily. In math, set can have many, one or even no elements (the "null set").

So long as it's clear from context, there's no problem with a 1-card set.
March 24, 2020, 01:40 PM
Raven
How about a pair of shoes? Can one shoe be a pair? Let's consult a mathematician. Big Grin

Webster's - Set: (among other meanings) a group of persons or things of the same kind or having a common characteristic usu. classed together - a collection of things and esp. of mathematical elements (as numbers or points).

If you want to make up the term 1-card set fine, but the word set means more than one. Roll Eyes Thanks for starting this thread, it's hysterical. Big Grin
March 24, 2020, 02:06 PM
Johnny Martyr
quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
If you want to make up the term 1-card set fine, but the word set means more than one. Roll Eyes Thanks for starting this thread, it's hysterical. Big Grin


My question was about two and three cards of same theme which are not promos but glad you're entertained! Wink

____________________
Caretaker of the World's Largest Night of the Living Dead Trading Card Collection!
March 24, 2020, 03:08 PM
Raven
Yeah, that wasn't directed at you Johnny. These threads just evolve past the topic sometimes, but I hope you got your answer. Call anything you want a set. Big Grin

And I could use a lot of amusement. Wink
March 24, 2020, 04:35 PM
mykdude
And I thought a set was where I put my cards last. Razz
March 24, 2020, 06:43 PM
catskilleagle
Hi Raven,

One shoe cannot be a pair in any sense since it always means two. However, one shoe can be a set as in the case of having only one shoe to put on a pogo stick.

Your contention that a set cannot refer to one item simply because Webster's (dictionary) does not state that a set can contain one item would have to be rejected since Webster's dictionary also does not mention the null set, a set of zero items, which does exist as a term as noted by Bill. If a set can contain zero items or two items, we can conclude that it can also contain one item. Since you did not make a formal objection, you will not be formally overruled by the power vested in me by the current state of uncertainty.

As an added note, the English language is quite fluid allowing for words to shift in meaning and parts of speech to be modified into others. Furthermore, we have a precedent with the "Promo Card Encyclopedia" already listing one promo as a set going back over twenty years (a time when the publication was called "Promo Card Update." Therefore, the proposal of referring to one card as a set would have to be formally approved.

Jess


quote:
Originally posted by Raven:
How about a pair of shoes? Can one shoe be a pair? Let's consult a mathematician. Big Grin

Webster's - Set: (among other meanings) a group of persons or things of the same kind or having a common characteristic usu. classed together - a collection of things and esp. of mathematical elements (as numbers or points).

If you want to make up the term 1-card set fine, but the word set means more than one. Roll Eyes Thanks for starting this thread, it's hysterical. Big Grin

March 24, 2020, 08:11 PM
Raven
Hey Jess,

You got me. Far be it for me to disagree with the precedent set in the Promo Card Encyclopedia for one entry or the application of Intermediate Algebra to the definition of what makes up a non-sport card set. How could I have missed that?

I look forward to the day when someone offers a non-sport null set on eBay and makes a fortune. Bazinga. Big Grin